Smack My Bishop

Heh, big-ups to Heather for that one. Now, if she can just organise the mash-up for it I'll be truly happy.

BTW Heather if you're out there. A great month for the Hammers (not MC) and a nervous weekend coming up, no?

smack my bishop

ooohh, that's a bit rude

but I suspect that Neil Finn didn't mean his diss of the Prime Minister to come out quite like that.

Kind of you to say that. The prevailing opinion these days (esp amongst 'media' types) is that everyone should know that whatever they say will be reported and that someone...

Can't wait for Pitchfork Festival 2010...

not to mention guns n roses selling out in auckland. whats up with that?
west auckland has a lot to answer for

I worked with him on an advisory group that developed ideas for a potential network, and I endured a long and rather difficult phone conversation with him after he deemed me to be insufficiently committed to the vision.

Was this before you joined the Board of BFM, RB?

Imagine trying to pitch the idea that a few hours of Kiwi music would...

1) Why does anyone even try to make a living as a musician (or an artist, painter, writer etc. for that matter)? Masocihism, obsession, sheer...

not to mention guns n roses selling out in auckland. whats up with that? west auckland has a lot to answer for

I'd say the shore kids will be giving the westies a run for their money at that show.

One of the things I admire most about him is his ability to remain perfectly polite and approachable and funny during his interviews, yet still manage to...

But there is no doubt that the local industry is not as healthy as it was a...

Disclaimer, I had to say "Westie man" because Westie person was plain wrong mmmmkay?

1) Why does anyone even try to make a living as a musician (or an artist, painter, writer etc. for that matter)? Masocihism, obsession, sheer bloody-mindedness or all of the above?

because it's not about trying to make a living

Now, if she can just organise the mash-up for it I'll be truly happy.

The thought has crossed my mind.

A great month for the Hammers (not MC) and a nervous weekend coming up, no?

I refuse to feel any kind of excitement, dread,...

I'd also reckon that the community stations like RRR and PBS would be better off if they weren't effectively being poor brothers to JJJ.

god i miss 3RRR, especially the 'high in the saddle' show.

and PBS was... just great [sniffle]. "chant down babylon"!!

you'll notice that both these names...

sweet home Waimauku
where the skies are so blue

actually... that would be the mushrooms.

The Zamora goal against Everton is on You Tube and provides sustenance.

OH! OH! Linky plz

1. Stage photo op with All Blacks.
2. Repeat 1.

the final taxi being the very last.

gold-top taxi?

right, back to work. adieu.

OH! OH! Linky plz

Zamora Everton:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue99DLrF6rk

Wigan goals:
http://tinyurl.com/2h67p3

Oh dear, are there others whose spiritual home is Upton Park?

Yes, I think there's nothing else for it, West Ham are going to have to become the Official team of Public Address.

Less marginalization for artists (creative people, whatever) is a good thing and that's what Helen signals loud and clear.

I always prefer what I find on the margins....

I take your point as far as it goes – nobody becomes a professional musician (or anything else in the arts) for the job security. It just becomes depressing to read another obit of a musician or writer who dies in...

more weird guitar guys

And why didn't anyone in Split Enz – who I think it's fair comment to say are all very strong personaities – kill one or more of their bandmates?

You got me there. I love Split Enz – my first ever gig, Napier Muni Theatre 1984. I haven't heard the...

Sometimes, I think it's much easier to fall for the romantic stereotype of the tortured, starving artiste when you've got a full belly, a roof over your head and the certainty of a pay cheque at the end of the month.

all artists should be told that they can only...

because it's not about trying to make a living

I'm reminded of a story in French actor Jean Louis Barrault's memoirs. He's at a dinner sitting beside a shipping magnate and the're not getting on. Eventually (exaggerated from memory)...

Mangate: So you (snarf) don't make much money, do you?

pause...

The story in question isn't an interview with Neil, but an opinion piece by Gavin Bertram. The quotes from Neil date from October last year, just...

not to mention guns n roses selling out in auckland. whats up with that? west auckland has a lot to answer for

The bit that's curious is why anyone who liked GNR when they were any good would bother seeing them now. If you want to see GNR members doing...

I toured with Enz twice in the early eighties as mgmt / label for the Blams

Now that would have been great. When I saw the Enz in 84, the support act were (I'll never forget it)...Grey Parade. Who?

I think the ship has already sailed on the existence of a Jon Stewart cult. I am such a dorky fangirl about him.

I spent a little time in North America last year, and perhaps half of Americans 'get him' and his humour and the format. About half of them...

The main argument is one that's been made before: that the government support and involvement of NZ On Air have ushered in a mainstream that is essentially aping overseas genres to get played on the radio.

No, I think its much more than that...its the diversion of funds to projects...

Also not being financially tied to my artistic endevours means that I don't have to worry about the "commercial viability" of my music (anyone who's applied for NZonAir grant will recognise that phrase).

Interesting comment; I (slightly) know a commercially successful Wellington painter who went from working as a postie...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Something has drained NZ music of its uniqueness in the last few years.

Sorry, that's an easy thing to say, but I don't agree at all.

My feelings about "barbecue reggae" (Salmonella, Freddies, Black Seeds et al) are distinctly mixed, but...

No, I think its much more than that...its the diversion of funds to projects inside the system, because the system validates that funding and nothing else. I can think of many examples, some in the last month or so.

I have huge respect for what NZOA, and in particular Brendan...

My feelings about "barbecue reggae" (Salmonella, Freddies, Black Seeds et al) are distinctly mixed, but I think there's no denying it's an indigenous genre.

I liked Grant Smithies classification of it as 'hippy trumpet dub'.

What you can say is that the bands who target themselves at radioplay aren't the ones who succeed at any level overseas. Even Evermore – who always get left out of these discussions – seem to be doing their own thing.

Absolutely.....so one must question the value of all that...

His methods remind me of something not very American

Was it from a link here that I saw Jon Stewart interviewing Kurt Vonnegut? That was double proof that at least some Americans get irony.

Mainstream airplay in NZ doesn't really help the industry longterm....

whoops...I meant "obsessively targeting mainstream airplay..."

dunno what happened there..it was on the preview but went back to my first edit when I posted

I've been holding back from expressing my opinions on NZOA and funding because there seem to be people who are more eloquent at expressing their...

Absolutely.....so one must question the value of all that money tossed into all those other acts, esp since it's not even giving most of them sustainable careers. Mainstream airplay in NZ doesn't really help the industry longterm.....

I thought it was pretty cool when More FM started playing Goldenhorse, who...

Why do we think that NZ can produce world-class examples of both artistic and commercial success in the film industry which is not replicated in music?

And mainstream radioplay does help anyone who gets it in a material sense: that of APRA cheques.

agreed but see my edit correction...I love mainstream radio performance income

Why do we think that NZ can produce world-class examples of both artistic and commercial success in the film industry which is...

His methods remind me of something not very American

I spent all of last year in North America falling in love with Jon and Stephen Colbert. However, he's disappointing me a bit lately. He's so, so much better when he tones it down a little – but he seems to...

Radio stations ultimately make the final decision about who gets NZOA funding,

and regardless of what Brendan does, that is wrong wrong wrong....do we honestly think Split Enz or The Clean or OMC would have had any funding if radio programmers had their way. They should be, more or less,...

Dave Gibson

Man, gotta ask other people – who here has seen those C4 NZMM ads? With all the musicians eating.

Whoever edited those ads must really not like Dave Gibson. I'm very suspicious that he's not as much of an idiot as he's made out to be.

of course they're going to pick all the easy 'soundslike what we already play' stuff. Which person who earns a nice government wage didn't see that one coming??

The artists to watch are doing quirky live to air shows on the B-Net, or sitting at home like Greg Churchill..who is putting vocals on his tracks for his UK labels, and had a UK top 100 single, but has always been turned down by NZOA.

But that still doesn't...

its because musicians now think "potential of rent cheque" when they sit down to write a song, as opposed to the hey day of kiwi music where they thought, 'not a hope in hell' just write what I feel.

Only if they choose to.

The the "peak of New Zealand...

Not to mention the many many talented kiwis involved in the music...

its because musicians now think "potential of rent cheque" when they sit down to write a song, as opposed to the hey day of kiwi music where they thought, 'not a hope in hell' just write what I feel.

Any half decent artist should be able to deal with that...

Only if they choose to.

that's a bit naive.
We've all got choices but the overriding insentive is that if you want a crack at doing this for a living you better tow the commercial line and that commercial line is sound as much like what we already play as...

and regardless of what Brendan does, that is wrong wrong wrong

who's decision was it to let mainstream radio programmers pick who gets funding anyway?

The name of the organisation is NZ On Air. No point funding music that's not going to get played. That's their mandate.

I do, however,...

I didn't realise that you were both Everton fans – been a tough week, eh? Off to Athens we go.

Just for you I've changed my Gravatar – best footy chant I've heard for awhile, sung to the tune of 'Yellow Submarine', "We all live in a Robbie Fowler...

Whoever edited those ads must really not like Dave Gibson. I'm very suspicious that he's not as much of an idiot as he's made out to be.

He's not. He's a very clever guy – and one who had 10,000 MySpace friends before most of us even knew what MySpace...

Russell concerning Auckland Walk, I have a troubling memory of a lot of curly hair. Is that right?

The name of the organisation is NZ On Air. No point funding music that's not going to get played. That's their mandate.

if we are going to let radio programmers have any say in the music that is made then we're stuffed..sorry.

Throughout my career large numbers of perfectly playable...

Hamish/Heather
I didn't realise that you were both Everton fans

*coff* are you taking the piss? I can't tell..

We do also tend to forget how bad "industry" bands used to be. Remember Auckland Walk? Sorry if that brings back troubling memories.

Or Flight X7, or......yes there were many...the difference is now they'd be getting Phase 4 grants and then $50k each to sit in London for a few...

if we are going to let radio programmers have any say in the music that is made then we're stuffed..sorry.

...And now these same people are making the decisions on what gets funding....excuse my bahasa, but they can totally fuck off

Yeah, I'd tend to agree with that. I still...

The name of the organisation is NZ On Air. No point funding music that's not going to get played. That's their mandate.

that would be nz as in new zealand at the front of their name. no point in funding stuff that isn't like us.

part of their job was...

d then showed a little kid presenter saying 'blah blah blah'.

The Smailly Scmoo! That Dimitri Martin piece about Youtube that played on March 22 was my most favouritest corrospondents' piece on the Daily Show for a very long time, short...

I'd be far happier if he dropped most of the correspondent reports (tiresome and painfully American, almost slapstick) and just focused on exposing the lies and interviewing

I don't agree with this. The whole point is that Jon plays bemused everyperson (ie us) to their overblown idiocy. The correspondents are,...

With respect, that's bollix, or at least an observation based on a very narrow window of kiwi music

Well, you're right that if you're prepared to look outside the mainstream you'll find something you like (loving Samuel Flynn Scott's clips on Alt-TV at the moment).

I guess that after being...

that's a bit naive.

You use that word, but I don't think you know what it means.

We've all got choices but the overriding insentive is that if you want a crack at doing this for a living you better tow the commercial line

And so what are you proposing?...

Unfortunately I quickly realised that radio hadn't embraced NZ music, NZ music had produced a brand fluffy enough for radio to touch

You know, I don't much like hip-hop, but I can see a pretty clear difference between the generally locally-focused, not horribly mysoginistic stuff that I've seen on NZ...

that's a bit naive.

You use that word, but I don't think you know what it means.

in this case, simplistic, not aware of or not taking into account all the facts and factors.

We've all got choices but the overriding insentive is that if you want a crack at doing this for a living you better tow the commercial line

And so what are you proposing? Depositing taxpayer largesse on people who make music New Zealanders don't listen to?

nz on air was...

As is your explanation of why it's naive to think people are forced, as at gunpoint, into changing the style of music they produce.

with respect Roger, I don't think you have perhaps dealt with a major record company, or seen a recording contract with such....

Your inability to answer a few simple questions about what you think the system should look like are conspicuous by their absence

give me a few mins won't ya :) some of us have got day jobs we should be doing.

pay me a government wage and I'll solve all...

Nobody is suggesting that Roger...or at least I'm not.

It wasn't really a barbed aimed specifically at you but, to echo an earlier post: people who don't like the current, quite commercially oriented system need to explain what they think would make things better, and most importantly what their desired...

As is your explanation of why it's naive to think people are forced, as at gunpoint, into changing the style of music they produce.

with respect Roger, I don't think you have perhaps dealt with a major record company, or seen a recording contract with such....

You are quite right,...

It wasn't really a barbed aimed specifically at you but, to echo an earlier post: people who don't like the current, quite commercially oriented system need to explain what they think would make things better, and most importantly what their desired outcomes are.

I think I did that in response...

Really? I thought it was "if you want to be a commercially succesful musician, we'll give you money, if you want to write and perform music soley for your own pleasure, that's a hobby you can pay for."

Actually, you can apply for a Creative New Zealand recording grant. Some...

You are quite right, a fact for which I'm quite grateful. I'm aware that once signed up to a major record company one's fate is largely in their hands....

And I agree, but it wasn't that long ago that you had no choice...want to make an album...you don't have 50K+++?...

while elemenop or whoever aren't

I think Elemenop are getting a bit of a hard deal here. I just mentioned them as the first commercially successful band that sprang to mind.

I recall Shona Laing not getting any airplay for Kennedy until she won some songwriter award in Aus. I'd...

"Tim Finn's 1st single "Couldn't Be Done", from his new album 'Imaginary Kingdom' (released in America through Manhattan Records), became the 'Most Added Single' at Triple A radio format in the USA this week.

This is the 1st time a New Zealand artist has had...

I didn't say either of those things, but Enz were smart enough to be where they could make a living.

Indeed. And I wouldn't criticise them for that, any more than I'd criticise Len Lye for going abroad to find people who could appreciate his brilliance, since no-one outside the...

That year Fat Freddy's, Bic Runga and the Phoenix Foundation all released stellar records. This probably exposes my own bias, but...

Have to agree with Simon about the Hit Discs though. They used to be quite good compilations. Now I'm lucky if I can find two tracks I like.

Yeah, but you're a cranky old git who doesn't get Tool.

I kid because I love 8).

This is more a of a general comment, but I have felt for some time now that the high water mark of the NZ music 'boomlet' was in 2005.

How taste shapes the world. I'd place it a bit earlier, mostly because I'm more a Shihad/Feelers/pre-blanded Fur Patrol kind of...

pre-blanded Fur Patrol

Their old stuff is blander than their new stuff.

As we've already established I have no musical taste at all (I do like Little Feat), so I'm going to stay general rather than specific.

As a number of folks have pointed out artists in NZ can't...

Oh dear, are there others whose spritual home is Upton Park? We must be strong for one another, these will be testing times.
The Zamora goal against Everton is on You Tube and provides sustenance.

Is it more than coincidence to find so many other Hammers here? A matter of...

Why does anyone even try to make a living as a musician (or an artist, painter, writer etc. for that matter)? Masocihism, obsession, sheer bloody-mindedness or all of the above?
~ because it's not about trying to make a living

Ah, is that why they get a 'special' dole? One...

Ah, is that why they get a 'special' dole? One that means they don't actually have to look for work, unlike other unemployed?

For 12 months, detailed business plan must be submitted, accounted up the wazoo. It's not really a handout.

__Music veterans Sir Howard Morrison and Ray Columbus yesterday leaped to the defence of the Prime Minister, blasting Neil Finn...

For 12 months, detailed business plan must be submitted, accounted up the wazoo. It's not really a handout.

heh heh. I did one of those in the late 80's at Sue Bradfords People Centre. I think her husband might have signed off on it. Sadly after 12 months my small...

So So Modern, Collapsing Cities, Pig Out, Motocade, Teenwolf .....

Actually, while I wait for the taxi...

Geez Louise, some of us are waaay behind this new technology thing.
I've only just got Broadband!

Coming from someone I've seen with my own eyes pulling a prima donna act that would make Dames Kiri and Malvina blush it's a little bloody rich.

the only time I met him was backstage at one of those horrendous Christmas in the park thingies. I was introduced, along with...

The most important radio station on the planet right now is a small coloured box made by Steve Jobs, Creative, Nokia and Sony-Ericsson, and we have just begun.

So true. my iPod has re-invigorated my love of music (Viagra for the jaded ears?). I've spent much more time and money...

The whole point is that Jon plays bemused everyperson (ie us) to their overblown idiocy.

Yeah, and I love it, but the 'bemused' part doesn't need to be rammed down our throats. Well, I'd just prefer a cocked eyebrow over his 'WHAAAAAA....?' thingies...

Yeah sorry Hamish/Heather – in my anfield glee I was way too eager to look for Everton fans...

FFS, carry on, don't mind me. As if it's not bad enough I have a 12 yr old son who's a Liverpool fan, now I have you walking in here showing me...

Is it more than coincidence to find so many other Hammers here? A matter of taste, or something else?

1964 – FA Cupo
1965 – European Cup Winners Cup
1966 – World Cup (Hurst, Moore, Peters)
1975 – FA Cup
1980 – FA Cup
2006 – FA Cup (stolen)

David...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/herschell/370630346/

Speaking of NZ music wikis, there is already one for Hamilton – http://htown.elwiki.com – which is ridiculously extensive and informative.

wow, how very good this is, cheers for the link DanX

Seems to be a recurring theme here.

Pondering how to encourage NZ music.
Pondering how to encourage artists.
Pondering how DRM should work.
Pondering how to encourage broadband.
Pondering how to encourage public transport.

On a slightly different note, I got...

I think Auckland is well served with bFM, George and all the community stations. The rest of the country isn't really. I've tried to find something good to listen to in Wellington...

I'm thinking more and more that some sort of service that lets you choose where you access the net from would work. (If you work for a global company you may have...

How much would an alternative music-based (I prefer that term to "youth") station cost

I think the point is that it's free of commercial forces as much as possible. Remember the Bnet stations are commercial radio stations. they have full time staff who derive their income from the sale of...

NZ...

My impression, and I may be totally off-beam here, was that bFM only had the one paid presenter (Mikey Havoc) and the rest were all volunteers?

Heh – that would...

And back to the original point re Neil Finns comment about Helen Clark taking credit, he does have a point if he was referring to nz on air taking credit for the decline in cultural cringe when the phrase New Zealand is placed in front of an art form.

She...

Heh – that would be 'Gerrards Final'. Your son has immaculate taste by the way.

I laughed like a drain when Stevie missed that penalty for England against Portugal. If they'd lined up the Hammers squad along the halfway, he'd have got it no problem!

Why so many Hammers fans...

- key bands who just would not give up. Shihad, Goodshirt, etc who grew such a large and vocal fan base that it was frankly embarrassing for radio to not be aware of these acts.

I'm not sure how that was new.....we sold close of 5000 copies of See Me...

heh heh ... one of my favourite songs in 7th form!

(In a previous life, I'm not that old, I'm young and hot)

Mainstreet was pretty full (1500 people..how many bands could do...

Um, yes. I know getting a politician to forgo an opportunity to ego-wank before a congenial audience is a big ask, but really...

If Chirs Finlayson ends up becoming the next Arts...

Russell: THANKYOU FOR THE KARAJOZ!! Caffeine-soaked weekend.
How you got it through the letterbox remains a mystery.

If I told you I'd have to kill you, and that would be unfortunate ...

I'm not sure how that was new.....we sold close of 5000 copies of See Me Go in a week on release in 81; DD Smash were pulling huge crowds and selling more records in NZ than Shihad have ever done;

yeah thats true, gigs were well attended, but I don't...

That threat is still implied today but I think the only potential party of government after the next election that would continue...

Feelers did over 80 k of their first album, not that I'm...

And the chanting at Sweetwaters, or was I dreaming..."Peeeeta, Peeeta, Peeeta..." Like Miles Peter played on with his back to the crowd.

Ha...yes I remember that day...we had a radio backstage and the cricket score came thru...NZ had won or was close to it, I pulled Tony aside and told...

which they did in the late eighties.

whoops... late nineties!

so bringing it back to the original point re Niel Finn's comment, do you think the govt is justified in taking credit for the successful 'turn around' of nz music (if that is infact what Helen Clark was doing).

Interestingly enough, I believe Phase 4 was actually approved by the...

Actually, while I wait for the taxi, I should note that the CD that comes with the controversial Real Groove – 'Awesome Feeling: Real Groove's Sound of Young New Zealand 2007' – looks really good despite its very ugly title.

So So Modern, Collapsing Cities, Pig Out, Motocade, Teenwolf .....

Talking of dodgy old records..can I plug my new Ripper Records page here? Of course I can....

Wow. When you bring it all together like that it's dodgy, but legendary.

That ageless chorus is nice and easy and catchy for the kids to go along...

the stick I'm talking about was the threat to legislate a 20% quota if it wasn't voluntarily met..I'm not giving that credit to NZoA but to Helen's government.

Yes – and to the much-maligned Marian Hobbs in particular. As I said in the original post, the other thing on the...

Talking of dodgy old records..can I plug my new Ripper Records page here? Of course I can....

Thanks for the heads up. A great page.

It was Ripper's Goat's Milk Soap that really turned me on to NZ music. That compilation has a special place in my heart.

Cheers,
Brent.

In an interesting little linker for this thread, the new video for The Sneaks' (who I believe appear on that CD) new single has a bit of fun with the NZOA grant.
From cheeseontoast news:
The Sneaks met up with Down Low Concept – winners of lats yers 48 Hr...

The problem, again, is that NZ On Air is a broadcast funding agency. Its targets are all about hours on radio, and things get tricky when it goes beyond that.

That reading of NZ on Airs function is where its problem lies, and it's Brendan Smyth's cop out excuse too...

I think the difference in the post-2000 period was that you had years in which several acts went multi-platinum. I think Nesian Mystik's debut was about 65,000, Goldenhorse's about 45,000, Che Fu 30,000 and 50,000, Scribe 85,000. I think the Fat Freddy's album is past 100,000 now.

Remembering that an...

Best. Escape. Since. Houdini.

Best. Escape. Since. Houdini.

AAAAHHHH!! AAHHHH!!

(chicken, headless)

Hope that the Wigan/Charlton/Sheffield threat to take it the 'highest court in the land' doesn't eventuate.

Fishy transfers aside, the 3 sides with least number of points deserve to go down, end of story.

Best. Escape. Since. Houdini.

Indeed. We rock!

Of course, we always beat Man U at Old Trafford when we play them on the last day of the season. It's written in the rules or something...

Also, 1st team to do the double over Man U and Arsenal in the same...

I think that Westham followers should be used to this sort of thing eg. having to beat the league leaders to avoid relegation, and then doing it. But it still has filled me with wonder and reminded me of why it's called the beautiful game.

And if Carlos has played...