Discussion: Regarding Auckland

318 Responses

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  • Sacha,

    Craig, you're confusing operational and governance systems.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Te Runanga o Ngati Whatua Chair, Naida Glavish in media release yesterday:

    “Local government representation is just one small part of ensuring a true partnership and voice for mana whenua in the region. We must develop robust structures for partnership that enable meaningful input to all decision making across the region with both central and local government.”
    ...

    “The era of token toothless consultation for Maori is over. Through the local government restructure and treaty claim process, we must ensure inclusion that has weight; democratically, legally and publicly to uplift the mana of Maori to contribute with dignity to the future of the region.”

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Craig, you're confusing operational and governance systems.

    Perhaps I am -- but if people are going to act like children, I will treat them as such. That generally involves not being interested in their opinion unless I'm buying them school shoes.

    And the moment Bob Harvey is saying he's going to "sabotage" any new governance system however he can, then I'm not much interested in what he has to say either. Might well have a point or two, but it's a little too WhaleOily for my blood. And this really does matter.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    John Holley wrote:

    Power in Auckland will be held by only a handful of people who, if a FPP electoral system is used, could well have a "mandate for change" with around 35% of the vote.

    Welll... yeeees. But that's somewhat beside the point. For all the hand-wringing about turnouts (and I've done a fair bit of it myself), I don't think we start want to be saying there's a tipping point where the results of elections somehow become "illegitimate". Nor do I think compulsory voting has exactly done wonders for the depth and breadth of representation in Canberra.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    Nor do I think compulsory voting has exactly done wonders for the depth and breadth of representation in Canberra.

    Compulsory voting was certainly a factor in the rise of Pauline Hanson. Taking the opportunity to give a plague-on-both-of-your-houses finger to a self-absorbed dual party system that largely treated non-party members with contempt, voters knowingly sent a card-carrying idiot to Canberra.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Craig, I believe John was mainly referring to merging operational systems, and taking enough time to allow picking the best across the current organisations. It's proven to be a complex undertaking.

    That has nothing to do with current political reactions, including leaders feeling disempowered and threatening to take on the process. Both those responses and your desire to be rid of them swiftly make sense to me, given political differences. However, I don't see why fast governance changes should come at the expense of operational outcomes.

    Your acceptance of FPP is just a mystery to me.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    David Beatson takes an historical view.

    The latest plan for change looks a little like Auckland the way it was supposed to be in 1963. Then, the country’s first Regional Authority was established to provide a uniting umbrella over some 29 territorial local authorities in Auckland.

    By 1985, Labour’s new local government minister, Michael Bassett was being pummeled by 21 Auckland mayors all complaining that the Regional Authority was too big and powerful – “a monster out of control”.
    ...

    The Royal Commission took more than 70 weeks to develop its plan. It took John Key and Rodney Hyde just one week to change it. They haven’t had the last word – yet.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Both those responses and your desire to be rid of them swiftly make sense to me, given political differences.

    Oh, I don't think that's really fair, Sacha. I'm actually pretty agnostic about the whole idea, and there's sensible arguments (under a thick crust of bullshit) on all sides of this one. I'd rather see things don't right, than right now, but do you really think anything is going to satisfy the likes of Penny Bright or Hone Harawira? Really? They're equally prone to the 'my way or fuck off' definition of democracy.

    Your acceptance of FPP is just a mystery to me.

    Meh... I'm just disinclined to accept the Chicken Littles decrying the death of democracy, institutional racism, the instilation of John Banks as our new insect overlord and all the other really really bad things that will happen happen if Darth Hide gets his way. (Then again, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for the rates bill to nose dive any time soon.)

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I'm actually pretty agnostic about the whole idea, and there's sensible arguments (under a thick crust of bullshit) on all sides of this one. I'd rather see things done right, than right now...

    I believe we agree, then - including about the likelihood of ever satisfying some folk.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    the installation of John Banks as our new insect overlord

    His recent performances on RNZ have only firmed my belief that John is not fated to be the uberlord. Still, I'll work with whatever is delivered by our pollies and fellow citizens.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Today's Herald editorial addresses the governance issues and seems to strive for "balance". Corporate cheerleaders may be unamused.

    The Government's refinement of the royal commission's design for Auckland is nearly right, but not quite. The single city overlaying 20 to 30 community boards looks a better balance of power and local democracy than the commission's six subsidiary councils. But the gap between the two tiers would be wide, and that makes the electoral arrangements for the higher body more important.
    ...

    Consistency can be over-emphasised in public administration. If resource consent applicants face some different criteria from one community to the next, no harm is done.

    In fact a great deal of good may result if it enables communities to keep a distinctive character, or copy criteria they see working well. One district plan for a city as diverse as Auckland would reduce all parts to their lowest common denominator.

    They did notice that there will be only one plan, right?

    The Government has moved with commendable haste in the hope of having the new set-up ready for local body elections late next year. But before then there needs to be some sort of reference to Aucklanders' wishes.

    The way they elect their local government leaders is too important to proceed much further without clarity and consistency.

    Haste is good? Clarity takes time. One suspects this editorial may have been written by committee.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    do you really think anything is going to satisfy the likes of Penny Bright or Hone Harawira?

    Nothing but a socialist revolution would satisfy Penny Bright. Even then I think she'd be getting thrown out of meetings and being sent to the gulag. Harawira on the other hand strikes me as quite reasonable, and tolerant of compromises that enhance (rather than reduce) the positions he strives for.

    You are however joking about block voting leading to democratic outcomes, right? The overseas experience has been wild swings, independents and minority viewpoints excluded, and elected dictatorships. Hardly a compelling track record.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Here we go.

    Rodney Hide is trash-talking the North Shore mayor. See:

    Hide rejects accusation he misled John Key over super city.

    Rodney vs Every Mayor But Banks is shaping up as ye olde clusterfuck.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Haste is good? Clarity takes time. One suspects this editorial may have been written by committee.

    Or by John Roughan. He can sometimes give that impression all on his own.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    Rodney vs Every Mayor But Banks is shaping up as ye olde clusterfuck.

    Like the Thatcher vs Greater London Council clusterfuck?

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5446 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Here's the original release from North Shore City Mayor, Andrew Williams.

    “National Party people with long-time North Shore allegiances have commented to me of their concerns that the government is being hi-jacked by Rodney Hide on this Auckland Governance issue. There are real concerns out there on the North Shore, and this is echoed right across Auckland, that a small group of wealthy elitists with ACT party connections, and with the ears of the Prime Minister, are aiming to control Auckland.

    I do not know much about Mr Williams, though he seems to be engaged in a battle with some of the disproportionately-influential eastie ACToids which would colour media positioning as well as his own thinking. Cameron Slater provides an example for those with strong stomachs. It seems unexceptional that fellow right-wingers like Banks, his ex-flunkie Cameron Brewer, Aaron Bhatnagar and co would have better access to Hide than most (though goodwill doesn't necessarily extend beyond the bombays).

    North Shore City's official statement after the briefing last week seems conciliatory enough. I suspect there is a lot of pressure coming on from local stakeholders concerned about both process and outcomes. It's all too easy for Mayors to be painted as motivated by sour grapes:

    The NZ Herald takes a more constructive attitude to the Auckland reforms that the incumbent Mayors who seem horrified that in future they may only be local community board chairs.

    Also found tonight's TV3 News story - with link to video near the top:

    But Mr Hide said he spoke to other Mayors the day the Royal Commission released its report, a day when Williams was in the South Island.

    To be fair, Hide did talk with more than just Banks after that too. However, there's no guarantee that he understood what was said to him and who can say how those discussions have been represented since?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    It appears that Mr Hide talked to at least some of them. Thus far there is no evidence that he actually listened to them however.

    Grrrr. They're stealing my Manukau, to be subsumed as the southern suburbs and not much else.

    Given who has been involved and cheerleading so far, I would surprised if ACT and those on the far right of National haven't been setting the agenda.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • ScottY,

    Paul Holmes on the Supercity:

    The Supercity will happen. That is that. It was delivered with the clarity we have come to expect from Rodney Hide and the light touch we are coming to see as the John Key trademark. No horses were frightened. The reformation is the most natural, normal thing in the world. And we'll do it by next October.

    Where does one begin to start with a statement like this?

    Hide's clarity - there seems to be less clarity about who he consulted. But, to be fair to Holmes, Hide's economic and political policies have always been expressed clearly. They're still bonkers though.

    Key's "trademark" light touch appears to have deserted him in this instance. He appears to be acting in haste to impose a solution on the people of Auckland without adequate consultation.

    No horses were frightened - just most of the mayors, a large number of the populace, sections of the media, and much of Wellington.

    Lord Mayor Holmes?

    West • Since Feb 2009 • 794 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Indeed, where to start. What a compendium of breathless blathering. And get that man some knee pads.

    liable to capture by odd people, agenda people, high-and-mighty people, people who seemed to answer to no particular constituency, people too happy with our dough.

    Sound like anyone we know?

    Strangely, there is no screaming.

    Doesn't matter when this story was filed, you'd have to be in a hermetically sealed cave not to have noticed dissent - unless you didn't want to, of course. Hey, it worked for Bush.

    Sharples believes this means Maori will miss out on representation. But times have changed. Maori are doing it for themselves now. The Maori Party is a major presence in Parliament. The United States has elected an African-American president. Maori, now, might have to get organised for themselves.

    Tosser. Councils already have scant Maori representation - that's not a matter of anyone's "belief". Maori have been doing it for themselves since Holmes's pissy ancestors were still marking "here be dragons" on maps. The Maori Party only exists because of the Maori seats - and why should anyone need to remind such an overpaid journo of that?

    Already, Rodney fears a loss of power in its bustling capital, Orewa.

    Has this man even read the report? Still, let's not asume that idiocy is any impediment to either media presence or standing for high office.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • JLM,

    [http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10566362|Fun times ahead], by the looks of the Herald this morning.

    Judy Martin's southern sl… • Since Apr 2007 • 241 posts Report Reply

  • JLM,

    Judy Martin's southern sl… • Since Apr 2007 • 241 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Ah, yes. Lid lifted on some of the personality politics.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Rodney Hide is trash-talking the North Shore mayor.

    Sigh... So, now Rodney shouldn't defend himself when he's called a liar? And, darling, if anything in that story you linked to is "trash talking", I've got one question: When the hell did you become so delicate? You've sure taken extremely strong exception to being called a liar with a secret agenda around here. :)

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Roger,

    Rod Oram on the Super City (SST)

    To understand how bad the government's decisions on Auckland's governance are, you need to understand how comprehensively they destroy the proposals made by the Royal Commission.

    Well at least someone in the media is paying attention and actually reading the reports!

    Hamilton • Since Jun 2007 • 179 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Ta, Roger. Oram's analysis about the fundamental differences between what the Commission proposed and what the Government has countered with is spot on and well worth a read.

    Thus the local councils would be a new type of representative body, one which operates within a larger local authority and which provides services and acts as an advocate for residents, ratepayers and communities of their areas, the commissioners said.

    They would be a vast improvement on existing community boards. They would have real powers and, through new ways of engaging with communities, they would represent local people more effectively within the regional governance system.

    The failures of existing community boards were well documented in submissions to the commission and in its own research.

    ...

    Instead, the commission decided that six new-style local councils would be more effective and efficient. Moreover, they would retain a lot of the local knowledge, institutional memory and expertise in the existing city and district councils. Greater fragmentation into say 20 community boards would cause much of that to be lost.

    To work well, this new model of shared governance within the region would require a new relationship of shared governance between the region and central government.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

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