Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: A few (more) words on The Hobbit

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  • recordari, in reply to andin,

    Not a word play?

    Of course. Although they could leave Matt Damon out of this one.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    Yep. But hey enough of the dick jokes .
    There is hope.
    Birkenstock-wearing, tree-hugging hippies, it seems, had a point sez the bald colonel.
    "retrofitting a nation will give full employment"
    Has anyone else thought of this?

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1891 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    a swell alternative...

    (Or go down to the dairy and buy a can of Harden Up. If they sell it in the massive quantities required, that is.)

    Sounds like one of them new-fangled RTDs,
    whatever happened to good old Tume Essence ?

    The only bad humans are of Middle Eastern stock, just as the men of the West invade the Gulf? I don’t know, you tell me.

    Filming of that scene, which was cut from the theatrical release, was completed in 2000, undoubtably designed before that, well before us Westerners engaged in our latest invasion of the gulf.

    What about 1991 ? When the US-led coalition "liberated" Kuwait from the Iraqi invaders (spurred on by international condemnation, created by Hill & Knowlton's creative use of, well, lies - about babies being tipped out of incubators in a Kuwaiti hospital...
    Packaging and promoting the evil middle easterners was a nice little earner for H&K.


    ....and is it just me, or does that Tucson shooter look a lot like John Key?

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report Reply

  • recordari,

    What about 1991 ?

    What about 9/11? The Two Towers filming was finished in December 2000, a year before. Just sayin'.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    What about 1991 ?

    What about the 1940s when Tolkien actually wrote this stuff? It was Jackson's intent to be faithful to the source material, which does seem to imply Saracen styles for the various peoples south of Gondor. Yes, so as not to upset Arabs he could have just altered everything about that part of Middle Earth, including the part about it being hotter (thus being more likely to produce "swarthy" people). But why the hell should he? It's not intended as an allegory, even for the times that it was written in, Tolkien makes that abundantly clear in the foreword to the second edition, and it's sure as hell not an allegory for times decades after his death.

    If we're talking political sensitivity, bear in mind that a lot of Americans wanted the name of The Two Towers changed, because it reminded them of 9/11. For exactly the same reasons as he kept the vaguely middle eastern styling, he refused to pander to American sensitivities, since the Two towers referred to are Orthanc and Barad-dur, not the World Trade Center buildings.

    They're not Arabs, they're just people who are a bit darker, carry curved swords (as half of the ancient world did), wear something like a turban, presumably to deal with heat and sand, and their ships vaguely resembled some Arab ships, in Jackson's depiction (Tolkien doesn't describe them in detail). The book is a fantasy with extremely detailed histories and geographies, and Jackson tried to be true to it. He used the phrase "Men of the West" because it aptly described an army formed mostly from people from Gondor and Rohan, both of which are on the Western part of Middle Earth, pitted against an army entirely formed from non-humans (this diverges from Tolkien - indeed the finale bears little resemblance, other than that the Ring is destroyed in the midst of it).

    It annoyed me a little too, because it ignored the important contributions of the Elf, the Dwarf and the two Hobbits, who had been his companions for 3 movies at that point, and his own Elven heritage, and his intended Elven wife. It would simply not have been something the Aragorn of the book would have said, even if he was inclined to give vainglorious speeches, which he was not. Definitely he would not have hacked the head off an ambassador, as happens in the extended edition. But to accuse the scene of deliberate race-baiting is drawing a very, very long bow. It's about fantasy people in a fantasy world pitted against fantasy creatures for fantasy reasons.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to BenWilson,

    a lot of Americans wanted the name of The Two Towers changed, because it reminded them of 9/11

    Pacifier. Grrr

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Sacha,

    Pacifier. Grrr

    Just one of many cases of political in-correctness gone mad in the wake of 9/11. Not to mention the Dixe chicks told to Shut Up And Sing, and the stonewalling of Fahrenheit 9/11, among others.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5446 posts Report Reply

  • recordari, in reply to Sacha,

    Pacifier. Grrr

    Can't help wondering if the 'break into America' plans might have gone better if they'd just stuck to their guns. So to speak. Without meaning anything by it.

    Sheesh, language is a virus.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to BenWilson,

    What about the 1940s

    Hey nobody said we were perfect awright.
    Well not when I was listeninnng.
    Yes thanks I;ll ahve another one.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1891 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    Oh Fuck it on this thread, let me add high irony.Or am I............http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHqUipinDyw

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1891 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    What smug self-serving deliberately divisive drivel. If you happened to be attempting to run a small manufacturing business in the mid-80s, actually making stuff, you got hit with GST, with no appreciable reduction in personal tax. I know, I was there, I didn’t get rich, I paid a shitload of tax, and I’m a damned fool for having done so.

    NZ went through major tax reform in the the 1980s. The top income tax rate came down from 66% to 33%. The imposition of a 10% GST rate only took 7-8% of that back for upper earners (there were some other changes, most significantly to company tax efficiency). To quote Brian Easton:

    Why the rise in inequality? First, observe the most rapid increase occurs in the period when the government is cutting the top income tax rate – it was 66 percent in the year to March 1986 and was 33 percent by 1990. This lifted the relative income of those in the top decile, who were the main beneficiaries of the tax cuts. This is sufficient to explain most of their income increase. In order to fund the reduction in income taxation on those at the top, the government cut social security benefits and other government spending (sometimes by the imposition of user charges), withdraw tax concessions, and allow income tax rates to rise on lower incomes via fiscal creep. Since there was little income growth, the net effect of the fiscal changes was to switch income from the poor and those on middle incomes to the rich.

    The fact that you might not have benefitted personally from the changes (like all generalisations it's not universally true) doesn't negate the fact that many baby boomers from the mid-1980s onwards benefitted tremendously from tax cuts. To go back to the original statement. Baby boomers were at the most 40 years old when the 4th Labour government hacked taxes. During the following 25+ years - their peak earning years when people pay the most in income tax, they did not fund the care of their elders as per the social contract that had built up for several decades. Within a few years their parents and grandparents were having to sell their homes to fund their hospital care.

    Um Kyle – “large tax cuts” during peak income years – 40s onwards?
    I sure as shit dont recall that: in my late 30s until mid40s I was earning comparatively large amounts of money (comparative to earlier earnings) – and I was paying 66% of aforesaid income over a relatively low cutoff point. My mother
    who became a pensioner in my mid40s, did not have income testing.

    You're describing the situation before the tax and health systems were reformed in the mid 1980s onwards. I'm talking about the change.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    And, what Joe said- GST was the bane of my life, and it was *in addition* to income tax.

    You wouldn't have paid GST and 66% income tax. GST was a partial replacement for the massive reductions in income tax that Douglas brought in, they didn't exist at the same time.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    What about 1991 ? When the US-led coalition “liberated” Kuwait from the Iraqi invaders (spurred on by international condemnation, created by Hill & Knowlton’s creative use of, well, lies – about babies being tipped out of incubators in a Kuwaiti hospital…

    Jackson filmed a movie in the late 1990s which came out in the 2000s in support of a invasion or Iraq that finished almost a decade before? I think you're reaching.

    Did Tolkien write a book largely about Western white guys beating up on Eastern not so white guys? Yup. Did Jackson break that and do something different? No. Does it join umpteen other movies which have similar issues? Yup.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    Just one of many cases of political in-correctness gone mad in the wake of 9/11. Not to mention the Dixe chicks told to Shut Up And Sing, and the stonewalling of Fahrenheit 9/11, among others.

    Yeah, OK… political point made. Personally, I can’t get too outraged about decision that was made to pull after 9/11 the initial teaser poster, and a specially shot teaser trailer for the first Spider-Man movie. Both prominently included the WTC towers.

    I guess you can call it “political incorrectness gone mad”, if you like. Others might just call it good taste.

    For that matter, I can disagree with – but understand – the decision not to broadcast this episode of Buffy a week after the Columbine massacre. Considering recent events, I’m fairly sure the producers of The Event are glad that 1) the show is on hiatus until next month, and, 2) the plotline involving an elaborate conspiracy to assassinate the liberal President (who happens to be played by a black actor) is done.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Kyle Matthews,

    The fact that you might not have benefitted personally from the changes (like all generalisations it’s not universally true) doesn’t negate the fact that many baby boomers from the mid-1980s onwards benefitted tremendously from tax cuts. To go back to the original statement. Baby boomers were at the most 40 years old when the 4th Labour government hacked taxes. During the following 25+ years – their peak earning years when people pay the most in income tax, they did not fund the care of their elders as per the social contract that had built up for several decades. Within a few years their parents and grandparents were having to sell their homes to fund their hospital care.

    According to that rather deviously worded scenario, everyone entering the workforce, not just those selfish dotards born to the WW2 generation, would have “benefitted tremendously” from the ongoing fourty pieces of silver they’ve received for abdicating their part in maintaining the “social contract”.

    You appear to assume the usual comfortable slacktivist mythology of universal home ownership and lifelong comfortably-remunerated income security. My own experience has shown that the reality for many is very different. No doubt there are plenty of smugly self-absorbed “baby boomers” who may well deserve that increasingly pejorative classification. I’d suggest that they’re not the only ones who might benefit society by having to rediscover the meaning of fiscal fear. Simply being born before or after that particular democratic bulge doesn’t automatically grant a handy halo of moral superiority

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    As for the “parents and grandparents” of those vile “boomers” “having to sell their homes to fund their hospital care”, whenever that might have happened it would have been due to the deliberate running down of the health system in the 90s. To her credit Helen Clark undid much of the damage in the ensuing decade, which hardly fits with the convenient scapegoating of the “boomer” generation’s inexorable eroding of the social contract.

    I know of more than one case of elderly people depleting what savings they might have had to pay Shipley’s “market rents”. Universal home ownership has never been a given in this country.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    Um, demographic bulge.
    Unless the post-war urge to procreate has some kind of democratic basis.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    During the following 25+ years - their peak earning years when people pay the most in income tax, they did not fund the care of their elders as per the social contract that had built up for several decades. Within a few years their parents and grandparents were having to sell their homes to fund their hospital care.

    Do you want to tell me what I should have eaten for breakfast as well.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1891 posts Report Reply

  • recordari, in reply to andin,

    Within a few years their parents and grandparents were having to sell their homes to fund their hospital care.

    Not a hip replacement, per chance?

    Do you want to tell me what I should have eaten for breakfast as well.

    Humble pie?

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Did Tolkien write a book largely about Western white guys beating up on Eastern not so white guys? Yup

    Actually, nup. Substitute "largely" with "with a very small part"*. It's mostly about the war against Sauron, whose army is orc, trolls and the Nazgul (who are all incidentally white guys, as is Saruman).

    *Edit: That's if you buy into the whole idea that the Haradrim are meant to be real Easterners. I guess it's safe to say that they're not "Western European" anyway.

    Second edit: Nor, for that matter, are Americans, who were the other party in the Gulf Wars.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Kyle Matthews,

    I was talking about the years 1985-1988.
    When I was 38-41.
    I still have the cheque butts & GST returns to prove it.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Islander,

    I still have the cheque butts & GST returns to prove it.

    Classic. You're one of a kind! I hope they're not in a shoe box?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to BenWilson,

    They're in my souvenir file (along with an actual cheque from the CLL - for $2.71 (no, there no noughts missing from those figures)) which is stored in a WW2 Army filing cabinet...

    obsessive & strange hoarder? Me?

    How could you think such a thing?

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Islander,

    Well, I've noticed financial records to be the one thing most hoarders don't keep.

    Hoarding is something I'm slowly training myself out of. But there's still a draw at my parents' house with all my exercise books from primary school. I chanced across them in my 20s, and discovered that I had once actually mastered cursive handwriting, and completely forgotten that I had done so. "Print script" was introduced when I was 10, and it's still what I use. It's quite scary to come across years of your own work and not recognize it at all.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to BenWilson,

    O, most of my financial records are mulch (except for the last decades worth, which I am required to keep.)I just save the especial ones to jog my memory…did I really pay the IRD a sum that would’ve bought 2 houses? (Checks souvenir file– yep, I did.)

    I have one of my mother’s primary school books: her handwriting was beautiful, even 75 years ago.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

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