Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: A Real Alternative

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  • Joshua Drummond,

    That should make pretty interesting viewing. A proper mainstream (Media 7 is mainstream, right?) discussion about the deal youth get in the media is one of the things I've looked forward to seeing for ages - the only place I have really seen it before is in student mags, various internet articles and, uh, Tearaway.

    Since Nov 2006 • 119 posts Report Reply

  • JLM,

    It sounds as if the proposed closing of Aorangi school in a low decile, high immigrant area as part of the same mindset.

    Judy Martin's southern sl… • Since Apr 2007 • 241 posts Report Reply

  • Pete Sime,

    "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
    authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
    of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
    households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
    contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
    at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

    -Attributed to Socrates (469-399 BCE).

    Dunedin • Since Apr 2008 • 171 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    If drug use is now a reason for cutting school funding, they may have to revisit that cheque they wrote to Kings and Dio...

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Litterick,

    @Socrates: and look what happened to the Greeks; greatest civilisation EVAH, completely squandered. It is all in ruins now. That sort of thing is what happens if you let kids cross their legs and chatter.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1000 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    If drug use is now a reason for cutting school funding, they may have to revisit that cheque they wrote to Kings and Dio...

    Heh.

    But seriously, if drug use actually is being touted as a reason for the Alt-Ed funding "review" then it's wrong and dishonest.

    I don't quite understand what's going on here, but I don't like the look of it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • 81stcolumn,

    I thought one of the original moral panics was children with un-crossed legs ?

    <ducks>

    Nawthshaw • Since Nov 2006 • 790 posts Report Reply

  • 81stcolumn,

    Oh and students take lots of drugs - time to close UNi ?

    Nawthshaw • Since Nov 2006 • 790 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah,

    More on Socrates: the quote above seems to be a misattribution.

    But Plato does predict what will happen to a youth who has too much freedom and licence. (NB: the early Socratic dialogues seem to be Plato reporting Socrates' words, but in the later dialogues, of which The Republic is one, Plato uses Socrates as a character. So when we read "Socrates" speaking in The Republic, what we are hearing is Plato's philosophy, through the mouthpiece of Socrates.)

    When a youth, bred in the illiberal and niggardly fashion that we were describing, gets a taste of the honey of the drones and associates with fierce and cunning creatures who know how to purvey pleasures of every kind and variety and condition, there you must doubtless conceive is the beginning of the transformation of the oligarchy in his soul into democracy. Republic 559d-e

    Plato was not fond of democracy. He equated it with mob rule. Hence his argument for philosopher kings, which seems like a jolly good argument to me!

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1447 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    But seriously, if drug use actually is being touted as a reason for the Alt-Ed funding "review" then it's wrong and dishonest.

    See in my head, that would incline you to greater funding of AE - it's partly representative of the different schooling some kids need.
    Saying "kids who go to AE are taking drugs so we must stop funding AE" is so... just... bad.

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Brickley Paiste,

    But seriously, if drug use actually is being touted as a reason for the Alt-Ed funding "review" then it's wrong and dishonest.

    I don't quite understand what's going on here, but I don't like the look of it.

    It certainly looks like a punch up. These things don't come out of nowhere, much less make it into the newspaper.

    It pisses me off because, and I mean this honestly, were it not for readily available marijuana in high school, I never would have graduated.

    It was the only learning aid that allowed me to settle down long enough to complete the piles of pointless busy work that was necessary to attain the qualification. Where can I score, man? I have to study!

    Since Mar 2009 • 164 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    When a youth, bred in the illiberal and niggardly fashion that we were describing, gets a taste of the honey of the drones and associates with fierce and cunning creatures who know how to purvey pleasures of every kind and variety and condition...

    See, this is almost word for word what we used to say about first year uni students from "good" schools with strict parents. You'd see one fall in the river and say, "Ah, there we go, too much honey of the drones again, they're not used to it, not with all that illiberal niggardliness they've been raised on."

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    Honey of the Drones. What a great name for some kind of whiskey liquor or the like.
    Someone call Whats-his-face-42-Below.

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    We're exploring a related theme in this week's Media7 programme: the deal that youth get in the media.

    Pshaw... everyone know nice middle-class, middle-aged people don't get pissed, use drugs, cause fatal car accidents, commit violent crimes or act like dildos in public.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Mark Graham,

    Does anyone else remember 18 months ago, when we had a fairly horrendous January of murders (10 I think) in which a number of teens were involved as victims or perps. Politicians and MSM were all over the collapse of Western Civilisation and OUT OF CONTROL YOOF.

    We're still here and last I checked, most of our kids are alright, too.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 218 posts Report Reply

  • Kerry Weston,

    I had a look around the alt ed offerings (for kids who didn't make it in mainstream) in Manawatu a couple of years ago - underfunded, under-resourced, with the underlying theme that this wasn't meant to be "real" education, because that only happened in proper schools.

    You know, one size does not fit all and the ones who don't fit mainstream are stigmatised. Non-conformists - oh dear. It's such ancient thinking that it's hard to believe it still has credence.

    The only thing I agree with Tolley about is that literacy matters, but it won't be improved by her testing regime. Where's the curriculum for digital literacy?

    Manawatu • Since Jan 2008 • 494 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    Rumour has it that there are hieroglyphics that translate as "The youth of today are concerned only with themselves, and will bring about the fall of civilisation." It's clearly not in any way a new concern. Plato and Socrates were obviously way behind the 8-ball on that one

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Kim Sokolich,

    ARRRGGHHh!!

    Slightly off topic, It would also be good if more publicity was given to the gutless government's (now starting to show their true colours) withdrawal of funding of the Enviroschool concept.

    I heard Russel Norman on the radio lamenting it but there really should be more people deriding this foolishly short-term decision.

    This programme makes sense on so many levels. For one they grow their own food!! Some kids think that all food comes in a plastic wrapping of some sort so anything that demonstrates otherwise has to be a good thing, never mind all the other good, common sense aspects of this concept.

    Since Oct 2008 • 47 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Many teenagers in the school system of last resort are smoking pot.
    The high rates of drug abuse are among concerns about the alternative education system that have prompted Education Minister Anne Tolley to review its funding.

    Sounds a bit like;
    "Many people in Afghanistan are smoking opium.
    The high rates of drug abuse are among concerns about Afghanistan that have prompted the authorities to review their troop numbers."
    Yeah. If you have a problem with something and want to distance yourself just mention Drugs. Same as if you want funding for research, just mention Global Warming or second hand smoke.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • 81stcolumn,

    Can place a bet that Tolley goes to health within 2 years ?

    Nawthshaw • Since Nov 2006 • 790 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    Where's the curriculum for digital literacy?

    You will find it in NCEA Media Studies

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2562 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    Yeah. If you have a problem with something and want to distance yourself just mention Drugs. Same as if you want funding for research, just mention Global Warming or second hand smoke.

    What made me incoherently angry was the TV news report last night which showed an Afghani woman and her kids who'd been to rehab and then gone back to opium explaining that it was because opium was cheaper than food and quelled the kids' hunger pains. Your problem here is not drugs, your problem here is they have no food. They're not doing it recreationally, for fuck's sake. And did the news report highlight this at all? Noooo, it was all about the Evil, Evil Drugs. Gah.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    And did the news report highlight this at all?

    In our house we refer to this as 'the six o'clock gnrrrrghs'.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    In our house we refer to this as 'the six o'clock gnrrrrghs'.

    A most eloquent description.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    the TV news report last night which showed an Afghani woman and her kids who'd been to rehab and then gone back to opium

    And they looked so much more contented than those running around with guns or those running from those running around with guns.
    Drugs are a problem?.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

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