Hard News: A Strange Surprise
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Funny in what universe? "Dubmugga", if you are really serious about putting some focus into raising your children right then think a bit about how this adolescent attitude helps.
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Being "provocative and hard-hitting" doesn't give ad industry creatives or their clients a pass for sending out mixed message that are, at best, just incoherent.
I thought it was clear what they were trying to say to women, but I agree with you, men could easily get the wrong idea, or use it the wrong way.
Similarly with these ads - it's fairly clear what they're saying to the kids, not so clear what they're saying to the cops.
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The law was changed in a rush, but that doesn't mean the change is a bad one. The Law Commission report offers some pretty compelling reasons to do away with the partial defence.
And may I add that the gay community has been talking about how seriously fucked up the 'gay panic' school of provocation defences are for a very looong time -- certainly before the high profile murder of David McNee in 2003. As I said here a long time back, I'll take a win where I can get it. It would have been nice if killing gays raised the same levels of public outrage and political urgency as the savage murder of a pretty young woman, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm glad provocation is off the statute books.
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if you are really serious about putting some focus into raising your children right then think a bit about how this adolescent attitude helps.
it helps by showing my kids that you cant get away with provocation so dont kill anyone unless its in real self defense, a case of kill or be killed and then dont mutilate the corpse to pretend like you're a beserker, oh and dont wash your clothes before the cops get there like bain did either.
OK so if my lady comes at me with some scissors, i should disarm her and restrain her but not try to slap some sense into her...not even once as a shock tactic to snap her out of it ?
what would you do or what should weatherston have done if that was the case ?
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What if Sophie's dad had come in the room, found his dead daughter and then killed Weatherston? No more provocation for him! Think about it. I haven't.
We don't have mandatory life sentences for murder any more. Had the event you described occurred and the father been found guilty of murder, a judge may well have imposed a light sentence. We'll never know.
And you can get life for manslaughter. That's the funny thing about the Weatherston case. The judge may have come down hard on him even if his partial defence had succeeded.
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judges can be so finnickity...bless their lil cotton socks:)
It would have been nice if killing gays raised the same levels of public outrage and political urgency as the savage murder of a pretty young woman...
i reckon it would have if the defendent had been a smarmy white educated muthafucka who'd cut davids balls off in death then feigned amnesia and innocence at trial
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Similarly with these ads - it's fairly clear what they're saying to the kids, not so clear what they're saying to the cops.
Well, as Russell observed:
I wonder if its target market will also take the message that the cops can do what they want, and whether that's healthy in the long term.
Certainly not healthy for frontline cops who have a shitty enough time on traffic duty without the LTSA adding to whatever paranoid aggro is already in the air if they pull over some bloke who isn't high, but might still throw out a lot more attitude than is constructive because he doesn't want to get shamed out in front of the bros.
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OK so if my lady comes at me with some scissors, i should disarm her and restrain her but not try to slap some sense into her...not even once as a shock tactic to snap her out of it ?
Disarm her, then walk away. How hard is that? Does the term "It's not OK" mean anything?
BTW, why do you believe Sophie Elliot came at Weatherston with a pair of scissors? Because he told that to the court? The jury didn't believe him. Yet you appear to.
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Interesting take, Craig. You're worried this makes it hard for the cops? I guess it does put some onus on them to act all heavy, or the whole campaign will just be laughed at by those it targets. Do cops want that or not? Some of them like being heavy.
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I reckon the target market for the advert is middle-aged voters who want to be reassured that the police are "doing something about yoof".
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Disarm her, then walk away.
turn your back on an able bodied distressed person who just tried to stab you ?...not bloody likely. its not OK to try and stab someone with scissors and it certainly wouldn't be OK with me if, while walking away i get clocked with a blunt instrument then bashed to death either.
and FWIW i dont believe sophie went at him with scissors but if she had then in my books thats worthy of some form of measured physical response but not a psycho stabfrenzy
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I reckon the target market for the advert is middle-aged voters who want to be reassured that the police are "doing something about yoof".
No lose all round then.
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it was clear what they were trying to say to women
My interpretation of the Lisa ad:
"Dear Ladies,
Our culture is insistent that you are in charge of other people's penises whether you are drunk, sober, promiscuous, celibate, in trackies, or in a corset. But we just wanted to let you know that if you're drunk, you totally deserve it, even more than the sober chicks.
Sincerely,
ALAC"Yeah. See, I don't think that's what they were trying to say. But that's what they said. Still hugely pissed off by that ad.
collapse into an incredulous cluster fuck of disapproval
There's nothing I love more than *edgy* anonymous guys who make rape and domestic violence jokes, Brickley and dubmugga. So. Hot.
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Interesting take, Craig. You're worried this makes it hard for the cops?
Hey, cops are human too -- and we've all got enough unavoidable crap to carry though the day without making any more. :)
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So. Hot.
y'all should see me on the dance floor...DAMN !!!
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turn your back on an able bodied distressed person who just tried to stab you ?
Then do it at a run.
More seriously, there's a difference between "defend yourself" and "slap some sense into", espeically considering the misogynistic overtones of the latter. Stop constructing tenuous hypothetical scenarios in defence of a stupid statement; it's too late on Friday for that.
Re the earlier earjack: the best defence is a good offence. Wrap the jack and the wire adjacent to it in a good layer of sellotape as soon as you get them. Not hugely aesthetically pleasing, but it prevents a lot of the bending which eventually causes the wires to snap.
It has been my experience that *all* headphones do this, not just Sony, if used often and hard enough; the bugger is that the silencing ones are extremely expensive but still subject to the same fault.
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"slap some sense into",
Reminds me of my saying I dined out on during the early 90s.
The Army was the cheapest discipline I'ld ever had.
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so you'd disarm the person then run away...
...and you think i'm making stupid statements ?
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This is the most ridiculous song I have heard all year. And I love it.
And it reminded me of this, same kinda feel, eh?
And I just noticed the first Yuotube comment, quite apt i thought.This was one of the songs that got me through rehab ........ respect due....
solodaddy (5 hours ago) -
so you'd disarm the person then run away...
...and you think i'm making stupid statements ?
Please note the "more seriously", and, yeah, it's about equally as logical as your hypothetical situation.
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Big talk. Small boy.
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dubmugga, it's never okay to beat a woman up.
If you think it's better to give someone a bash, rather than walk away, then I pity those around you.
You should get help.
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That is exactly what the Central Christchurch Liquor ban has increased.
It is legal to drive through with alcohol in your car.
But cops are stopping kids, searching their cars and pouring the priviously unopened piss into the Avon.Isn't that called theft?
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Off Topic, but good to see the provocation defense has gone.
Anyone know who/why five MPs voted to keep it?ACT, of course. Why would they vote for the law to regard gays as human beings?
However, I don't like the way laws like this are developed. Usually there's some outcry about something (like Clayton Weatherston being a douchebag), and the government rushes to act by introducing legislation. I know the Law Commission had issued a report on it, but there's loads of reports gathering dust just waiting to be acted on.
The Law Commission indeed issued a report. It duly went on the pile of "things to do sometime but which are not a priority" until the perfect storm of Banjo-boy plus Weatherston (and an opposition member's bill inspired by the former) forced the government to finally act.
Without those cases, there would have been a Labour member's bill eventually, and it would have passed handily. All he did was give the process a help along.
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I reckon the target market for the advert is middle-aged voters who want to be reassured that the police are "doing something about yoof".
In much the same way that military recruitment ads are about inspiring patriotic old codgers and making them feel Safe From the Japs (who own their retirement home and made their car), rather than actually recruiting young people.
I learned it from The Hollow Men (the TV show, not the book). It must be true.
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