Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: About Arie

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  • Bart Janssen, in reply to HORansome,

    There are no circumstance where, if Arie was beaten by a police officer and that act means the end of that officer’s career, that such a loss of job would be unjust.

    You are so certain. More certain than I could ever be I'm sorry.

    Of course we demand our police perform to a standard most of us could not hope to maintain. Of course if an officer caused those injuries they will lose their job. But one blow could cause that black eye, one strike, one moment where the strain of the past couple of days caused a loss of control.

    I don't know what happened. I'm not excusing police brutality. I'm demanding an investigation.

    But I won't condemn yet, and I believe it is possible that an otherwise good person struck once, and that they will lose their job for that would IMO be unjust.

    People rushed to condemn Aire, so certain that all looters are scum ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3266 posts Report Reply

  • James Butler, in reply to Che Tibby,

    It appears that, still, no one has had the nerve to ask who beat him.

    please god, let it be Collins herself.

    She'll need to know so she can hand them a commendation. </snark>

    Auckland • Since Jan 2009 • 801 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Foreign police officers have left their families to volunteer to come to Christchurch to support.

    OIC. Aussie police. that makes all the sense in the world.

    personal experience tell me those people actually are thugs.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2024 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to DCBCauchi,

    No, I don't think I am. I am making a separate claim than the one that the institutions are inherently violent.

    What claim is it? Other than basically saying that liberals who may feel some outrage at what is likely to have happened here are raging hypocrites? I don't think there is room for that kind of glibness in this story, to be entirely honest.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7351 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Whoops. Turned a page at an unfortunate time there.

    Just to reiterate the key point of the message from Arie’s lawyer on the previous page: it looks like an assault by police officers on Arie will be acknowledged and investigated.

    But they were NOT New Zealand police officers.

    Edit: Lew Stoddart has pointed out on Twitter that the Australia police who came here were sworn in as NZ officers. So technically, they are NZ cops.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18715 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Russell Brown,

    But I can still be angry at Michael Laws, right?

    If you weren't permanently, I'd be most severely displeased.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11867 posts Report Reply

  • Sue,

    still at no point in the system did anyone ask about his health, and question his behaviour. I'm reasonably sure the entire system was not filled with overseas police officers.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 471 posts Report Reply

  • Berry Binnie, in reply to nzlemming,

    Jeez............

    Nelson • Since Mar 2010 • 5 posts Report Reply

  • Brian Murphy,

    One hopes that this/these particular NOT New Zealand Police Officers are no longer in New Zealand at the very least.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 42 posts Report Reply

  • JackElder,

    But they were NOT New Zealand police officers.

    So it looks like, as Danyl pointed out, that they were playing good cop, Australian cop.

    Wellington • Since Mar 2008 • 708 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby,

    assuming it was an aussie cop, here’s an indication of what they can be like.

    in melbourne, a friend’s girlfriend gave a flatmate a dressing down (long story, no-one was in the right). the flatmate phoned his dad, a 20-year NSW policeman, who drove down from sydney, smashed his way through a locked door and assaulted my friend. he made demands to “go get the bitch so we can sort her out” (she’d bolted when the cop broke into the house).

    this included threats to “put him in a hole in the ground”, and “throw him in the slammer to be raped” when friend wouldn’t go find her.

    melbourne police refused to press charges, dismissing the incident and my friend’s testimony as “unlikely”. they also destroyed all records.

    here’s hoping none of these guys were sworn here, aeh?

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2024 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Che Tibby,

    here’s hoping none of these guys were sworn here, aeh?

    Of course they were.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7351 posts Report Reply

  • Andre Alessi, in reply to Russell Brown,

    But I can still be angry at Michael Laws, right?

    Is there ever a time not to be angry at Lhaws?

    Devonport, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 859 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Russell Brown,

    technically, they are NZ cops.

    That's pretty arguable. Being sworn to the office of constable doesn't make them NZ cops, it gives them the powers of NZ cops. They're still employed by their various parent police forces in Australia.

    Otherwise the various special constables within the NZ legal landscape, such as Fire Police, are also "NZ cops" since they have all the legal status of a constable when acting in their official capacity.

    The pit from whence crawl… • Since Mar 2007 • 3898 posts Report Reply

  • Damian Christie,

    The Minister of Police, explicitly soliciting violence, possibly rape

    Late to this one, sorry. I remember hearing some time back Mark Bennett on Radio Pacific making much the same comment regarding some equally (relatively) trivial offence - sort 'em out in jail, let him be someone's girlfriend inside etc.

    I would never normally bother, but in this case I wrote in and pointed out what he was saying - suggesting violent rape was a fitting punishment.

    I wonder - and this is certainly not to excuse a Minister of the Crown who should always be held to a higher standard in her public comments - whether this concept is really just a form of shorthand - "they'll get theirs", or perhaps "karma, dude" - and if reminded of what they're actually suggesting, they suddenly realise how ridiculous it is.

    (Much like the arguments I had with many who suggested that stabbing to death was a suitable punishment for tagging... Um, are you sure? How about just think that through for a minute...)

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1128 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    here’s hoping none of these guys were sworn here, aeh?

    Of course they were.

    Exactly. They were brought here to supplement the NZ Police resources available, so being sworn to give them the powers and protections of constables is entirely appropriate.

    Of course they also brought the particular systemic dysfunctions that pervade their parent society, which includes corruption and brutality on a scale to make even Clint Rickards look like a saint. It's fortunate that, the AOS notwithstanding, we don't have armed cops patrolling Christchurch. If nzlemming finds Kiwi cops with guns scary, I hate to think what they'd make of armed Aussie cops on NZ streets.

    The pit from whence crawl… • Since Mar 2007 • 3898 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Just to reiterate the key point of the message from Arie’s lawyer on the previous page: it looks like an assault by police officers on Arie will be acknowledged and investigated.

    Good. I expect the NZ police to have zero tolerance for this sort of shit. I am glad they are meeting that expectation.

    But they were NOT New Zealand police officers.

    Also good. But its going to mean a more dificult investigation, and the need for extradition if a case can be made.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1630 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    Demanding prosecutions is prejudging the outcome of the investigation as determining who committed the assault with sufficient certainty to support such a prosecution. Which is a dangerous leap to make, since it leads one to conclude that the only possible explanation for there being no forthcoming prosecution is the Police covering for their own.

    Or that they're incompetant. Neither is acceptable.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1630 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Just to reiterate the key point of the message from Arie’s lawyer on the previous page: it looks like an assault by police officers on Arie will be acknowledged and investigated.

    But they were NOT New Zealand police officers.

    Would that make it a diplomatic incident, then?

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4161 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    Aussie cops bought into NZ allegedly beating a young man with Aspergers for acting out his obsession is surely a huge story, but I guess it goes against the narrative huh?

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1721 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby, in reply to Gareth Ward,

    I guess it goes against the narrative huh?

    indeed. these men are HEROES!! heroes i say!!1!

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2024 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Idiot Savant,

    Or that they’re incompetant. Neither is acceptable.

    Or there's insufficient solid evidence to support prosecution. Which speaks not at all to the competence of the investigator(s), and everything to preserving the integrity of concepts such as due process and rule of law.
    But that wouldn't support your narrative that only a prosecution is an acceptable outcome.

    The pit from whence crawl… • Since Mar 2007 • 3898 posts Report Reply

  • Scott A, in reply to DeepRed,

    Would that make it a diplomatic incident, then?

    They're cops, not diplomats. And, in the terms of the broader New Zealand - Australian relationship narrative, hardly one to go withdrawing embassies over.

    But we really do need some MSM to pick up on this part of the story, ASAP, so that it doesn't just disappear.. I'd also be sure the overseas officers involved will be slipped out of the country as soon as possible, time is of the essence here to get a strong light shone on this assault. Left too much longer then all we'll end up with that the "the investigation into this regrettable incident has met a dead-end due to uncertainty who the officers involved were as they have left the country."

    The wilds of Kingston, We… • Since May 2009 • 119 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward, in reply to Che Tibby,

    indeed. these men are HEROES!! heroes i say!!1!

    Yes, sir. Whatever you say sir. No sir, you can put the telephone book away sir.

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1721 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    Or there's insufficient solid evidence to support prosecution. Which speaks not at all to the competence of the investigator(s)

    I expect the police to find that solid evidence. It is, to put it bluntly, their fucking job.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1630 posts Report Reply

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