Riiiiiiiight!

Which reminds me of a time I saw Christchurch customs officers, obviously bored with their?

It's not often I wholeheartedly agree with Winston Peters...

And there you've lost me, Russell... Sorry, but if Peters wants to pontificate about the 'corruption of politics' in New Zealand, then I think we should line up the people he's slandered under parliamentary privilege, and count how many times his?

Names are not supposed to be published until the court first reviews the issue.

Grey area at best Andrew – there's also nothing actually preventing publication until a court first reviews the issue.

Grey area at best Andrew – there's also nothing actually preventing publication until a court first reviews the issue.

Fair point, Graeme. But I think it might be equally fair comment to compare and contrast how quickly Millie Holmes hit the headlines as opposed to a certain former TV3 newsreader.?

Most of us probably also missed an amazing piece of analysis by Brian Gaynor in the Business Herald last Saturday. The picture he drew, from information?

No doubt this is mentioned in one of those links above, but where do the Fay Rich Whites live these days?

By the way. What should we do to the passports of the politicians who sold state owned monopolies to?

But I'm hardly going to place a lot of stock in the fact that as part of the settlement they don't have to admit liability. The uncontested facts of the TranzRail story are damning enough.

Well, fair enough – just as there are (I would respectfully suggest) people who don't?

. . . tens of thousands of beneficiaries who've clearly received money they're not entitled to . . .

Tens of thousands? Is that right? Got a link for that?

Making more money than anyone could ever spend, without producing anything tangible...it sure would be nice, but I?

when do certain pollies have to pony up and answer a few questions about all this.

Well, I am sure Richard Prebble could give us a few more funny and timely anecdotes about the inefficiencies of NZ Rail during his glorious days of control there.

Rogan, they were doing for?

If you can buy your way out of an?

It is precisely these sorts of envy politics that force great entrepreneurs such as Fay and Richwhite to flee the country to more welcoming shores, and should they ever want to return, be compelled to purchase islands off New Zealand's shore.

:-)

It wouldn't be so bad if they'd done?

The $20 million payment to end the Securities Commission's case against them was less than a third of what they made selling off TranzRail shares in 2002

They could have been fined $100 millions if they had been convicted of insider trading and done possible jail time. They were able?

Serious question.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=316&objectid=12689

Even Brian's own list of columns on his company website doesn't include it. It should be required reading for all immigration officials I think!

Cheers

Paul

Here's Sinner:

This whole thing just goes to show how much Labour has destroyed NZ's respect for hard work and?

It is precisely these sorts of envy politics that force great entrepreneurs such as Fay and Richwhite...

That's got nothing to do with why people hate Fay and Richwhite.

They're hated because of the complete lack of integrity with which they pursued their ruthless greed. They shafted people and businesses?

http://www.nz-lawsoc.org.nz/lawtalk/685Crim%20Proceeds.htm
The Serious Fraud Office would be able to seek a High Court order?

Can someone who has Juha's contact details please let him know Craig appears to have gained access to his PublicAddress account?

Sorry, could you please leave me all the way out of the random crossfire? While I don't carry any water for Fay and Richwhite, could I be forgiven for?

Does any of the above make me a nasty right-wing beneficiary basher?

Not at all. It was the tens-of-thousands making-shit-up from your earlier post. If one wanted to be hard-arsed, there are times when you come across as a real piece of work.

. . . the maze of entitlements and regulations that is WINZ . . .

What does any of this have to do with Fay and Richwhite, anyway? Spuriously linking their situation with the old tory shibboleth of bludging beneficiaries reveals something of the patrician contempt and loathing that underlay?

If one wanted to be hard-arsed, there are times when you come across as a real piece of work.

Sheesh guys – Craig's daily shtick is to play the old game of 'who are you to criticise Don Brash/George Bush/the Son of Sam when you have failed to speak out?

I'm still surprised by the blowback.

As I said, if one wanted to be hard-arsed. It's not an option I'd be regularly inclined to take, but when it's done with blatant dishonesty in the guise of providing some kind of conservative balance, it should be called out for what it?

Does any of the above make me a nasty right-wing beneficiary basher?

As I said once before, your podcasts changed my perspective, you sound much less nasty in real life :-) I think was somewhat taken aback by your comparisons between F&R and beneficiaries.

It wasn't just about the 'tens of thousands' for me. Was once in a situation where I thought I could be prosecuted?

Sorry, will try not to lower the tone again.

Introducing the WINZ red herring wasn't your doing, paula. It's my own recollections of more than one elderly individual going without food while being too proud to inform their relatives under Shipley's 'market rentals' scam that tends to get me exercised?

Shipley's 'market rentals' scam that tends to get me exercised about cynical beneficiary bashing.

And the introduction of the accommodation supplement that gets paid to?

And the introduction of the accommodation supplement that gets paid to?
Darn I can't stop myself. Lowering the tone *ALERT* Steven do you?

In 1996 Housing New Zealand revalued its rental stock upwards by NZ$2.9 billion. It
was able to do this because it had raised its rents to ?market? levels. Housing New Zealand
then borrowed $200 million which was paid to?

And why exactly does 'what the public are interested in' qualify as 'in the public interest'? Or are you saying it does not need to be in?

I guess we (people who own a rental property) are all bastard scum, one step below Fay & Richwite. (which was the original topic)

Not so, nothing is wrong with residential rental property investment per-say. It's when 8.5 billion dollars gets injected into it by way of government subsidy.

The benefactors?

The short answer is YES some land lords are criminal scum.

The critical word here being some?
As are some beneficiaries, some clergy, and possibly a few lady bowlers.
As long as we're not out to score points by unfairly demonizing any particular group I guess it's an exercise in?

Or are you saying it does not need to be in the public interest to qualify as news?

We come to this site for points of view and information, and Russell was making the point that we came in greater numbers when a celebrity drug scandal happened to be the?

Not true Steven. The Accommodation Supplement gets paid to the Beneficiary not the Landlord. Landlords are lobbying to have the supplement paid directly to them because some beneficiaries don't pay their rent but claim the supplement anyway.

The impact has been curbed with a return to a sensible state housing?

Was this a case where buying NZ wasn't the best thing for the country?

I don't dispute that Landlords benefited with the introduction of the Accommodation Supplement, because it obviously added to the number of people who could afford private rental housing. But don't blame the landlords who are filling the void left by 'limited' State Housing stock.

Rents are determined?

. . . why do people think once they've got a state house they're entitled to live there forever? (But that's a whole other subject).

Riiiight, the old culture of entitlement – assuming it's not a question of How Dare They, those folks whose abilities limit their expectations to providing?

. . . why do people think once they've got a state house they're entitled to live there forever? (But that's a whole other subject).

What makes you think more than a tiny fraction do? The turnover rate for State Houses is huge. HUGE! However, the average tenure in a?

Housing, particuarly for low income people, is a matter of fear and the potential (and often actual) exploitation of fear. Low?

Typically they're little old ladies whose kids left home in the 1950s, and whose husbands died years ago. HNZC would no doubt, dearly love to rehome thse people, to smaller properties, & free up the larger ones for larger families.

As far as I am aware, in Auckland you are unable?

Finance Minister Michael Cullen has backed a call to "ring-fence" losses on investment properties – meaning they could no longer be offset against other income such as wages and salaries – but few other parties appear warm to the idea.

If Cullen can get this thru then he will make?

So currently, what's called overcrowding is anything over the number of adults, + 1. That's just for reporting purposes though.

to clarify... that is if the number of adults + 1 is more than the number of bedrooms, the property is consiodered overcrowding.

Or something like that :) And they?

I don't dispute that Landlords benefited with the introduction of the Accommodation Supplement, because it obviously added to the number of people who could afford private rental housing. But don't blame the landlords who are filling the void left by 'limited' State Housing stock.

The problem (well, one of them)?

A good solid home (of?

Of course, with all those houses coming on to the market at the same time prices must fall, surely?

You'd think so. And as Russell pointed out, you'd also expect rental prices to go up around the same time. Various outlets have been reporting evidence of an oversupply in the?

Crown Control to Farmer John
Crown Control to Farmer John
Take your planning consent and put it up your bum

Crown Control to Farmer John
Tenure review is all but gone
Check your balance sheet and may God?s love be with you

Spoken:
Ten, Nine, Eight,?

I think it's more complex than that.

Yup, but I've found I need to talk in generalisations or otherwise my comments end up really long.

depreciating everything in sight and waiting for the capital gain.

At which point you have to pay back the depreciation claimed because it didn't depreciate – it?

RIP Big Matt – a truly great man who will never be forgotten

Moving away from the ownership issue.

Govt handouts to make houses safe is an investment in savings on the health budget and a further investment in the productivity of the nation.

The bottom line?

Wanna bet? They might like to have strict rules, but believe me, they don't. They cannot move you at all – unless (! exception #1), they're having to demolish &/or redevelop a site. They have no rules regarding overcrowding either.

Actually, yes, I do 'wanna bet'. A close relative of mine?

We need to raise the obligation of Property Investors to supply & maintain safe insulated housing.

Will those expenses be tax deductible under the "ring fence" regime? If not, why would landlords bother?

If tax changes take the heat out of the housing market, I say go for it. I have?

And until recently I was their Information Manager for 7 years.

"indeed, have to move people based on a) underutilisation and b) overcrowding."

Overcrowding they can address -?

"We transferred 410 tenants to homes more suited to their needs, freeing up 491 bedrooms for families in need."

These tenants weren't obliged, or forced to move, they either wanted to, were persuaded to, or by chance just happened to.

Many experienced investors are sitting on cash reserves waiting for the crash so they can swoop in and pick up cheap properties. Olly Newland is one who admits it.

And hopefully not a big chunk of public housing, should government
relapse.

I have a suspicion however that it would be similar to the Reserve Banks intervention in the currency markets. Fiddling at the margins.

However it is done, this is a problem that needs to be fixed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_housing_bubble
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0703/S00615.htm

the last HNZC annual report states that the number of underutilised homes (where the household count + 1 is less than the number of bedrooms), is 4%. That definition by its nature is pretty iffy though.

The report also states this:

Strategies to increase the supply of rental?

There's a quite hilarious letter in this morning's NZ Herald from someone who thinks people shouldn't knock FR because they started with?

but I bet that's a CYA maneouvre by management.

And I am telling you quite catagorically, that it is not. I didn't get that from a "close friend", I got that from being an HNZC manager for 7 years..

If your friend the tenancy manager says s/he does otherwise, I?

Hmmm. So you had enough money to pay a deposit and meet the mortgage payments? Methinks [presuming you didn't win Lotto/inheritance] you should have been required to leave a State House at the point your?

Can you shed any further light on this requirement for flatmates/boarders? Do you have to find your own or do they assign one to you?! Sounds bizzare! And what about the?

Cost Benefit is still being done but initial results point to a 2/3rds saving on heating in a fully insultated house in Dunness.

Fuel Poverty indicates Christchurch having the?

I got so sniffy about this transfer-agreement policy that I rang said relative, who clarified: yes, tenants must agree (aha! so I am wrong, sorry!),

No sweat – I was wondering if the policy had changed since I left last year.

but in over a decade my particular relative has?

You can find your own flatmates – HNZ aren't that draconian!

And on a light note – you're maybe thinking of Corrections :)

I, on the other hand, would respectfully suggest that there are huge communication problems between tenancy managers and Housing New Zealand management,

and in the same vein... You might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment! :)

KUMBAYA
Traditional. Adapted and arranged by Robert DeCormier,
Peter Yarrow, Noel Paul Stookey and Mary Travers.
© 1998 Mapape Lake Music Publishing – ASCAP

Sues anti smaking bill is one whos time had come.
There is no better demonstration of this than the amazing accord of Green, Labour, National, Untied Future (he he), Maori – have I missed anyone? I mean was?

Bryan you haven't added to the thread you've just complained, are you a British immigrant?

S'funny, it seemed to me that Brian made a damned good point about the rather strange direction that this thread's taken.
If you were attempting a joke with your 'British immigrant' reference, I'm afraid it?

Even though this action related to a separate episode in the Tranz Rail soap opera it is worth noting that the Brian Gaynor analysis from August 28, 1999 "Winebox winners and losers"

Thanks Paul Brislen, RB and others for mentioning it.?

I was very upset by a lanky snooty sounding boy who wanted total control of all the toys in the sandpit.

Michael?

S'funny, it seemed to me that Brian made a damned good point about the rather strange direction that this thread's taken.

Masterful bit of derailment by Craig at the start – chuck a bit of beneficiary bashing in at the start, off the discussion goes at a tangent.

Interesting to?

Jason, my mention of time should have been 'circa' 50 years ago, not "over". Sir Michael F-F-Fay would have been about 8yrs if I figure that I was about 7.
His father was a well respected man in?

arrest the bastards at the border. I'm not fussy what for. My objections to them are moral, rather than strictly legal

There where some of Russell"s expressions of anger about the Immorality of Fay and Richwhite.

This thread has discussed questions of Government relationships to privet business and morality issues?

I thought that (page 2 post) was something you made up, a story, not the bitterness of an 8yr old held onto for 50years.

Spot the oxymoron "His father was a well respected man in Insurance and Michael appeared to enjoy the importance."

My bias is against 'Salty?

Otherwise we're just venting?

I assume that you're speaking for yourself there.

In the context of the F&R 'settlement' the focus on supposed welfare cheats appears as a cynical attempt to recast discussion of the case as a Politics of Envy issue.
As for what more can be said that hasn't?

You oscillate from thinking I made up a story to thinking that I am having an undignified outpouring of long-held envy. Very misjudged on both counts.
For what it is worth, I abhor the behaviour of many of my contemporaries. Those who played Monopoly during their childhood, and?

(and scroll back and look at my comments. I made various attempts to stay on topic, and my derision of FR is clear)

I'd suggest that a little more open and robust discussion is warranted

and what have you (or?

. . . scroll back and look at my comments. I made various attempts to stay on topic, and my derision of FR is clear . . .

Like, for example:

Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

A bit deep for?

So deep I'm having trouble remembering the point I was trying to make — but I do remember it was very funny at the time. Just can't remember why for the moment (even tho' I'm still laughing now).

I get my meds on Monday,?

I get my meds on Monday, when the nursing staff are back on deck ...

Good luck – maybe I'll have found my cardie by then.

Michael: stay?

As someone closer to 1/2 your age can I suggest you learn to let go.

As someone closer to twice your age can I suggest that you learn that not everyone reads the same thing the same way.
I did not?

]]> Sun, 24 Jun 2007 18:36:38 +1200 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-arrest-the-bastards-at-the-border/?p=21540#post21540 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-arrest-the-bastards-at-the-border/?p=21540#post21540

I thought that (page 2 post) was something you made up, a story, not the bitterness of an 8yr old held onto for 50years.

Sorry, I don't understand your reaction either. It was an interesting anecdote. Jeez ...

Ancient History: the sins of Fay, Richwhite.

Always Remembered: the sin of Trevor Chappell.

"Nothing Michael Fay has done since has given me any cause to remove him from my Personal List Of Bastards."

I'm not saying I couldn't hold one – just far too much hard work.

Live long & prosper

Having re-read the original post I am unable to see any mention of that topic.
I am looking forward to a future post on welfare accomodation fraud, so that those of you who know so much about housing might all be able to express some thoughts on Fay and Richwhite.

?

However, while all this is high-finance, celebrity-status money, Giltrap retains a sense of the common man and the art of being a Kiwi.

By inviting?