Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Belief Media

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  • Sacha, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    Ta. Still on a few sector committees myself. Our own ethics sometimes make it harder to oppose those without them.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Grigg, in reply to Lilith __,

    I was fascinated to read Philip Pullman’s The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ which might also interest some here. It re-imagines the life of Jesus as if lived by twin brothers, Jesus and Christ, one gentle and naive, the other political and unscrupulous. It’s full of surprises and raises some complex issues.

    It's actually sitting on my kindle - ironically awaiting my completion of a Dawkins book.

    The way the early church aggressively wrote, re-wrote, edited, deleted and manipulated the mythology, evidence and stories that have since become the various versions of the lore of the faithful has always fascinated me.

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3284 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to Sacha,

    aren’t most ‘role models’ stretching us beyond what we are?

    Dont think we can stretch to reach the supernatural or the realm of perfect being.
    Anyway jesus is a device/tool for the unscrupulous to fill that gap that they believe exists.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1891 posts Report Reply

  • Isabel Hitchings, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Certain Sounds, perhaps? They were a Christian rock band – or brand, really, given that the lineup changed from year to year – who toured schools.

    That's the one - ta.

    Christchurch • Since Jul 2007 • 719 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Simon Grigg,

    The way the early church aggressively wrote, re-wrote, edited, deleted and manipulated the mythology, evidence and stories that have since become the various versions of the lore of the faithful has always fascinated me.

    The Nag Hammadi Gnostic texts seem to indicate they stripped out all the feminine aspects...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Certain Sounds, perhaps?

    Stuff has an article on this sorta thang, I see...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    There are apocryphal gospels by both Marys, aren't there? I can't imagine why they weren't included. OH WAIT.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    Interesting conversation, as befits Public Address. Just reading Andrew Dubber's latest blog and he makes mention that PA is ten years old this week. Is that so?

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2562 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    From the Stuff article

    Young people in New Zealand are increasingly secularised, but some are finding religion interesting and attractive because they know so little about it.

    Which means they will learn about it? Umm no just join up...

    Churches are trying to connect with young people by using their language – social media and video.

    What do they speak a different language on social media and video?
    Boy is that lazy writing, much like what is being peddled in this "marketplace".

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1891 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart, in reply to Isabel Hitchings,

    I always thought it was a bit dodgy that they were allowed into state schools and given a captive audience.

    They let the Gideons show up at our school and hand out copies of the New Testament on a fairly regular basis. I was never sure how that was legit, either. Everyone always seemed a bit bemused by it.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Danielle,

    There are apocryphal gospels by both Marys, aren’t there? I can’t imagine why they weren’t included.

    And yet St John the Divine gets his book in! I never could figure out how.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3895 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Lilith __,

    And yet St John the Divine gets his book in! I never could figure out how.

    It seems to be a cornerstone of the more bloodthirsty end of Christianity that John the Divine/John of Patmos is one and the same as John the apostle, author of the fourth gospel. While the account of Jesus losing his rag over the forex traders in the temple occurs in all four gospels, it was John who used the phrase "my father's house", giving weight to the son of god thing. When it's presumed to be the same guy who describes the Jesus of revelations got up in a shirt red with the blood of his enemies, gentle Jesus meek 'n mild is just the entree.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    When it’s presumed to be the same guy who describes the Jesus of revelations got up in a shirt red with the blood of his enemies, gentle Jesus meek ’n mild is just the entree

    That's just craziness.

    Revelation is a throwback to some of the most bloodthirsty parts of the Old Testament with OTT creepiness added in. It's impossible to square it with the other gospels.

    What would heavy metal lyrics be, without the Book of Revelation, though?

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3895 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Geoff Lealand,

    Interesting conversation, as befits Public Address. Just reading Andrew Dubber’s latest blog and he makes mention that PA is ten years old this week. Is that so?

    Not this week. But it'll be 10 years in November.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Oh, good. Time to start planning the party?

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2562 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Grigg, in reply to Danielle,

    There are apocryphal gospels by both Marys, aren't there?

    You mean The Gospel of Mary?

    They've worked hard across the years since it was rediscovered to downplay it. It does rather play havoc with the core of especially the Catholic Church (as do other excluded gospels).

    And you can't have that - given the centuries of work that went in to fine tuning that story.

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3284 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Simon Grigg,

    . . . the centuries of work that went in to fine tuning that story.

    When the Vatican made Mary’s Assumption dogma,
    the crowds at San Pietro screamed Papá.
    The Holy Father dropped his shaving glass,
    and listened. His electric razor purred,
    his pet canary chirped on his left hand.
    The lights of science couldn’t hold a candle
    to Mary risen – at one miraculous stroke,
    angel-wing’d, gorgeous as a jungle bird!
    But who believed this? Who could understand?
    Pilgrims still kissed Saint Peter’s brazen sandal.
    The Duce’s lynched, bare, booted skull still spoke.
    God herded his people to the coup de grâce -
    the costumed Switzers sloped their pikes to push,
    O Pius, through the monstrous human crush…

    Robert Lowell
    “Beyond the Alps”

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade,

    Anyway jesus is a device/tool for the unscrupulous to fill that gap that they believe exists

    The Jesus stories are so socially consuming they may as well be examined. Jesus , in the story, was smashing very important things up (literally) , he dangerously stands up for one of the lowest members of his society and he does a bunch of other selfless sweet things. But you are right , his chapter is the gateway to a whole bunch of other tacked on chapters that will have stories that will make your skin crawl.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    Media 7. The Hauraki story was interesting. I gather the need to pay for a boat and get a station on air overode the morals of where the money came from ;-). Was usury charged? Did the broadcasting of CBA sourced material just last until it sunk???

    I am having difficulty in figuring out why there should be an acceptance of religion "because it is part of 'their' culture". It arose in a conversation last night as I was talking to a primary principal. She mentioned that the JWs insist their children do not partake in the daily karakiha. We moved onto how the school deals with the increasing religions of refugees and immigrants. Does the school provide a prayer room? " No, but we would find room?. Why? "Because it is part of their culture". After a bit of toing and froing it was difficult to figure out why religion "should" be concidered part of culture.

    Of course, I then reached into Wiki to find out what 'culture' was/is. Apparently it seems to have changed its meaning over the last 150 years. Now it is more attached to anthropological issues, and thus, to 'culture'.

    I can't help thinking this attachment of religion to culture is a bit like the ID crowd trying to move in to main stream science.

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1590 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    Good Media 7. The editor of the Challenge Weekly had a line in platitudes and Randerson could have been taken to task for his wholesale dismissal of Dawkins, but an interesting discussion.

    Responded to the SST poll this week (it fills in an idle moment) about belief in god. My problem with the question was 'which god?' for there seems to be a myriad of them. Scuentologists, for example. They claim the status of religion (and receive tax exemption). What is their concept of 'god'?

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2562 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade, in reply to Geoff Lealand,

    Yeh, there is a problem there. Our inability to expand the god concept away from popular pre-written scriptures, without absolutely insulting cultures, is an equation that seems sometimes wrong to solve.

    Which is twisted.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    Heh. Lets cruise the other interesting sites on a sunday night.

    Sciblogs with a link to GodZone Movie Maker - Michael Wilson

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1590 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to Ross Mason,

    can’t help thinking this attachment of religion to culture is a bit like the ID crowd trying to move in to main stream science

    Nah more like a collective thumb sucking.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1891 posts Report Reply

  • Martin Lindberg, in reply to andin,

    can’t help thinking this attachment of religion to culture is a bit like the ID crowd trying to move in to main stream science

    Nah more like a collective thumb sucking.

    Could you two be any more condescending if you actually tried?

    Stockholm • Since Jul 2009 • 802 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Jeremy Eade,

    without absolutely insulting cultures

    not a problem for some

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

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