i) The persistent pushing of "evidence that smaller class sizes make no difference" the qualification to this got lost in transmission. Smaller class sizes make less than expected difference, most probably due to teaching methods?

ROFL! (&LMAO)

Basically, Treasury are ACT in permanent government. Why Labour didn't disestablish the lot of them during their nine years of government escapes me.

Or the Saturday before that: http://pundit.co.nz/content/doing-the-herald-editors-job-for-him

Even Maurice Williamson, who looked the other way while the broadband market remained monopolised, once called for Treasury to have a ?cleanout??

Mr Williamson says Treasury is also?

The devil you know...
I still?

Bravo.

FWIW, Roughan is one of the stable of editorial writers. Working out out which ones are by him is a game I like to play at home.

Oh, quite. Whether it should be actively shopping policy like this is another matter.

Fair enough. In my experience, they mightn't be ?shopping? policy, they could, but they could equally just be reviving advice from the past, advice that's not politically expedient, in the hope that circumstances change (which means?

I would not dispute Hattie?s expertise in matters of education, indeed I much admire what he has tried to do with his book.

Like any form of statistics, meta-analysis involves data manipulation and for the most part there are agreed rules to which most researchers adhere. This is?

Apparently they've held this view since 2009, but if they had any firmer ideas on how?

I reckon he almost certainly wrote this crackpot editorial
recently calling for the Northern Busway to be turned into another lane for cars, given?

I think I understand this to?

The strength of the reaction from our intermediate school in Christchurch was quite sufficient to convince me of the stupidity of the original proposal.
On a related train of thought, it?

But here is the table that scores the best to worst for the influences on student acheivement.

Table 2. A sample of 46 influences on student achievement?

I would love to see Treasury gutted of its policy advice role and that function moved to a contestable, external tendering process where the government can ensure it gets top advice with contractual SLA's as an incentive to get it right.?

"In terms of education, fundamentally there that is a debate about what is the right?

Improving the performance of senior managers and governors across the economy (including Treasury's?

the other central agencies are the State Services Commission and the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet

which the current govt wanted to merge with, you guessed it, Treasury.

I think it's really important that the debate around?

[Edit: as also pointed?

Ta for the list. Interestingly it was the feedback study I had the most issue with as Hattie lumps Motor-skill research in with Ed research. I seem to also recall that he makes no distiction between long/short term effects and concepts such as task transfer.

Ha! I must have missed that (having been out of the country for a few years). If we want to preserve any semblance of an apolitical public service, the State Service Commission's functions would seem to not quite?

How many students, and why, do you exclude from your NCEA results at levels 1, 2 and 3?

The school?

And that is the problem with such studies. For most of the factors listed there are strong interdependencies. Any statistician will tell you that the moment you have variables that?

Yes The "his fevered imagination" Gardens

Sure! I don't think the Treasury is quite as political as some here have?

Like shooting fish in a barrel. You simply pick the rough un.

Regarding class size ? well, the evidence appears to show that smaller?

Are you sure? My guess is that such measures exist, they may not be simplistic enough for politicians or herald editors though.

Kind of question it might be worth asking a graduate with a degree in education.

That's what charter schools are for. In poor areas only, of course.

I understand the most recent PISA results are out and indicate that NZ school children are in the top five country's across the board. And NZ schools are in the bottom five of funding.
Perhaps?

Are you sure? My guess is that such measures exist, they may not be simplistic enough for politicians or herald editors though.

Kind of question it might be worth asking a graduate with a degree in education.

Hmmm trust me this is harder than it looks most measures conflate likeability?

Now if they can at least do an audit on the Roads of National Significance, they'll go some way to earning back some respect.

Come to think of it... maybe there's no need?

I?m always amused to find logical failures in basic precepts. For example, that comment is based on some fundamentally flawed assumptions: (A) sometimes, something John Roughan writes would not be embarrassing* and (B) he has the intellectual capacity for embarrassment.

Anyway, look at his hair ??

God, I didn't even read that nonsense beyond the blurb. "Look, don't get me wrong, I'm not a bigot – I'm quite reasonable and, really, some of my?

I think it is a case of delving deeper than the kneejerks. Having a look at the list it is striking that of?

These numbers are being quoted as if they're regression coefficients .. which they may be. But in what units? I'd be interested in seeing them converted to dollars. As in, how many dollars does it take to buy one?

Onya. Autism NZ are setting up a formal peer mentoring scheme for aspies. Don't really know details.

Key apparently bandying attack lines today about those teachers being doddery "Aunty Betty" characters. Dick.

Which is a highly political viewpoint.

Fundamentally, the structural set up?

What's worse is these numbers are being quoted as if they are real. I personally think the meta analysis is likely to be shown to be a crock of shite. There are some serious red flags in the list that?

The Union for Pontificators might have something to say about us taking Duncan Garner's job. That man's passion for declaring winners and losers?

Is it that clear? I'm not arguing that the key?

When addressing the issue of reducing class size, it seems important to investigate the underlying motivations for teachers and parents. For example, the synthesis of meta-analyses indicated that the presence of disruptive students (even one of them) in?

I think it's more a case of where ideology and the tools of analysis considered acceptable by Treasury (or even mandated in legislation, public service guides etc) and politics overlap, rather than Treasury being political. (Maybe I'm giving them too much credit.) Examples of?

Thanks for that – a good read. On austerity,?

What aspect of Calvinism you are referring to?

If you're so moved — and don't feel obliged to — you can throw a?

My thoughts exactly, but not as artfully articulated!

The National government has an admirable aim of lifting student achievement, and has come up with three solutions: national standards, performance pay and increasing class sizes (in exchange for more professional development). They have also plunged into?

But the only way you would get such a large difference between class?

what does that mean?

Maybe. Not sure what the government's argument was.

Still, what Hattie seems to be saying is that there is no sense in putting the cart before the horse. For smaller class sizes to have a substantially positive?

It means it's all very well having smaller class sizes but if they make no difference to learning outcomes then they are a waste of money.

I particularly like the Wicked Problems. Dworkin humanised.

Are asset sales on a collision course with reality? Or just lipstick on a pig?

They'll be even cheaper to buy back if a new Govt unleashes the Commerce Commission on the privatised assets. How's this for a?

When I studied (a few years ago now) I was quite taken by Funtowicz and Ravetz's concept of Post Normal Science where they tried to drag science and society's direction together in a structured way – a lot of similarities with 'wicked' problems.

I like the analysis as?

You'd have to figure out a different way of selecting politicians. We select for people who can shout down hecklers in public meetings and who can appeal to the lowest common denominator. We select political game players and are?

+2.

Unlike other blogs/communities, reading every comment is necessary and informative (and effectively a prerequisite for adding comments which is why I sometimes dip out of the dialogue, not a complaint, just an observation).

How do we do that though? I've never seen it play out that way. We certainly select bullshitters who look good in media.

But it does give you insight, doesn't it? Some kids will be doing?

I mean we select for people who can look/sound good to the RSA meeting and the local Lions and the local PTA and the local womens group and the local League club and the local business?

There's 22 in my 7 year old daughters Yr 2/3 composite class (Yrs 1 and 2 in NSW terms) and it feels about right (I think the lived-experience is an entirely?

Thanks Paul. Although the point still stands – he's not going to like his mother there any more than his father!

Matthew, agreed. Listening to Parliament right now, two things strike me. One, the PM's seriously struggling. Two,?

please do (not that I'm biased)

I'm sure we'll get onto that, Matthew :-)

BTW, I don't think I've mentioned that our third?

I love those names! No worries at all.

With Key he is just so great that legal constraints – the law ? doesn?t present any issue – nor are the objects of an Act of Parliament anything to be?

At risk of sounding like a politicians' apologist, characterisations like this and others made in this thread, in my experience seriously understate the abilities of many (but obviously not?

I very much agree. The easy vilification of people who stand for office is?

NZ corruption would be having written the answers on one's arm in a school test.
Aussie corruption would be having one's political opponents murdered and buried in the concrete of a new motorway.

Who needs marauding soldiers when there's the TPPA in its current form?

Yes, and we need them to vote too. That would happen more if people understood that some politicians actually justified the effort.

The concentration of wealth in a tiny proportion of the population?

like the Auditor General?

What really bugs me is the assumption that "career politicians" are a bad thing.?

And the Ombudsman's Office, if it wasn't so (deliberately?) overworked and understaffed.

(The Herald's) John Armstrong agrees with you.

That office is the independent parliamentary watchdog of how public money is spent. It thinks very carefully before making an investigation. The sight of politicians treating the office as little more than a nuisance is disturbing.

Fair cop. But I was responding to the desire that political discussions were as nuanced and considered as they are here. I certainly accept there are some talented and dedicated politicians however what we see?

I agree but I don't know what would work well. Any overseas examples?

That is a problem. Democracy is a terrible system just better than the other options. Same for peer review, which sucks but is better than anything else that has been tried.

Seriously, I don't think the problem is entirely with the democracy?

heh and in the book I read the response was that if you didn't vote you couldn't be a citizen (and vice versa). That meant some benefits of citizenship would be denied.

Not sure where I stand on that idea but it's a?

Absolutely not. Abstention is a perfectly valid option as a vote against the system (as merc says) or a vote of no confidence in any of the parties or candidates on offer.

I doubt it would cost that much in the overall scheme of things.

To me, 'mandatory voting' suggests that perhaps even that option would not be available. In any case, it'd be nice to pointedly not go into the voting booth at all. And?

I have always wanted to start the Informal Party. No fees. Tell everyone to make their vote?

Tautoko!

– Total Power to Plunder Aotearoa
– Thieves Protecting Patent Abuse

But the crowd source I want to see disappear is the "Muttering Classes' in Parliament, the echoers and barracking posse that wells up behind each speaker. It is?

Indeed. It only aggravates the glaring inconsistency between the hard line on asset sales, and the backdown on class sizes and possibly even the AG's probe?

Then, each non-voter would get a letter/email informing them who they had autovoted for. Being told you'd voted for?

These are the "them" that you just assured me were actually decent dedicated people? Or is it just the environment of The House that stimulates that behaviour?

That's just mean.

But fundamentally it is us v them. I mean, really, I understand why this isn't something people shout?

Interesting parallel – especially if the public-political engagement is what you were outlining in approaching 'wicked problems'

You caught me there!

But yes I think the environment has a huge influence on their behaviour, especially on new members of parliament.?

So if, for instance, a future left-wing government wanted to put up higher-rate tax in the second year of its term, it shouldn't be able to, because any consent it had for?

It's unpopular with the wealthy, and the many who have a deluded identification with the wealthy.

Didn't Labour have this as part of their policy in 1999?

Yes. Didn't seem to help them win the election.

I?

Sure, but I think it's more subtle than that. The major political forces in?

I would add that there are many who are not wealthy but have totally bought the ideology that (like John Key) anybody can 'make it'. There is a strong belief that taxing the wealthy?

Thanks for that Ian You reintroduced me to the writings of Skip Williamson sheer joy...