Public Broadcasting in The Digital Age – October 2007 (Russell Brown and Andrew Dubber) (PDF 235 KB)

New Zealanders'?

:-P

As C4 and MTV have become more youth-oriented lifestyle channels and shied away from playing music in prime time

Is this because people don't watch music videos any more, or because people prefer to get their music videos from youtube?

Beatles started out as pale imitators of US bands, they did OK in the end.
:-P

Touche!

Beatles started out as pale imitators of US bands, they did OK in the end.
:-P

Touche!

OMG! You're not Beliebers are you?

And the argument over NZ On Air funding?

"NZ On Air know they have to do some changes. There was a report done by Russell Brown and Andrew Dubber that was done on the future of online promotion and it?s?

What is intrinsically 'New Zealand' about New Zealand music--other than te reo Maori and Pacific Island influences, of course?

I defy you to point out a band that sounds like The Phoenix Foundation from anywhere else. Or The Chills for that matter. Or early Enz.

There is a thoroughly unique?

I defy you to point out a band that sounds like The Phoenix Foundation from anywhere else. Or The Chills for that matter. Or early Enz.

There is a thoroughly unique strand that goes through NZ pop which is almost continuous back to the mid sixties. On the extraordinary new?

in the meantime...

at the heart of the problem is that, even though it has edged in that direction over time, NZ On Air is not a music funding agency..

if it looks like a?

so is Isaac a limited liability company or a paid consultant to NZoA ?

The former.

and you're cool with this guy?

"He's got to go!
We all know dis,
We all know dis,
Only difference is,
He's not my mate,
Or someone i need to curry favour with,
So I scream it from the hilltops
But whats the point,
If no one else?

if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck and acts as the prime agency for funding music. It's a music funding agency duck.

But. It. Isn't.

It operates under the Broadcasting Act, and it was created as the Broadcasting Commission. Maybe that should change, but you wanting?

It's obvious you believe the net is the future for NZoA, so does Mark Kneebone when he name checks you, even though he thinks you're initial 2007 report is past it's use by date and doesnt agree with half of it anyay...something personal there ?

You really are determined to?

The other big point Duncan makes its that NZ On Air's mandate is unchanged since 2000 – now think how much the broadcast environment has changed and evolved since then. Radio is way way down on people's methods for discovering new music.

Yep — that's the key point Dubber and?

So, this change has been coming for nearly a decade that they still havent done zip to adjust? They can have the status quo, cos in a few years, it won't be worth squat. Leave the?

So what's the deal with the court case mentioned and why is it taking so long for the report to come out. Who's stalling and why ?

It's more that no one's backing down. The broadcasters and PPNZ have very different ideas about the proper level of rights fees from?

But. It. Isn't.

It operates under the Broadcasting Act, and it was created as the Broadcasting Commission.

explain ?... semantics, in that it funds?

I cna understand Chris Finlayson the Minister for Culture/heritage not having his head in the game cos he's too busy selling the Foreshore seabed "solution" but i hope someone's keeping score for him and he's capable of charging in to the ruck to free up the ball.

Ah, but again:?

Dawnraid didn't fund the vid/tune and no one twisted NZ on Air's arm in?

Wheres the court case at ?

No one is saying the system is working well. We are lucky to have some of the people who?

I defy you to point out a band that sounds like The Phoenix Foundation from anywhere else. Or The Chills for that matter. Or early Enz.

I know I was being provocative (have I been taking lessons from Robbie?) but I think it is a legitimate question. You hear it?

I know I was being provocative (have I been taking lessons from Robbie?) but I think it is a legitimate question. You hear it in The Phoenix Foundation; I don't (but I hear echoes of Arcade Fire and Grizzly Bear).

Well, we don't live on an island in a cultural?

FWIW, I hear the Fourmyula in Buffalo.

Quite, it's spookily like those wonderful bands that Peter Dawkins, Howard Gable and Alan Galbraith used to produce in EMI's Wellington studio for HMV, or, from Herne Bay, this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8gW-D3rkZA

Hard to see how 200 50k grants are justified in a world of home studios and downloadable music.

Maybe they could get Pharmac to branch out and negotiate for a nationwide site license for pro-tools ... or even better spend the money getting some local hackers to produce an open?

I hear it in the Patea Maori Club and Little Bushman.

I think we underestimate just how different and odd our indigenous pop, no matter the race, sounds to foreign ears, or at least the stuff that, as Russell points out earlier (did I say that? If I did I?

It's here.

. . . from Herne Bay . . .

Would that be Eldred Stebbing? Marvellous production, but for me that song will always be the freakishly phenomenal Aphrodite's Child, with Demis "Songs of the Humpback Whale" Roussos, and Vangelis, way back before Chariots of Fire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAAogBIiubc

I gather he has sent what he regards as the correct numbers to Sam and Duncan, and I'll happily run them here if that's what?

Would that be Eldred Stebbing? Marvellous production, but for me that song will always be the freakishly phenomenal Aphrodite's Child.

Yep, Eldred, who, with the less mentioned, but no less deserving, John Hawkins produced or mentored over 350 singles over a decade and half, so many of which were killers.?

Hell, he even managed to produce a good Gray Bartlett record or two.

Hush! Mention not his name Simon, lest he appear!

course I'm not funded, which seems to be the dividing line in the argument

for just a few I am sure I can be convinced its all good

There are ways now to get audiences involved in helping determine where funding support could go – alongside some multi-disciplinary expertise so it's not wall-to-wall pop/rock.

Can't pick winners any more than?

late entry – I've been working.

I think its easy to forget (or not know if you weren?t around/interested) how the NZ Music Industry has matured over the past couple of decades ?1995 ? 2005 in particular was an incredible ?coming of age? (not the only one, but the?

Hey, Duncan has kindly given the go-ahead to post the PDF of the whole story.

It's here.

Fuck me, it's like i could have written that, though not quite in so delicate terms, cos i been saying the same shit since i effectively got blacklisted by Brendan Smyth in 2001.?

I was especially trying to make it clear that NZoA are not responsible for the whole change, but that they did contribute to it.

Much more than contribute I'd argue. Up until the voluntary quotas were introduced in 2002 (when pop radio jumped from about 4% to 13% overnight) they?

spend the money getting some local hackers to produce an open source replacement

Me! Me! Me!

I've (with others) wanted to do an open source Ableton for a while, but the core engine requirement for that and Protools is similar. The problem (and why Audacity 1.3 has been stuck in?

"Of the 56 acts to receive funding in New Zealand on Air's March round, only one (Salmonella Dub) was based in the South Island. That is simply ridiculous. Not meaning to sound "regionalist" or anything (NZ On Air are always?

Sadly, I think in the years since they've become increasingly subservient to the needs and demands of commercial radio programmers, who really, should be kept out of any selection process altogether.

Of the 56 acts to receive funding in New Zealand on Air's March round, only one (Salmonella Dub) was?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjFO-803REc

HOMEBREW 4 LiFe !!!

Great idea – and easy enough to site with existing council-owned community facilities all over the country. Add soundproofed practice rooms, to keep neighbours everywhere happy.

perhaps MAINZ could get funding to facilitate this
win win for people learning
and people needing practice
and recording space
(I note that that?

" if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck and acts as the prime agency for funding music. It's a music funding agency duck.

But. It. Isn't.

It operates under the Broadcasting Act, and it was created as the Broadcasting Commission. Maybe?

Sam's just posted the third conversation on the Real Groove site. It's with Mike Bradshaw, Crowded House's?

We've wandered down a cul-de-sac lead by commercial interests, and now we're acting like just because there isn't a map there aren't any other roads.

Just one small change and it broadens the whole thing out.
But I dont blame the money, it just lays there looking attractive, enticing.
But?

That would be great. On the subject of programming, what about a radio station (can be internet) based on BBC1 in England. They don't follow trends – they make them, and?

Stop talking to/about Brendan Smyth. He is in a good position to approach the Board to make change, but he's obviously not up to it...

...time for the Ministry for Culture and Heritage to produce a discussion document that can help inform the Board on the future of music funding.?

How about doing the Ecan thing and sacking Brendan and his mates, then appointing outsiders with real world skills and proven ability to look at the whole shebang with fresh eyes and ears.

cos the thing is, theres 'the music commission' appointed panel of music experts 'outward?

Is there some amendment to the Act that makes it illegal not to blow millions on "radio friendly" pop music? Have I missed something?

Sorta. Even in TV, nothing gets funded without a broadcast commitment — no matter how authentic and great the idea is. The networks are essentially the?

Manufactured culture? Oppressively conditioned social responsibility? Successful precedents always outweigh the failures.

This overriding sense that cultural pantheons of days gone by can be reproduced with a bundle of?

Even in TV, nothing gets funded without a broadcast commitment — no matter how authentic and great the idea is. The networks are essentially the gatekeepers of what can be made

Yeah.
And that's always been a problem. And it's past the point where the writing on the wall is?

eg having their own Freeview channel- both to air content the commercial stations won't, and to ginger-up the commercials with some thoughtful competition.

...This I like, if every video gets played at least once, assuming it meets broadcasting standard requirements.

democracy ffs.

You and I both know Robbie, that your time would be better spent plotting the next big thing. They have?

How many people does one need for a lobby group ?

One, if you plan on lobbying via the New Zealand Herald.

I defy you to point out a band that sounds like The Phoenix Foundation from anywhere else.

Fair call maybe – but here's a riff that sounds very much like The Phoenix Foundation's Buffalo. "Hank Marvin" by the Exploding Budgies – http://ht.ly/1HyQT

I don't accept that argument. The point now is that there are so many alternative forms of broadcasting (eg?

That role shifting to audiences rather than traditional middlemen is part of the impact of the internet on all culture industries and media. And the channels do not have the same?

Why is there still a NZ on Air focus on commercial radio and TV? It's outdated.

To me that's the bit that needs to change. I don't buy all the slagging off of NZOA for helping fund mainstream pop, because it's our mainstream pop and as worthy of support as?

Oh,?

but here's a riff that sounds very much like The Phoenix Foundation's Buffalo.

And I can point you in the direction of a '77 keyboard line from The Subway Sect that sounds very much like The Clean's seminal '81 Tally Ho, but it's not what your influences are, or even?

I don't buy all the slagging off of NZOA for helping fund mainstream pop

Too much of that and not enough of anything else might be what's challenged.

Pop is by definition what's popular, and part of NZOA's remit is about promoting belonging and national voice and getting biggest impact?

Agreed. More significantly, why should a small group of unaccountable people (commercial broadcasting programmers) get to decide what will be popular before it's even made? Bollocks to that.

Sounds a bit like the Top of the Pops mentality of 1977:

When you see the kind of bands that were doing the?

Oh, and Robbie, I've just found this blog post of mine in response to a question from you back in '06, and I've reposted it. Funny how little has changed, huh?

haha Simon, a most excellent response... it really is like groundhog day !

...and to think Brendan has known?

I should note, its unfair to lay the blame for crap selections totally at the broadcasters/programmers door.

Never forget, they are only playing your record because they have to.

Also, and I need to say it again: I have to admit, as I've said before, that I'm really not at?

Sure the manager can advocate to the higher-ups but they don't have enough power to make change happen on their own.?

The commercial networks are not the gatekeepers anymore

For NZ On Air funding? Yes, they are. Nothing gets funded without a screening commitment from a broadcaster.

– everybody is jumping over the gate if they can raise enough money to produce and distribute something, but not everyone can afford to?

Respect where it's due but it's the classic, yeah i liked your old stuff?

I'm sure you said yourself he was a man for his time but that time has been.

I don't recall saying that but really, its got little to do with watching his back. After all these years I think he's tough and thick skinned enough to watch his own. Yes?

Focusing on Mr Smyth is like targetting your school principal about national standards rather than the Board that employs her or the Minister and government who make the rules.

Nah it's like targeting the school principal for despite having the resources still continually churns out morons into the workforce...none of?

The principal is not allowed to spend money on whatever they feel like – and nor is the Board for that matter.

It seems a better understanding of advocacy and power might?

there is also a wealth of knowledge and experience there that I, as a New Zealand taxpayer, don't want to toss away. He knows his stuff

Oh for sure maybe pay him the odd consultancy fee if you need to know anything from back in the day but this is?

Nah sorry i'm just not buying it

And look who's paying the price. Ever wondered if perhaps you're shouting outside the wrong door?

I'm sure if he'd wanted he could have put the word to the board that the mandate needs re written, and a word to the minister he's accountable to as a?

As stated in the Real Groove article....
Donald Reid and his '$60 per-CD tax-payer' album "In A Taxi Home".

Disclaimer: let me state for those that don't know me, I'm Andrew B. White. I've known Donald for several years and play bass?

The problem with 'leaked' 'facts' is that the leaker stuffed up.

I was wrong though – the Real Groove graph actually puts the CD value at $70 per unit (based on 1,000 units)?

No apology needed.

Did it anyway.

PAUL:

A list of NZ on Air-funded albums

How many of these albums received significant radio play? Most. How many of these?

It seems you have a more romantic notion of politics than I do

and you have a more liberal notion of an employee than me :) but enough about BS. Heres another point raised worth noting.

The thing with funding is supposed to be, if you're good enough, you don't?

Really like the new issue of?

I thought NZ on Air was funding Radio NZ to the tune of a couple of million dollars. I know I've picked up a couple of NZ artists that I love from catching Music 101 while driving my car.

It's quite a bit more than that. NZOA is [[http://nzonair.govt.nz/funding/fundingsearchpages/FundingSearchRadioNZ.aspx|Radio NZ's?

Mark works hard, organises, and does a good job for his artists and the indie sector in general.

I'm sure he does, but in 10 yrs IMNZ has been largely ineffectual in changing the funding/copyright status quo, while The Music Commission is basically a rort for junket trips to conferences?

With these stations, the audiences are there for the music but NZ on Air isn't bothering to help bands reach?

A broader remit for getting nz music on 'any sort of air' – waves, TV, online etc, with an emphasis on a broad range of music tastes would seem to help that.

Right.

A broader remit for getting nz music on 'any sort of air' – waves, TV, online etc, with an emphasis on a broad range of music tastes would seem to help that.

I agree, that's the way a rethink should go — but I've looked at this, and when?

You just seem to have to make someone the bad guy, don't you?

Seems it's easier than understanding how complex systems actually work

Tell me how the complex system works.
Quote the relevent parts of the broadcasting act.
Define the terms of reference and the mandate.
Explain the freedom?

I agree, that's the way a rethink should go — but I've looked at this, and when so much online content is created and published privately and for free, it's not entirely straightforward as to what you'd fund and how you'd do it.

Presumably a review could consider that too.?

Presumably a review could consider that too. There's still a need for videos, they just have to be made for both TV and online.

Brendan Smyth declared a couple of years ago that it was expected that funded videos would also be viewed online.

This was, ironically, seen by some?

Now I know Russell, as an expert on these matters can probably do all that, so my question is, why aren't you Russell ? Why are you sitting this one out and commenting form the sidelines. ?

If you can help and don't, then at least help me understand why?

of course i got off my arse and Brendan kicked it to the kerb in 2001 for saying 'fund what artists produce not change?

I've got solutions but this isnt the place to air them cos i don't trust NZoA heads won't take them and use them to keep themselves in the mix.

Oh, come on.

You've been accusing me of having nothing to say?

and every regulated period will produce the same quantity of worthy recipients.

You will find, behind the scenes, that songs that were rejected in one round are approved in the next for a variety of reasons. A lot of acts re-apply over and over.

Why it wasn't good last time?

Oh, come on.

You've been accusing me of having nothing to say?

Ok, the one throwaway solution i have put forward is like you suggest, an 'amplifier' like server for applicants to upload, users to buy off, labels/agents to listen to demos to and broadcasters to program from, thus scrapping?

A lot of acts re-apply over and over. ....That does, I guess, swing the argument back around to the gatekeepers.

heh, not on from an environmentalist's perspective.

And even if there is cronyism, it certainly wouldn't be any more than you get (or is perceived) in "pure" creative funding agencies.

So that makes it alright ?

As long as everyone's doing it you're sweet with it cos that's how it's always been in the music industry and?

cronyism

"pure" creative funding agencies

so a complete lack of transparency is normal?

What I think you're failing to acknowledge is the goodwill that nearly everyone involved has. If it was a simple as one or two villains, it would be a lot easier to sort out.

Nearly every one ? Most of nearly everyone will be the passionate and powerless ones at?

And even if there is cronyism, it certainly wouldn't be any more than you get (or is perceived) in "pure" creative funding agencies.

So that makes it alright ?

No. But you you were arguing for an culturally/creatively based system. I don't think it would fix what you think is?

"pure" creative funding agencies

so a complete lack of transparency is normal?

No, that was poorly phrased. What I meant was that an arts-oriented funding agency like Creative New Zealand is vulnerable to exactly the same accusations as Robbie's making about NZ On Air.

No, that was poorly phrased.

No... it wasnt a slip of the keyboard, what you're saying is that cronyism is endemic to the arts funding sector and now you're trying to back pedal. You're saying it's just a matter of how much one is willing to turn a blind eye?

Nothing short of scrapping the mandate and the entrenched cronies, starting from scratch with a clean slate

Robbie, even if you think so ill of everyone in the industry, consider that cutting off one head is not going to stop another popping up unless you tackle the roots.

Genuine change?

You still haven't advanced a single positive idea.

To be fair, there was using Amplifier to select recipients. Otherwise, I agree it's hard to see the shoulder for the chip.

Genuine change means persuading a whole lot of parties that you see more clearly than them how things could be better. That's hard work and it takes skills that frankly I don't have yet, but at least I'm committed to learning. I'm sure you can do better too.

And it's?

For fuck's sake, the Music Commission and the Music Managers Forum have put together a seminar programme in Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin, culminating with the summit on the 29th; RIANZ, NZ On Air et al are sponsoring the summit. It looks really useful.

yeah but look at what their?

accusations

but surely the problem is a lack of transparency?

(policy suggestion: greater transparency)

You're onto a real winner with that line Russ though i think you do your best writing when wound up. I love seeing that fire coming through and exposing the soft underbelly :)

This is at the level of trolling and I'm not going to bother with it any more.?

But if you're looking at Rhian's non-commercial work, I don't think NZOA is the agency to deliver support for that. It just ain't. And maybe that's okay

Why on earth not? The mandate is simply to put more New Zealand work on Air. They've given grants to 100s of recipients?

latest work performed live in welli next month

Rhian Sheehan talked to Kim Hill this morning (streaming, 31 mins) about the show, the album and mainly music in general. Can't remember if the subject of funding came up – maybe somewhere towards the end?

Alone, Pope Julius II pratonized some of the greatest decorative art in known history. Just one man. Sure he had helpers...

ya could say we are off our Med(ici)s...

ya could say we are off our Med(ici)s...

Don't patronize me.

Why on earth not? The mandate is simply to put more New Zealand work on Air.

Which involves it being, y'know, broadcast.

why? These artists have found their niche in the market, they're making a living, why should the government start developing more artists to compete against them? Did they?

Sorry. Maybe I should stop focusing on us manifold failures and rejects and join in the celebration of the handful of successes.

Good on you. When the kind of invective in evidence here is of the same tone as hopelessly inadequate dads employ against the family court, you have to?

ad infinitum

could be worse #copywrong

ya could say we are off our Med(ici)s...

Don't patronize me.

Grow a sense of humour.

haha, russell? come on man, get the joke.

Oh, okay. Sorry. I get it now. That is funny. I didn't pick it up over the pounding noise in my head.

That is funny

Fair dos, it wasn't high class. and I'll get off your ass. I really had no intention of getting on your ass. It's certainly not personal. Despite my previous few posts, I'm pretty easy either way with NZOA, it's a little more transparent than the way things?

the sole example

spookily synchronous posting, Joe

spookily synchronous posting, Joe

Muskateers? Ghostbusters, Ninja Turtles? John, Paul, George and Ringo? Jerry, George, Elaine and Kramer? Leonard, Howard, Sheldon and Rajesh? Mount Rushmore.

Heres the NZon Air video funding criteria.

http://www.kiwihits.co.nz/funding/details/video

**Objective

__To fund music videos for broadcast on music television shows?

Q: What it is?

video selection should go to screen NZ with music videos being treated more as soundtracks to short films

I like that idea

he just gets on does what he wants, (and usually very well!) whatever anyone else may think, with an impressive work ethic and social conscience, I'd put him up there as an aspirational model rather than a bleater

Yeah, he's a pioneering legend, it's a bit of tongue in cheek,?

Chris – I totally got the Medici patronising thang – good riposte – poor Russell has taken a beating today and grabbed the wrong end,

The beating, I fear, was a matter of me beating my head against the wall.

I was hopeful of a reasonable discussion and exploration of?

I'd welcome hearing more about which parts of the system could change, and leaving personalities out of it

Fair enough, but over the years, every suggestion and his dog has been bandied around, there's seldom anything distinctly new, and despite that perpetual sense that change is imminent, as music month?

downhill battle....? read-downward spiral/ uphill battle.

I like that idea

chur Sacha...and theres plenty more where that came from:)

Often times it seems to be a downhill battle once they lose the favour of the funding agencies...

...and at the other end, an established artist that has plateaued or is on the downhill slide can still?

It does seem to be outside the mandate

So let's be grown-ups and change the mandate. Get the support needed for law and structural changes. It's not exactly rocket science, it's politics and other sectors do it all the time.

Brendan would be out of the?

If screen NZ took over selecting and funding music vids re-classified as soundtracks to short films i dont think there'd be the need to change NzoA's mandate.

I'm not trying to be patronising, but that is changing the mandate

it is about the music biz that spawns so many embittered "failures and rejects".....

I'd previously thought Jody Lloyd was the sole example,...

Jody Lloyd is or was a stakeholder, ie a creator of cultural content and as such?

a stakeholder, ie a creator of cultural content

We're all stakeholders, not just those who create

but that is changing the mandate

has anyone got a link to a copy of 'the mandate' so we can all see what you're talking about. I read the excerpts dd (dave dobbyn?) posted from the broadcasting act which seemed very contradictory to the actions of the organisation but is?

It's well and truly time for new blood. If any organisation needs a shake-up and a good prodding by a group of bureacrats with calculators, NZ On Air is it.

I don't think that's really what she wants. At all. Because, especially under this government, the?

Thanks for great article on NZ music. umm..a few years back 1995 we won a competion South Island battle of the bands in Dunedin, we won, it and the prize was $5,000 from NZ on Air to make a music video... which we did,?

All new media has to be studied and, because NZ on Air goes?

NZ on Air publish their mission and values and note how they invest. Audience size does seem to be used as a proxy for impact or effectiveness.

Section 39 of the?

Whats happened is, to fit the format of commercial radio and to compete for funding, artists are forced to become local clones of imported culture to the extent that any sense of local identity and culture is lost.

In terms of what gets funded for broadcast, yeah. Clones of their?

There doesn't seem to be anything there preventing funding associated with distribution through non-commercial networks, but practices over time seem to have established interpretations about co-funding and balancing "reasonable" audience size against diversity. Those need to change, particularly to reflect the way creators, industry and audiences actually interact today.

The?

Would Dave Dobbyn's career have been more successful if he had government funding in the late 70's, early 80's?

To be fair, he had videos made for him by the state broadcaster. The NZOA grants replaced the rather haphazard system whereby BCNZ might or might not make you a video,?

We need to know that $50000 spent on one single artist going the commercial route produces desired outcomes more efficiently and cost-effectively than $50000 spent on multiple artists broadcasting, marketing and distributing their music by other means.

I understand what you're saying, but what outcomes are these? NZOA is highly?

Be interesting to see the analysis of how audiences get their music these days, though I fear it might be skewed by agendas like so much of?

The Broadcasting Act does not provide any mandate for NZ on Air.

Thanks DD. Good to see the actual material posted.

There seems to be so much confusion about what's going on, including from our panel of experts and no wonder. A mandate that is no mandate??

Now we can?

Chris Matthews : Yup, I've bitched to anyone who'll listen about the nepotistic, anti-South Island bias of N.Z. On Air before; even though I'm hardly a 'New Recording Artist', that's the only funding round?

How about a pool of funds that could be a real random arts lottery (of smaller amounts)
– a second tier for those other than the usual suspects/applicants...
Could also be tied to other incubator projects like RockQuest and Play it Strange...
a kinda quo vadis, quid pro quo?

Vicki is (understandably?) confused in some of her statements and right on the money in many others.

I'm not sure it's understandable at all. She's the paper's music correspondent, and she's writing regular attacks on public agencies without knowing what she's on about. I think that's poor.

In the earlier?