Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Criminalising Journalism

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  • BenWilson,

    Actually, I don't know why Labour and National don't do this even more, if they're going to be so bloody cheeky about using this to their advantage. There would be nothing lost to them to set up a new shadow party, identical in every way to their party, to stand for all the safe electorate seats, with the advice to voters to split their vote. They could do it right now, Labour could pick up 15 extra seats that way. Paul Goldsmith is effectively doing it by refusing to campaign, letting two former chief National party ministers take his spot (and he gets in on the list anyway).

    It's the big joke part of our system. Electorates are an FPP hangover - MMP is the system that recognizes that party politics has subverted local representation since the very beginning of Westminster democracy, and actually addresses it with a proportional top up. But it can't deal with the fact that blocs are the shadow cast over the system by non-proportional electorate representative selection.

    FPP reaches beyond its grave. It's not as bad as it was, proportionality is much closer than the %30 wasted votes of the bad old days, but I honestly never really saw so clearly what it was that I disliked about FPP electorates right back when MMP first came in as I do at this moment.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8305 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell, in reply to BenWilson,

    yeah - time to start using STV for voting within electorates ....

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2031 posts Report Reply

  • Sonic,

    Has everyone seen this?

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 102 posts Report Reply

  • HenryB, in reply to BenWilson,

    Actually, I don't know why Labour and National don't do this even more, if they're going to be so bloody cheeky about using this to their advantage. There would be nothing lost to them to set up a new shadow party, identical in every way to their party, to stand for all the safe electorate seats, with the advice to voters to split their vote. They could do it right now

    `Supplementary Member'?

    Palmerston North • Since Sep 2008 • 106 posts Report Reply

  • Ben Austin,

    The Ipredict show (available online) has been a great resource so far for catching up with what is happening (along with the Listener*) overseas. Pretty hard to believe that the host was barred from RNZ

    *Never thought I'd be saying that!

    London • Since Nov 2006 • 869 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    Actually, I don't know why Labour and National don't do this even more, if they're going to be so bloody cheeky about using this to their advantage.

    Er, I hate to say it, but as far as I can tell Labour aren't running any pseudo-parties, and haven't, ever.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1263 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/election-2011/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503012&objectid=10766872
    Standout quotes,
    Many argued that major reforms that might be in the country's long-term interests could be blocked by coalition partners because they were unpopular.
    "Insofar as MMP forces you to pay attention to taking the public along with you, then in the long run that may not be a bad thing."

    In any fair minded country those quotes would sink the speaker, surely. And zing,
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/election-2011/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503012&objectid=10766877
    Epsom wont like it ;-)

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Ben Austin,

    I don't recall seeing any research cited that proportional representation, along the lines of MMP, has ever had, as the principle factor, any demonstrable effect on economic development. It seems to be one of those things that people assume should be true, but does not seem to be.

    Exactly what hard economic decisions did say Labour not make 99-08 that would have improved NZ's long term economic position? Or National during 96-99?

    London • Since Nov 2006 • 869 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to merc,

    In any fair minded country those quotes would sink the speaker, surely

    Can’t see why. Unless the speaker is campaigning against MMP?
    (The “hard decisions” referred to might be social policy as easily as economic. For example, raising the minimum age of eligibility for pensions: unpopular, but probably necessary in long term – which means you need to make the argument for it before doing it.)
    Where National should have a credibility gap here is that it has not bothered to make any serious argument for doing anything – instead shutting down debate whenever possible.

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 854 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    I think the thinly veiled point coming from our Finance minister and business leaders (ETA in this context) is that they want to be able to get on with doing business without the proles interfering no?

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Lew Stoddart,

    This thread’s spirited defence of the distinction between a randy, manipulative septuagenarian who, for all his faults, has stepped down from his role as head of government willingly and peacefully – and three of the four most brutal dictators of recent human history, plus another one who’s still in power, has given me unexpected hope this morning. Thanks Keir, Chris and Matthew.

    L

    Wellington, NZ • Since Aug 2010 • 105 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to BenWilson,

    MMP is the system that recognizes that party politics has subverted local representation since the very beginning of Westminster democracy, and actually addresses it with a proportional top up.

    MMP entrenches parties as the prime political vehicles. In theory.

    two former chief National party ministers

    Banks would love you for that.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16272 posts Report Reply

  • linger,

    For me, the most damaging piece of hubris is in the final paragraph:

    Mr English believed the public would be receptive or at least compliant towards further major economic reform in the next parliamentary term.

    How compliant are you feeling right now, New Zealand?

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 854 posts Report Reply

  • merc, in reply to linger,

    Yes it is. The critiquing of misinformation performed by the digital media for this election has been awesome. PAS, Dean Knight, Steven Price, Stuff and the Herald and more. I think National, and Act in particular have greatly underestimated the new media territory. Some examples,
    http://www.medialawjournal.co.nz/?p=522
    http://www.laws179.co.nz/2011/11/reading-tea-leaves-declaratory-judgment.html
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5989843/Revealing-the-gap-between-NZs-rich-and-poor
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10766898

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    Steve:

    No, Helen Clark isn't a scumbag. But if we're going to throw around terms like "affront to democracy", she wasn't upfront with Labour voters or the electors of Mount Albert was she?

    And, guys, you're quite right Silvio Berlusconi isn't a Stalin or a Hitler (thought his ties with Italian neo-fascists make a pretty tempting Godwin moment). The Italian economy went tits-up on his watch, but even he.doesn't deserve comparison to Mugabe's utter squalor.

    But comparing John Key to Berlusconi? Really? Can anyone with even the most casual acquaintance with S.B.'s history make that equation with a straight face?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11783 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    Linger the “compliant” line isn’t a quote, however it rings so true! Perhaps English is trying to be human flak for his leader?

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2191 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Ben Austin,

    It seems to be one of those things that people assume should be true

    like that raising taxes or minimum wages reduces economic growth.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16272 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    Ben, I’m far from convinced by “the teapot tapes aren’t so bad” line. Key is clearly wounded by this sustained questioning of his character and when the substance is released it’ll further hurt him no matter what he says. Banks may well win Epsom but it now seems very unlikely they’ll drag in Brash which renders the strategy meaningless. Worse, Key himself has revived Peters. Next expect the question, “can National go into a coalition with NZF”?

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2191 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    But comparing John Key to Berlusconi? Really? Can anyone with even the most casual acquaintance with S.B.'s history make that equation with a straight face?

    Wealthy businessman becomes PM?
    More obvious than some of the long bows drawn lately.

    As to his general behaviour or taste for underage women, certainly no link.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16272 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Lew Stoddart,

    Shame it was in defense of equating Key with a man whose “faults” include persistent allegations of massive and systemic tax fraud, perjury, bribery of Police and judges and collusion with organized crime. Oh, and using his Parliamentary majority to push through law changes that just happened to kill three corruption trails in which he was the defendant .

    Yeah, isn’t it just awful that New Zealand is full of politicians like that? It's not like we charged, tried and imprisoned someonefound guilty of corrupt practices while an MP..

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11783 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Sacha,

    one of those things that people assume should be true
    like that raising taxes or minimum wages reduces economic growth

    or that getting tougher on crime always produces a more pleasant society.

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 854 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to linger,

    How compliant are you feeling right now, New Zealand?

    Better practised at grabbing our ankles.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16272 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to linger,

    or that getting tougher on crime means jails

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16272 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    Joyce uses media to castigate media,
    "I think there are one or two people in the media who need to do a little bit of self-assessment over this weekend."
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5991288/Keys-handling-of-teapot-tape-defended
    Also it can be argued that Key is using the police investigating the media to influence the election. I think it is an onerous complaint owing to the non-private nature of the media staged (precedent set 2 elections prior) cup-of-tea-to-influence-voting.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to merc,

    English misrepresenting NZ's uninterrupted neoliberal economics - and their failure - also deserves a decent challenge.

    "The important thing isn't so much the electoral system, the lesson of the past in New Zealand is that you have to take the public along because if you don't, they ... shoot you through the head and get the next guy in who undoes it all.

    That stop-start cycle over the last 20 years has cost us dearly."

    When Richardson and Shipley's savage benefit cuts have not been reversed by any subsequent governments, it's even harder to take the clown seriously. Same with Annette King exhorting us now to think of the children of the poor.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16272 posts Report Reply

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