On second thoughts, I can believe it.

Didn't Laws question the professionalism of the Otaki teacher? What made him think he was qualified to do that?

I like the "edit" thanks.

Surely not for real?

Yes, for real.

How did someone so stupid get to be mayor?

How did someone so stupid get to be mayor?

Heh, even stupider voters.

How did someone so stupid get to be mayor?

Perhaps by appealing to a fear that many conservatives share: that there really is a PC conspiracy.

My theory is that you don't give a rats about the "h" deal

If you watched Laws on the news last night he really seemed genuinely gutted. I think if he was exploiting bigotry for political advantage he's be delighted at the chance to play the victim, a la Larry?

Can't say I'm excessively impressed with the level of baiting by his correspondent either. "Redneck capital of New Zealand"? And why don't you also kindly fuck off?

This kind of 'them and us' type reaction to uncomfortable behaviour is pretty standard among a certain groups, and comes to the fore?

I don't think Laws is playing the race card, I think he personally really hates Maori people and culture and is furious at the idea that they might prevail over him.

Mmm, not quite – I suspect he's the kind of man whose best friends are Maori, if you know?

Discuss.

Lhaws = NZ's version of Glenn Beck

Discuss.

Could try harder. (But let's hope he doesn't.)

One plot.

If found, please send to:
M Laws
c/- Wanganui City Council
Note; the spelling is important, otherwise he?ll put it straight into the bin.

What I want is his e-mail address. Might drop him a line.

He?s pretty free with the word fascism, isn?t he?

Can't say I'm excessively impressed with the level of baiting by his correspondent either

That's not really the point, Giovanni. Michael Laws is an elected official and is supposed to rise above petty provocation and be a bit more professional. It's very dispiriting that there seems to be a constituency?

a Laws / Downfall video

Yes please.

Perhaps by appealing to a fear that many conservatives share: that there really is a PC conspiracy.

Should we start one, just to mock them?

(And obviously, it would have to have Templars in it. You can't have a proper conspiracy without them)

That's not really the point, Giovanni. Michael Laws is an elected official and is supposed to rise above petty provocation and be a bit more professional. It's very dispiriting that there seems to be a constituency willing to cheer on this kind of boorishness.

I'm not sure that the answer?

Perhaps by appealing to a fear that many conservatives share: that there really is a PC conspiracy.

Should we start one, just to mock them?

(And obviously, it would have to have Templars in it. You can't have a proper conspiracy without them.)

Laws is the Comte Saint Germain. That?

Doesn't he have a comms manager? Or a PR advisor?

Not so as you'd notice.

Well, I can't disagree with you there, Giovanni, but Laws has still got to be held responsible for his behaviour.

Yes, but how? Saying that he's stupid and that his supporters are stupid doesn't seem a solution to me. I routinely remind myself and anybody who'll listen that one of?

Is there such a thing as a Turing test for satire?

Not sure, but you did remind me of someone's argument that sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice.

Yes, but how? Saying that he's stupid and that his supporters are stupid doesn't seem a solution to me

I wasn't suggesting saying he was stupid, Gio. I was suggesting saying that he is unprofessional and demostrably unfit to hold public office.

The first email raised a valid point and Law's response was "Maybe you should grow a brain..."

And his second response was "jerk, jerk, jerk".

Had you been the correspondent, at what point would you have determined that Laws had lost his grip?

I was suggesting saying that he is unprofessional and demostrably unfit to hold public office.

It's an unwinnable argument. It's not as if he's being revealed to be somebody whom we didn't know he was – everybody has always known that side of him, you just have to turn on?

Satire seems as good a response as any, and I don't think it actually has an impact on the content of Law's verbal diarrhoea.

Seems like people have been using the word a lot in this thread. We agree that there was nothing whatsoever that was satirical in those email?

For evidence of this point

For her part, Turia claims that only a few 'rednecks' will be riled by the junking of Wanganui in favour of Whanganui. Such a view grossly underestimates the level of Pakeha anxiety about Maori attempts?

What I want is his e-mail address. Might drop him a line.

To his credit, is public domain on www.wanganui.govt.nz

Back in the day, the rule was, answer the nice /. neutral people ASAP. On the other hand, nutters / trolls / those who obviously will never agree, wait 12?

Is there such a thing as a Turing test for satire?

Wouldn't it be a Poe Test? I'm assuming the law holds for subjects other than fundamentalism.

Seems like people have been using the word a lot in this thread. We agree that there was nothing whatsoever that was satirical in those email sent to Mr. Laws, correct?

So, how do you classify the comment about red necks and banjos ?

Seems to fit this definition:

A?

On 17/09/2009, at 5:54 PM, "Michael Laws" wrote:

Piss off dickhead & stop wasting the time of grown-ups

was a nice little study in irony.

So, how do you classify the comment about red necks and banjos ?

Had I been working for Laws (hypothetically speaking), I would have regarded the first email as full of vigour but clean enough. And obviously from someone who would never agree with the boss. The reply to send?

So, how do you classify the comment about red necks and banjos ?

It seemed to me that he was just riling him. If that's satire, boy, are we lowering the bar or what? Lyndon will be most displeased.

I personally rank them 2, 3, 1.

OTOH, these devices allow a lot of MPs to be very responsive to emails (if the email is not in the abusive you're-a-total-loser vein.)

He?s pretty free with the word fascism, isn?t he?

Actually Redbaiter?

I wonder he sits around in Council meetings saying ?jerk jerk jerk?

Probably not, but that's what we're all hearing, right?

Hands above the table, Your Worship.

Hands above the table, young man.

Now that's satire. Can you see the difference?

Yeah, the same ones that voted for legalised child abuse recently. Not to mention voting for "change" last year.

Now that's satire. Can you see the difference?

Sorry for the late edit!

Yeah, the same ones that voted for legalised child abuse recently. Not to mention voting for "change" last year.

A post in the style of Lhaws?

Doesn't he have a comms manager? Or a PR advisor?

Can't you see the scene at the recruitment agency with the gathered pool of redundant PR hacks?

"We're looking for volunteers for a suicide mission. Those in, take one step forward."

Can't you see the scene at the recruitment agency with the gathered pool of redundant PR hacks?

"We're looking for volunteers for a suicide mission. Those in, take one step forward."

Y'know, we could spin the suggested Downfall: Laws Edition right out to film length with that one...

'll put about that there's a secret PAS forum where the secret cabal of Politically Correct meet to plan our agenda...

Ahem, thats actually true.... it seems like we forgot to let you in on the approved list? We'll have a discussion in private to see if you're approved. Please?

I don't think it's HIS standards of response that are really in question here

Actually, not to belabour the point, but I kind of think it is. If the guy set out to make Laws look bad to people who didn't already think he was a wanker, I think it?

Can't you see the scene at the recruitment agency with the gathered pool of redundant PR hacks?

"We're looking for volunteers for a suicide mission. Those in, take one step forward."

Y'know, we could spin the suggested Downfall: Laws Edition right out to film length with that one...

Or some?

New Zealand is often conservative and reactionary. But the solution to this isn't to retreat into reactionary bashing of the people who hold those positions. This plays into their hands, and it is this kind of cultural politics that has kept power in?

Giovani, do you agree that if just teh first 4 exchanges were printed Laws would come out like the dick?

Yes, but so what? He has made a profession of being dickish on our ariwaves, it's really hard to see how this would hurt him in any way. Which is?

He has made a profession of being dickish on our ariwaves, it's really hard to see how this would hurt him in any way

But you?d expect Laws the mayor, replying to an e-mail to act differently to Laws the talkback host.

Well OK you wouldn?t, but you know what?

He deserves to be laughed at at least as much as North Shore mayor Andrew Williams, whose late-night emails have been quite widely reported this year.

Laugh all you want, it won't make the slightest difference to him or his level of public support, is all I'm saying. In that?

But you?d expect Laws the mayor, replying to an e-mail to act differently to Laws the talkback host.

Well OK you wouldn?t, but you know what I mean.

Just goes to show he's a straight shooter, no? And he replies to his emails, so he's a hard worker to boot.

Just so it's on both threads:
DPF's Khiwiblog

Just a pity the racists come out to play consequence-free, as usual. Here's the case in point:

Johnboy Says:

What gets me about this whole (sorry fole) load of crap concerning Mhaori getting septic about how us honkys pronounce their near unintelligible?

If you are speaking english then use the english pronounciation.

Now *that* would be Poe-worthy. Sadly, it's probably serious.

Laugh all you want,

All it makes me do is feel sick to the pit of my stomach.

All very nice to be very nice. But let's not forget, Laws was lecturing Maori children on their stupidity, anger management and ignorance.

All this episode has done is highlight the fact that age is no barrier to the condition he objects to.

QED.

As for Chinese placenames dont even ask.

Ah, you mean like how Peking is now Beijing? Doesnt that seem like an international attempt to use something (approximately) closer to the local pronunciation?

They get high on the role of potty mouth.

It makes a lot of money, creates a very big personality cult and creates voting blocs.

When does megalomania become pedagoguery ?

Likewise if I am speaking of Russian cities in english I don?t suddenly say Mockba

My nurse was complaining that my blood pressure was too low. I think that's done the trick nicely.

Ah, you mean like how Peking is now Beijing? Doesnt that seem like an international attempt to use something (approximately) closer to the local pronunciation?

Let me channel Redbaiter for a moment here: Peking was the good, upstanding colonial European name – not like that filthy socialist name that the?

Laugh all you want, it won't make the slightest difference to him or his level of public support, is all I'm saying.

I suspect that might be debated amongst some of Whanganui's electors, but it's not the point. This is the email address on which Laws represents Whanganui, and in?

QED.

It's almost as if you guys had never dealt with a troll. He thrives in this kind of stuff. No amount of QEDing is going to make the slightest bit of difference to him, and calling his supporters rednecks (which is a racist epithet at the best of times)?

This is the email address on which Laws represents Whanganui, and in that context his immediate resort to abuse is extraordinary and unusual.

Why don't you take this to a paper, Russell? I'd be curious to see if they'd regard it as being newsworthy. A lunch at Maria Pia's the?

Why don't you take this to a paper, Russell? I'd be curious to see if they'd regard it as being newsworthy. A lunch at Maria Pia's the first time you're in Wellington says they're not going to.

3 News called an hour and a half ago looking to get in?

Apols to Fillup Tallinor:

(Up the wonganoowee)

An h can look good in a word
Honestly is completely absurd
'eard in host but not ohm
So Pooh, lets go home
Up river, no paddle, so whark it

But what's this with "taking" it to a paper? Why on earth would I do that? What possible interest would I have? I was forwarded it, checked for permission and published it in a blog post headed 'Friday Gold'. Which I think is a fair description.

If your interest is?

I am curious, how did you handle your man in Milan?

Did you ignore him? Did he, as a result, go away?

I think laughing at those in public office that take the positions Laws has is not a bad?

I am curious, how did you handle your man in Milan?

Did you ignore him? Did he, as a result, go away?

No, we obsessed about how unfit for office he and his pals were, ridiculed and satirised him and his supporters constantly, instead of debating his ideas and articulating?

Laws is the Comte Saint Germain. That much is obvious. Sue Bradford is an instrument for measuring the Earth's telluric currents.

So you're re-reading Foucault's Pendulum as well?

Thanks all. It's been a fun week.

clocked off, feeling irie

Have one for me (uh, meatballs, obviously).

but, hey, Aucklanders voted in John Banks, what does that say about them?

I was kinda hoping no one noticed that.

So you're re-reading Foucault's Pendulum as well?

Why, yes. Finally finished it on Monday. It's taken me since June.

I was kinda hoping no one noticed that.

Does anyone actually have a mayor they wholeheartedly approve of?

To answer my own question, when I lived in Taupo, Joan Williamson was a highly capable and charming mayor.
I seem to remember Fran Wilde was pretty good too.

Does anyone actually have a mayor they wholeheartedly approve of?

I'm looking forward to approving wholheartedly of Celia Wade-Brown in Wellington, but I guess I should wait for her to win the election first.

It's like he?

So you're re-reading Foucault's Pendulum as well?

Why, yes. Finally finished it on Monday. It's taken me since June.

Off topic (except it's Friday so there is no O/T huh?), what did you think of The Name of the Rose ? (I assume you have read that also.) Rose is?

No, we obsessed about how unfit for office he and his pals were, ridiculed and satirised him and his supporters constantly, instead of debating his ideas and articulating a progressive brand of politics that connected with the electorate.

And it worked out *great*.

Now, this is satire...

this doublethink thing is a great idea!

doubleplusgood

what did you think of The Name of the Rose ?

Connery and Slater were great.

Does anyone actually have a mayor they wholeheartedly approve of?

If we had council leaders indirectly elected by a majority of councillors, they'd have to have the confidence of a wider section of opinion and not just be the person who could start the biggest bandwagon.

Foucault's Pendulum

Isn't that all plagiarised from The Da Vinci Code?

So, when can we start the book club? I have a whole thing about The Name of the Rose and Foucault's Pendulum and the limits of interpretation but I can't express it in fewer than three thousand words and I need a captive audience. By which I mean actual?

As for Mr. Laws he would have problems over here as well.

Then again he might be perfect as mayor of here

BTW what happened to the Weliington Lions? go away and they cant win a game.

Prejudice against the rural poor is legitimate in our society

Rural poor? Or rural stupid? The mechanism of how Whanganui and similar places get their redeckness is typically that the town has no culture or interesting work, so people with a brain leave as soon as they can. Which of?

Rural poor? Or rural stupid? The mechanism of how Whanganui and similar places get their redeckness is typically that the town has no culture or interesting work, so people with a brain leave as soon as they can. Which of course self-perpetuates.

Kindly substitute New Zealand for Whanganui and observe?

Laws must be the least self-aware person I've ever come across. Apart from calling putting the 'h' in Wanganui "racist"

yeah. If he still had his debating head screwed on he'd avoid the race card and play up the?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2879825/Laws-Sharples-doesn-t-get-democracy

regardless of however much character assassination quenches the nation's thirst. The fact is that if the national Geographic board wanted to come and change my name to Tark Maslov despite me unanimously voting to keep the staus quo I'd probably be pretty angry too, and?

a small country grabbing attention

Part of growing up as a nation, perhaps. And of a whimpering fear-filled backlash against the inevitability of our nation's increasingly young and brown face, and of the sheer variety of faces and voices (and possibilities).

How can we support the scared without disowning our?

Foucault's Pendulum

Isn't that all plagiarised from The Da Vinci Code?

Well played, Sir.

The fact is that if the national Geographic board wanted to come and change my name to Tark Maslov despite me unanimously voting to keep the staus quo I'd probably be pretty angry too,

The thing is, the geographical board has simply stated what they think the name of the?

Foucault's Pendulum

Isn't that all plagiarised from The Da Vinci Code?

Yeah, and The Name of the Rose is a rip-off of the Brother Cadfael series.

I think we're forgetting that our nation's name is a mispelling of Zeeland.

Well put, Tark.

They're not supposed to poll the preference of the populace or empowered to do anything other than advise the government on this matter.

o ture bro? thanks for mentioning that, I haven't been following to closely, I just noticed a lot of 'h's started appearing in all the wrong places?

But if that variety isn't enough for you Sacha, perhaps you could?

our nation's name is a mispelling of Zeeland

The perils of having more than one thread about the same topic.

I think we could offer more than an 'h' to the 'brown faces'.

For sure. And I need to hear more about the whole flag issue. Seen some saying the Maori Party are being bought off with symbolic baubles but that often seems like sour grapes from Labourites, without more?

(candyman)

For sure. And I need to hear more about the whole flag issue. Seen some saying the Maori Party are being bought off with symbolic baubles but that often seems like sour grapes from Labourites, without more context.

Yeah, not a week goes by when I don't contemplate the flag,?

...let's face it, NZ on the whole *is* pretty conservative

Really? In comparison to where? I agree?

Timaru, and Temuka still have meaning, and the olds were notorious for breathing (rather than enunciating) last or internal vowels

Practising that now, that's an awesome feeling.

I think we're forgetting that our nation's name is a mispelling of Zeeland.

Except there aren't any Dutch people getting offended, are there?

(And I also am unsure of how true it is to say `misspelt' when clearly New isn't Nieuw misspelt; it's Nieuw Anglicised and so I would argue?

New isn't Nieuw misspelt; it's Nieuw Anglicised

In fact it's Nieuw translated. As in New York, not New Yark.

*But* – when I think of the world I grew up in, 62?

Just glad he never started a band.

Rhighto

Nouvelle Zelande isn't a misspelling of New Zealand but the French name for New Zealand.

The French refer to the Dutch Zeeland as Zélande so there's a logic there. On English maps Zeeland is labelled Zeeland.
In English we use the Latin Caledonia, and New Caledonia despite Nouvelle-Calédonie for the?

Rhighto

Nice. That you, Casserly?

(After all, were i to be called the Duc d'Orleans, I should anglicise as the Duke of Orleans, where?

While that was beautifully written Sasha, I think we're forgetting that our nation's name is a mispelling of Zeeland.

Did you dial up the Knew Zeeland Original G(angsta) Bored before you renamed Sacha, "Sasha" there Tark?

Fuck this is confusing. It's like following the Auckland Warriors, New Zealand Warriors, Vodafone?

"rate payer's money being spent voting on spelling?
that's a sorry compromise for human progress.

we have all quills, we have all text input devices, we have all free will. we can to spell that schit the way we want it.

is wanga whucking vegas hard?

...let's face it, NZ on the whole *is* pretty conservative

Really? In comparison to where? I agree that NZ certainly has a conservative streak, and I'm quite glad I'm not there with the current gubmint, but internationally speaking, I think we're not too bad, actually. Scandinavian countries are leading the?

I think NZers are a pretty conservative bunch, it just doesn't translate into worse governance because the political class is reluctant to tap into certain sentiments.

I think a better way to look at NZ's prevailing political culture (Matthew Palmer's written a book on this) is lazy egalitarianism. Not actively?

On another point entirely – lets get serious about a book group – Emma set up a shelfari PA group about 6 months ago, but only like 7 people joined.

First I hear of that. But is not something that could happen within PAS? I know there must be excellent?

First I hear of that. But is not something that could happen within PAS? I know there must be excellent reasons, just wondering what they might be.

No reason, I don't think. Just needs someone to start a nominate a book, wait a few weeks, and start a thread, yeah?

One doubts such a scenario. It might help though.

First I hear of that. But is not something that could happen within PAS? I know there must be excellent reasons, just wondering what they might be.

There is no reason at all that it couldn't happen, other than that no one has yet done it. I think?

Books ...

And we all agree that it should be called "Did you even bother to read the damn book?!", yes?

I have a whole thing about The Name of the Rose and Foucault's Pendulum and the limits of interpretation but I can't express it in fewer than three thousand words

I nominate Giovanni to lead this initiative with 3000 Italian accented words on these two books by Umberto Eco.

Although I'm disappointed the second is not about Michel F.

Oh, but it is. :-)

Re books and aut(h)ors Nick (H)ornby going to be on Kim (H)ill next week and (h)ere is a link to just out Prospect interview

When I asked my school's rep why he was more conservative than me, he said "That's because you're a baby boomer!"

The little germ, already fluent in the jargon of marketing.

I'd be most grateful if any community members shared their thoughts with me about PA as a virtual community.

I'm currently doing a 3rd yr research essay on virtual communities. I'm using PAS as an example to critique Howard Rheingold's ideas about virtual communities. In particular, he said?

Feedback Wanted. I'd be most grateful if any community members shared their thoughts with me about PA as a virtual community.

I am willing to help but do you want responses here, or via another route?

I recently--and grandly-- declared PA the 'not just the best blog in New Zealand?

Re the Wgtn get-together, we could all gate-crash Russell and your Maria Pia's meatballs.

If the much touted Wellington get together

Eh, much touted? When? and count me in, please.

On topic, I mentioned the Whanganui kerfuffle to a child yesterday. When I said some folks were annoyed that the 'h' would be added she said "why? it's *still* the same name isn't it."?

The English are so great at spelling names the way they're pronounced.

I'm off now to visit my cousins StJohn and Featherstonehaugh, in Marjorie Banks street, and then I'm off to Kiribati.

On the pronunciation of Paris, Moscow, etc. I?

The English are so great at spelling names the way they're pronounced.

Good point. I keep wanting to mis-spell 'Marylebone'. Just yesterday, one of my students pronounced Southwell as 'south' + 'well' (rather than 'suthvell') but I didn't bother correcting her. As Kim Hill commented to James Belich this morning,?

I reckon it's only a matter of time until Laws has a Jimmy Swaggart / Jimmy Baker day of reckoning. Someone should go through his rubbish. I bet it's a goldmine of credibility destroying tidbits.

Try explaining the distinctions between 'there' and 'their' or 'whether' and 'weather' to a ESL student--or the absence of an apostrophe in 'its'.

Jesus Geoff you make my job sound easy. Try explaining the meaning and uses of 'for'...

Giovanni – 'Home'? Will Wellington ever become 'home'?

Heh... it'll take a while, I think. I'm always happy to come back into Wellington, I would find it really hard to go back to Milan long term (more so than Justine) and yet that's most definitely "home".

Try explaining the meaning?

How would you envisage PA developing in the future – anything you would like to see happening?

Please keep it non-visual, no Skype-type link please.

What is written – lasts much longer than what is oral, and, just sometimes- records what the oral was, from the writer's hear-point (I refer interested people to the journals of John Boultbee for an ear-insight to?

I reckon it's only a matter of time until Laws has a Jimmy Swaggart / Jimmy Baker day of reckoning. Someone should go through his rubbish. I bet it's a goldmine of credibility destroying tidbits.

Um – isn't that what this thread is largely about? It's not as if he?

On the other hand, speaking of PA social type things, it's the holidays coming up and I have a hankering to see my PA buddies at a certain neighbourhood bar. With rum. Email me if you too have this hankering.

Oh Jackie, wish I could :( Wont be back until?

But we lack abundant wildlife and must settle for pizza.

Thanks to 1080 there's not the same abundance of roadkill. And now that hubcaps are made of plastic there's a lack of handy roasting dishes.

O bugger, another kangaroo -when *do* the seaweed hordes come through? This vegan really has to *eat*-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_MhebfzmR0

(As a small note of formal appreciation, can I say how much I really relish all the clips/leads/sites/et al that come from here?

*Thank you all*)

Now, off to hunt some edible stuff- a hah! Fresh glistening young puha clump! gotcha! Tweedlydee,?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/opinion/2882791/Suffer-little-children-its-your-parents-fault

Also: Herald – the email exchange.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10598419

Just read the Herald on Sunday account and Laws has turned the whole exchange into a positive. It will play even better in Wanganui. Own goal, Russell.

Just read the Herald on Sunday account and Laws has turned the whole exchange into a positive. It will play even better in Wanganui. Own goal, Russell.

Where does he turn it to his advantage? By saying he was sick of non-residents expressing their opinion?

And for what it's worth?

The original spelling was WI-IANGANUI but over the years the ink smudged into the shape of an 'H'.

Soon after the town was?