He seemed to think it was more a matter of Telecom coming to its?

sigh – we in Dunedin get forgotten again – maybe I should start shovelling my $$ to someone other than Orcon

I'd call up and ask when you get the bandwidth. I would think Dunedin is a big enough centre to be viable. Rural unbundling won't happen, otoh — it?

You may regard this as tragic.

Having an in-house TV critic probably excuses you.

Having an in-house TV critic probably excuses you.

I've got one of those too :)

Yowza – good deal from Orcon. But danged if I can open their home page at www.orcon.net.nz

Works fine for me, as does http://www.orcon.co.nz

The interrnets is quickly becoming essential, but the phoneline is essential and woefully provisioned by Telecom for the poorest in our community.

The Public Share in Telecom shud come in for the least advantaged amoung us.

Currently Reconnects (?) offers $99 a month prepay landline.

This?

there's only been one hiccup, no interweb when i got home last monday, and the phones jammed. i assumed this meant they were aware of the issue.

rb! you forgot to mention the other news today, the launch?

Any advice gratefully received.

Does it allow you to bypass DHCP by picking a static address?

Can't you assign a static address to the gadget? If your router is on 192.168.0.1, you should be able to assign anything else on 192.168.0.x (that another machine isn't using), using your router address as the gateway, and the appropriate subnet mask (255.255.255.0 in the example given)

Seeing as you?

2. As I understand it, Telecom has updated a number of exchanges (including Ponse) to ADSL2+ as well – but does anyone know if they're switched?

How does 70 exchanges live and unbundling beyond Auckland by the end of the year sound?

Oh, should I mention VDSL as well at this point? Fully 20% of our lines will be supporting VDSL and we're pushing for symmetrical service so it will be (real world) around 50Mbit/s?

Cricket fans might also be interested to know that Stratos is rebroadcasting this and the next test match via Freeview.

... and for those without Freeview, today's and tommorrow's play is on Triangle.

Ahem.

Heh.

1. Anyone know where (roughly) the Ponse exchange is? I'm in Crummer Rd and interested in roughly how far away I am.

Summer Street. I'd think you were good to go.

Humankind managed for 40,000 years without one.

r but once I can have a one-box media streaming, gaming, DVD, Blu-Ray and HDTV solution then I'll need to buy that and the TV to match

Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny...

This Orcon news is really making me bitter towards those?

Orcon's network will also be available at wholesale to other providers, including (heh) Telecom.

Ha hrr ha Hrr alright haha. I'v got that $50 no cap plan that Telecom served up before they realized lack of practical ability to deliver ha ha ha, ha. I?

80:20 rule and all that..

Following up from last night's GirlGeek dinner, why do you have to say "your mum" as an example of someone who can't use technology? Why not my dad?

Yeah I'm not in the mood to drop this one. I live with three guys – an engineering geek, an IT geek?

At least it's not Evil Canadian Pensioners!

So Paul .... will Vodaphone give me a static IP at home? (the only reason I went to Orcon ....)

the phoneline is essential

Humankind managed for 40,000 years without one.

But society was not then based around large, spread-out cities and distributed social networks. If you live in a subsistence village where all your family are within five minutes' walk, and your job involves spreading muck on fields, then?

Most of the time you're really careful about this Russell, but if you're serious about making sure that this is always a good place for women to come, please don't insult our intelligence.

Jeez, lighten up. I think I use the phrase because in the back of my mind I?

I've got one of those too :)

A critic? Or the ability to record 6 channels?

Mum, I think, would be fine on it.

At least it's not Evil Canadian Pensioners!

Don't get me started.

Yeah I got the 'Go Large' plan too. Now I can't get a fixed IP address because that would interfere with Telecom's ability to switch your IP any time you start peering. Still, at least it doesn't cost me?

He's a retired test pilot and aerospace scientist.

Jeez, you probably can't even ridicule his driving.

Humankind managed for 40,000 years without one

I'm sure they'd rather have had it if they could've, though.

I'm surprised I was able to survive before cellphones, personally. I think my son will be skeptical about such old-timer's stories. "What did you do if you were late?" "Well son, in?

If you live in a subsistence village where all your family are within five minutes' walk, and your job involves spreading muck on fields, then you're fine.

Actually, there is a steady stream of news in the last year or two about how mobile phones are affecting (for the better)?

You know, I think my dad would get upset if I used him as a synonym for lack of technical expertise. He's a retired test pilot and aerospace scientist.

Mum, I think, would be fine on it.

I think it's reasonably safe to use Grandma as an example, and it's?

Very excited at this news though, did try Woosh and got nowhere fast, so have been paying vast sums of money to Telecom for some time now. Probably only use my landline phone once a week, hate having to?

he reckons the companies taught these illiterate rural african women to text using some sort of phonetic pictograms, and they took to it.

their villages had no?

In the early 80's, I had no usable phone whilst a student at uni. It was a pain, but I managed. If people wanted to contact me, they had to either find?

I think it's reasonably safe to use Grandma as an example

same. my mum is blimmin hopeless with gadgets. growing up in rural new zealand meant that 'the latest technology' was... a bigger v8.

They're probably not deals for your mum, but for communications-happy households they're a welcome innovation.

WTF? I thought we were past this sort of stereotyping these days. Bad Russell! Go sit on the naughty step and have a long think about what you've said. Time starts now...

food, water, clothing and shelter.

Yes, that's the bare minimum required to not die. But to live a soul needs music.

I can press a number key and set that, but I can't see a way to reduce the number of digits between the dots.

Have you tried putting an "01" to mean "1" (in place of the "11")? On some systems that I've played with this seems to work...

As?

Indications are that the major free-to-air networks will broadcast everything they can in HD, from launch. And launch is ? sometime in April.

"Everything they can" for TVNZ at the moment is pretty much nothing but the Olympics, according to today's Herald.

WTF? I thought we were past this sort of stereotyping these days. Bad Russell! Go sit on the naughty step and have a long think about what you've said. Time starts now...

The use of 'your mum' by tech geeks might have something to do with the 'fact' (ie statement?

most times when they're being asked to set up a system for someone with no tech nous, it's a woman.

... but when you're asked to fix a system that's been really rooted, it's for a man who should have asked for help earlier but didn't.

As an ex-ITsupport person?

Jeez, lighten up.

Ah, the time-honoured 'can't you chicks take a joke?' defence. :)

(I think the jury's still out on the sexism of 'your mum', though. I'm just not sure about it.)

I wonder how long before "World of Warcraft" becomes an essential of life. Coz without it, you know, you might have to go outside – and thats scary, with people and cars that might kill you and bad weather that could freeze you to death.

...and worst of all, your?

Yeah I got the 'Go Large' plan too. Now I can't get a fixed IP address because that would interfere with Telecom's ability to switch your IP any time you start peering. Still, at least it doesn't cost me hundreds every month now.

... eek, does this mean peeps on?

... eek, does this mean peeps on Go Large can't set up their system with a static IP address? Does Telecom poo-poo this by making something not work if you do?

And how, prey-tell, could one tell if Telecom was 'switching your IP' ..?

Basically, if you are using your?

he reckons the companies taught these illiterate rural african women to text using some sort of phonetic pictograms, and they took to it

Really? So rather than simply charge a reasonable rate for voice calls, they teach 'illiterate' 'Africans' a whole new written language so they have a use for?

(or something)

Ah, the time-honoured 'can't you chicks take a joke?' defence. :)

Thanks Danielle.

(I think the jury's still out on the sexism of 'your mum', though. I'm just not sure about it.)

It's not just the sexism aspect of it, it's also the agism – and I know my comment?

If it was big talk or a joke the guys I knew didn't take it that way at all.

And back to landlines – we often don't klnow our neighbours, people in our communities?

"Can we agree on "NZ First supporters" as a generalisation for the technologically illiterate?

As an ex IT support person for Parliament (a long time ago in the years of the spud), I confirm that this one will fly. In fact you could eliminate the word "supporters"

My mum taught me MS-DOS commands.

My mum updates unix scripts with Vi

"What did you do if you were late?" "Well son, in those day, people just had to suck on it".

Entire episodes of Seinfeld rely upon communication disasters that now seem irrelevant. Watching them now is a bit like watching a Shakespearean play where the plot hinges on a letter?

Who really needs caller ID? – How about you pick up the phone & say Hello?

I could wise crack here, but for once I will refrain & invite my younger brother to tell us why some people really do need caller ID. Or the Jaws ringtone associated with a certain calling?

Really? So rather than simply charge a reasonable rate for voice calls, they teach 'illiterate' 'Africans' a whole new written language so they have a use for cellphones? Surely the pinnacle of free market beneficence...

this was a conversation in the pub 5 years ago. i'm scant on details.

My mum updates unix scripts with Vi

There must be a million better ways to get your thrills in the new millenium? I always found Vi to be the definition of annoying and obscure.

It's not just the sexism aspect of it, it's also the agism – and I know my comment didn't explain that very well, sorry. I work to bridge gaps in technology knowledge and uptake,

yeah... but i've read you remark that you can't remember life without the internet. russell's mum,?

sigh – we in Dunedin get forgotten again – maybe I should start shovelling my $$ to someone other than Orcon

Dunedin, along with all major population centers in NZ, is definitely on our roadmap.

In order to get an exchange opened up for us to install our equipment we?

I always found Vi to be the definition of annoying and obscure.

I thought someone was playing a joke on me when I first saw it.

Yowza – good deal from Orcon. But danged if I can open their home page at www.orcon.net.nz

Yeah, sorry guys. Seem to be a couple of issues earlier today. These should be resolved now.

If anyone continues to have problems please let me know.

Cheers,
Duncan Blair
Group Product Manager?

Really? So rather than simply charge a reasonable rate for voice calls, they teach 'illiterate' 'Africans' a whole new written language so they have a use for cellphones? Surely the pinnacle of free market beneficence...

I don't know what sort of structure cell phone providers have in most places, but?

when is orcon going to do what other providers don't, and string some central wellington apartment blocks with fibre?

that's a market, surely?

Maybe the reason they're using txt rather than voice is because the pricing structure is much better for them, because the company has reflected their costs.

and maybe the infrastructure is cheaper where the traffic is lower?

What's the ETA for the roll out to Remuera? I switch to Orcon in a heartbeat!

We should be live in Remuera in April. For a more complete list of the next suburbs to get access to the good stuff check the website: Orcon's next unbundled exchanges

Cheers,
Duncan Blair?

They're probably not deals for your mum, but for communications-happy households they're a welcome innovation.

Ok, so "your mum" was being used a shorthand for a light internet user, but you know what's sort of strange about it? Well, mums normally comes?

when is orcon going to do what other providers don't, and string some central wellington apartment blocks with fibre?

With LLU we are doing what no one else is doing right now :)

But to answer your question we are pretty excited about potential applications of FTTP in the future.?

Cheers,
Duncan Blair
Group Product Manager
Orcon

I love love love the John Kirwan ads. They really speak to me, and apparently they're speaking to a whole lot of?

P.S. Mr. brown – don't tell people where the exchanges are! they don't have signs on them for a reason.... What if Te Qaeda were reading???

Ok, so "your mum" was being used a shorthand for a light internet user, but you know what's sort of strange about it? Well, mums normally comes with a dad. What about his internet?

Well, using my parents as an example, mum is the light internet user. And dad... well...?

do you see any sexist generalizations in this statement you made in another thread?

No.

There isn't even a comparison to be made. The whole point of Joanna's dug-up-and-requoted post is that people are *supposed* to see him as a god amongst men because he's an All Black, and that?

The thing is, in the current IPV4 world, addresses are a scarce resource and cost money to provide. Should the majority (who don't need one) subsidise the majority who do?

I really don't buy this vis a vis DSL broadband. My router is always connected and taking up?

I think it's fairly silly to try and make Russell prostrate himself before this issue.....You can't expect to control speech down to that level.

I wasn't trying to make anyone prostrate themselves, or try to control speech. If this wasn't a place I had a lot of respect for, I?

On a completely different note, I'm really liking that both Vodafone and Orcon are representing themselves in this discussion.

damn straight! duncan has just become my pin-up for "engaging with communities of interest".

he'll be clearly indicated in my next talk to public servants about "how to make social media?

It precisely in trivial language that sexism manifests, and it is precisely its trivality and commonplaceness and consequent direct route to our unconscious that make it important?

*Everyone* I talk to on Telstra is unhappy, but we?

No.

OK

There isn't even a comparison to be made.

no comparisons asked for nor needed.

The whole point of Joanna's dug-up-and-requoted post is that people are *supposed* to see him as a god amongst men because he's an All Black, and that he might actually need help too. So?

But we have had discussions in the past about what factors influence whether there are women commentators or not, so I thought I would point out that what obviously a lot of people see as being a trivial detail isn't actually so trivial to a lot of other people.

I?

Look at the stats, 75% male orientated and yet women out?

WTF? I thought we were past this sort of stereotyping these days. Bad Russell! Go sit on the naughty step and have a long think about what you've said. Time starts now...

Sigh ... alright, not deals for your mum and dad, then. My point related to generation, not gender.

I'm gonna tell my mum you said that tonight. Been trying to convince her to get broadband for ages, but when I lent her a Vodem it made her think that broadband was actually slower than dialup. They're in Herne Bay...how's that situated for high speed Orcon goodness?

Great! Herne?

... but when you're asked to fix a system that's been really rooted, it's for a man who should have asked for help earlier but didn't.

That's so true.

I think this "You suck at maths" carton captures our problem.

And my spelling prowess demonstrates it...

But this is the thought that has been running through mind as I read the whole thread...

The thing is,?

Sigh ... alright, not deals for your mum and dad, then. My point related to generation, not gender.

Ageist!

P.S. Mr. brown – don't tell people where the exchanges are! they don't have signs on them for a reason.... What if Te Qaeda were reading???

It's interesting that the owners of the unsigned buildings around Eden Terrace and other places consider they are secure because there is no big?

It doesn't mean she's incompetent or something,

Goodness no it doesn't...

although she did work out that unplugging it seemed to fix its glitches.

There you go, she could embark on a career in IT support now.

It precisely in trivial language that sexism manifests, and it is precisely its trivality and commonplaceness and consequent direct route to our unconscious that make it important to combat it.

Hey, I can't argue with Freud! I mean his theories of how the mind works haven't been rigorously discredited or?

I tried using BitTorrent, but rapidly got bored with waiting 24hrs for a file that might or might not turn up?

but when you're asked to fix a system that's been really rooted, it's for a man who should have asked for help earlier but didn't.

Heh, like the times I disabled my graphics card trying to upgrade the driver? The second time I did this (I know), I managed to?

Come to that, I don't "want to spend $80 a month just for internet". Whatever speed I get from Telecom and a 3G cap is fine for my browsing.

You're no use at all to the unbundling ISPs. They pay a per-line rental rate, and the non-premium "ordinary" broadband services?

Misplaced confidence is a better predictor of disaster than gender.

Being a man means thinking you don't have to read the manual. Gets me every time.

although she did work out that unplugging it seemed to fix its glitches.

There you go, she could embark on a career in IT support now.

I'd have to send her the secret phrasebook first. You're not "turning it off then on" — you're power-cycling the equipment.

:)

Oh, and can someone write me a script to replace all instances of "your mum" with "a mainstream consumer"?

Why not go for "Mum and Dad" or "your grandparents" or "the less demanding punter" or something?

You're no use at all to the unbundling ISPs. They pay a per-line rental rate, and the non-premium "ordinary" broadband services don't bring in enough to provide a viable margin.

Which is ineresting from my POV. I don't really need more bandwidth or more data (until I get ad-free decent?

Why not go for "Mum and Dad" or "your grandparents" or "the less demanding punter" or something?

It all means much the same thing, yes. Although I suspect I'll still use my own mum , mentally, as a benchmark for product usability. I just won't talk about it ...

Being a man means thinking you don't have to read the manual. Gets me every time.

And I thought it was the only one that thought that.

As for my mother, she's the tech support for about half the Kenepuru. And yes,?

I noticed her eyes had gone watery and she was looking down and trembling slightly

Well yes — I'd imagine it was quite traumatic for her, realising her beloved grandson was in fact Beelzebub.
Begone with your black sorcery!

As for my mother, she's the tech support for about half the Kenepuru. And yes, I am her tech support.

I need to put my dad onto her. He still hasn't got the Internet connected. Being one of the very last telephone's with a party line in New Zealand wouldn't?

And I thought it was the only one that thought that.

How about, I didn't think the manual was all that easy to understand.

And,

I need to put my dad onto her.

yikes no, I meant mention that there is a teck suport person in the?

International Observer

The thing is, in the current IPV4 world, addresses are a scarce resource and cost money to provide. Should the majority (who don't need one) subsidise the majority who do?

eh? I've only just joined this thread. Must've been someone else who said that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ8vd9p8fDU

This is Ellen MacArthur, real women stuff.
Oh and it technical.

I need to put my dad onto her. He still hasn't got the Internet connected. Being one of the very last telephone's with a party line in New Zealand wouldn't have helped.

There's an interesting concept. If you could use the internet on a party line, and one person downloaded?

Why not my dad?

Ok – but I'm not sure it's fair on your Dad that I constantly use him – "Hey, anyone can use it, including Jo's Dad!"

Or is it? :-)

It all means much the same thing, yes. Although I suspect I'll still use my own mum , mentally, as a benchmark

never, ever use your mum as a benchmark. there's some kind of psychology in there that always makes people look at you over their glasses.

in a freudian?

This is Ellen MacArthur, real women stuff.
Oh and it technical.

Ellen MacArthur kicks arse on land too.

he'll be clearly indicated in my next talk to public servants about "how to make social media work for your business".

Not taking anything away from either party or your praise Che & Jo but, um, aren't they both just, well, talking to customers.

Did we really need "social media" to?

never, ever use your mum as a benchmark. there's some kind of psychology in there that always makes people look at you over their glasses.
in a freudian way.

I am so over you varsity types ...

Being a man means thinking you don't have to read the manual.

I always regard manuals as opinion pieces.

On a completely different note, I'm really liking that both Vodafone and Orcon are representing themselves in this discussion.

I'd like to see more of it. There's no reason that professional communicators and decision-makers (Jim Anderton dropped in with a useful post in the research fund thread today too) shouldn't?

Oh, and can someone write me a script to replace all instances of "your mum" with "a mainstream consumer"?

Well, I had a go, but after it disastrously ruined my database of "your mum" jokes in testing, I decided to scrap it :(

"__A mainstream consumer__ is so fat, when?

but, um, aren't they both just, well, talking to customers.

what is this "customer" of which you speak?

I am so over you varsity types ...

chuckle.

I sometimes forget how many people have never seen what we do with the Internet.

My mum has become more interested — a couple of her friends are connected and they book tickets and stuff. She sometimes sees my blog. But she really doesn't want a computer — I've tried?

I need to put my dad onto her. He still hasn't got the Internet connected. Being one of the very last telephone's with a party line in New Zealand wouldn't have helped.

A fair chunk of the Kenepuru is being connected up with a community wifi project. Soon he?

Well yes — I'd imagine it was quite traumatic for her, realising her beloved grandson was in fact Beelzebub.
Begone with your black sorcery!

Sure looked that way. But I think it was more of a case of just feeling frightened and small in the face of the vast and?

Soon he may have better internet than you.

I'm still thinking about the Simpsons dad. Way are the Simpsons lads and dads so, stupid?

Not taking anything away from either party or your praise Che & Jo but, um, aren't they both just, well, talking to customers.

Did we really need "social media" to (re-learn how to) talk with customers?

I seem to recall my newsagent in Wales doing that a lot. Oh, and the?

the Marketing Manager of the brewery at the pub

*shudder* .... no, they didn't exist when I was going to pubs in Wales in my youth ... they made beer, I bought beer, I drank bee, we talked (not always about beer). The difference was in step 1 – THEY?

– darn my quote tag-less

But, gives me a chance to say – well done Luke/Epic Beer for getting back to the old fashioned way of doing it (using teh interwebs).

he'll be clearly indicated in my next talk to public servants about "how to make social media work for your business".

Not taking anything away from either party or your praise Che & Jo but, um, aren't they both just, well, talking to customers.

Did we really need "social media"?

Well, I had a go, but after it disastrously ruined my database of "your mum" jokes in testing, I decided to scrap it :(
"A mainstream consumer is so fat, when I told her to haul arse, she had to make two trips."

This dates me, but when I went?

Although I suspect I'll still use my own mum , mentally, as a benchmark for product usability. I just won't talk about it ...

.

Hey Russ – I've no problem with you using your Mum – just say what you mean and say "my mum". Then you only?

I seem to recall my newsagent in Wales doing that a lot. Oh, and the guy at the pub. And the lady in the fish and chip shop (my great aunt), she was always nattering to "the customer" ...

Good point.

The difference here Mike is that in your example,?

First, there?s Indifference to Cool. Strange as it may seem to approval-seeking youth,?

Cool is something you?ll eventually abandon as pointless effort.

Au contraire, it's something we eventually grow into and assume, like a mantle. Well, that's my experience anyway. And what I tell the inhouse teenager regularly.

is becoming at risk of becoming mainstream media

Not with comments like this from Daleaway it won't.

First, there?s Indifference to Cool.
Secondly, there?s Innovation Fatigue.
Thirdly, there?s the Bog Off factor.

Seriously good points that the MSM will never touch upon.

Meanwhile, the NBR website was being revamped and would be developed into what Gibson described as a right-wing answer to the Public Address website which had assembled left-wing commentators under its banner.

From, Drinnan, http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/466/story.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10498048
Sounds out of touch but kudos to PAS for seriously rattling some old school cages.

I seem to recall my newsagent in Wales doing that a lot. Oh, and the guy at the pub. And the lady in the fish and chip shop (my great aunt), she was always nattering to "the customer" ...

Heh, but unlike the newsagent I don't thingk the guys on?

Russell, surely nobody with a intel mac can use the old "it won't work on my mac" excuse anymore? bootcamp?

You still need something to boot into. I understand why people have windows vista, because it comes with the machine as a default. Paying more to put it on a?

Strange as it may seem to approval-seeking youth, Cool is something you?ll eventually abandon as pointless effort.

and Andrew replied:

Au contraire, it's something we eventually grow into and assume, like a mantle. Well, that's my experience anyway. And what I tell the inhouse teenager regularly.

And I?

Meanwhile, the NBR website was being revamped and would be developed into what Gibson described as a right-wing answer to the Public Address website which had assembled left-wing commentators under its banner.

That's actually good news. I'd personally enjoy a well-managed right-of-centre commentary site where the possibility of rational discussion?

Posted at 10:36AM on 14 Mar 08. Report. Permalink.

"it won't work on my mac" excuse anymore? bootcamp?

'wont work properly because it depends on Microsoft'

if i can get horrible philips drm mp3 player drivers to run on Virtual PC on a g4, any intel mac running windows natively?

Travelling through Pt Chev last weekend I saw the beginnings of the first Telecom Cabinet installations there, only slightly behind schedule. Roll on Grey Lynn I can't wait!
Now the question is will any other operators have access to those cabinets and the final loop? Perhaps the probable changes to?

sorry, the noob doesn't know how the quote thing works.

You had it right, except for a stray space in the tag to close the quote. Fixed now.

Meanwhile, the NBR website was being revamped and would be developed into what Gibson described as a right-wing answer to the Public Address website which had assembled left-wing commentators under its banner.

Their lazy pigeon holing of the riches to be found on this site doesn't auger well for them.?

Their lazy pigeon holing of the riches to be found on this site doesn't auger well for them.

Yes, they should have drilled down a bit further.

*boom boom*

ok, maybe it's not something your mum could do...

She can! I think the new question is: do's she need or want to?

Who'd have thought a rocky headland could lead to so much shallowness?

Its all the peaks and troughs ether side that can be harvested to fuel the?

(yeah, 'school' is my widget word of the day)

What a coincidence, one of my least cool moments in my life involved the word "widget".

The other involved updating a bunch of glamorous (it was the 80s) female money market dealers on the state of their money market compter system?

Yes, they should have drilled down a bit further.

*boom boom*

Exactly. How could they top that?

And you have to be quick.

And you have to be quick.

Ahh yes
FIRST!

Oh, and can someone write me a script to replace all instances of "your mum" with "a mainstream consumer"?

What did you just call my dear mum? Step outside, now!