If you look at returns, bank profits aren't out of line with other businesses. Assuming that one accepts capitalism in general, why should?

Yes they are. In recent years they have had a return on equity that other businesses dream of, despite the low-risk nature of their business and the large barriers to entry by competitors.

Many people are uncomfortable driving in tunnels. Some call it the Princess Diana syndrome, but many people suffer from genuine claustrophobia in such environments.

I'm sure that's an issue for some people, but he makes it sound like the motorway is the only possible way for these people to get?

Many of us enjoy walking. Surely, however, most of the pleasure lies in our enjoyment of the passing landscape. Will anyone enjoy walking any distance through a long tunnel beneath the harbour?

I hope someone pointed out to him that YOU CAN'T WALK ON THE MOTORWAY IN NEW ZEALAND! Whether?

(ANZ, 2006 – AUD3.6bln profits on AUD49bln market value = 7.3%
Woolworths, 2006 – AUD1.0bln profits on AUD22bln market value = 4.5%
Apple, 2007 – USD3.5bln profits on USD105bln market value = 3.3%)

ANZ made about 50% more than Woolworths – but [[http://www.google.com/finance?q=ASX%3AWOW|the stock price?

I?d have thought the tunnel aspect was a sideshow.

Being able to lend one dollar to twenty different people at once is pretty lucrative, though we tend to get suckered into looking at the interest charge to only one of those people.

You misunderstand fractional reserve banking, like a lot of people.

The bank has to pay interest on?

Profitability is about return on assets employed, not about the ratio of profit to share price. The stock price is irrelevant to any discussion of profitability.

Aussie banks have had return on equity in the high teen % for years now.

Ears, Eyebrows, Teleprompter Guy, and Terrified Guy

Yes, they sure are entertaining on fast forward.

You misunderstand fractional reserve banking

Accepted.

the poor bastards they make stay behind to read out the economic data have provided our household with hours (or five minutes a night, anyway) of entertainment

I so agree. Not that I'm mocking them: if I had to report to the nation for five minutes on 'what I did?

Yes, they sure are entertaining on fast forward

Never tried that, but I have a feeling Eyebrows in particular would be spectacular.

Many of them clearly aren't comfortable with the idea of a bloody great big motorway splitting their suburb.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if the costs of paying off the residents for an above-ground Waterview route approach or exceed that of a tunnel.

And would Owen McShane say what?

But the big argument is still the price tag. Like the poor bastards in the vicinity of St Lukes living on borrowed time, the?

profit:shareprice is a bizarre measure. Sorry.

You're welcome to think that. It's the one I prefer (it equates to the P/E ratio, just the other way up). The market capitalisation is the best indication of what the whole business is worth – what people are willing to pay for it.?

imagine Wellington's entrance as only the Old Hutt Road funneling through Aotea Quay today?

I'd prefer a big car park up by the Cake Tin and a $10 charge if you want to advance further by car.

With "Tunnel or Nothing" signs starting to sprout all along the proposed SH20 route, it's clear that the eventual nature of the road — under the neighbourhood or through it — will be an issue for the folk of Mt Albert in their by-election.

With every party trying to improve?

Sustainability is a popular word with politicians and pressure groups because ?Sustainability? means whatever the speaker, or the listener, wants it to mean. Ask most people what they mean by ?sustainable? and the replies will be more garbled than most lay attempts to explain quantum mechanics.?

But the big argument is still the price tag. Like the poor bastards in the vicinity of St Lukes living on borrowed time, the SH20 route has been around for yonks. A tunnel would just socialise the losses that were built into the privately affected property prices.

Much of SH20?

Also, charming "entertainments" at the same site..."

Wow. That does more to show where they stand than the sum of their Press Releases, Centre Digests and Columns combined.

Also, charming "entertainments" at the same site...

Godwin's Law #3: Reductio ad bin Ladenum.

The Herald today has two relevant stories: Aussie banks' rates higher in NZ and Lack of transparency 'fuelling distrust of banks'. There's even a Your Views. But, as we'll note in the show, there's much more stroppiness on customers' behalf in the Australian media.

It will be interesting to hear?

Cam Pitches on the Campaign for Better Transport blog said yesterday:

It is worth repeating that the difference between the full tunnel option and the next best partly above ground option is small in the context of the size of the project – $200m. This has to be the tunnel?

If a drunk driver crashes into a random lamppost above ground, killing passengers not wearing seatbelts, can that be called the Princess Diana syndrome??

I?d have thought the tunnel aspect was a sideshow.

The lesson I took from it was to avoid Mercedes sedans. Oh, and Paris.

Also, charming "entertainments" at the same site...

Godwin's Law #3: Reductio ad bin Ladenum.

Rolfenui!

And would Owen McShane say what he'd usually say if it cut through Remuera or Epsom?

Oh, probably. You have to understand that Owen issues his fatwas against selfish suburbanites and their families from the Centre for Resource Management Studies HQ in Kaiwaka, Northland.

The lesson I took from it was to avoid Mercedes sedans. Oh, and Paris.

Also:
– when coked off your head, make sure the guy driving isn't as munted as you are

– unflattering photographs rarely kill anyone

– in a republic, at least you get to elect the lunatics

The lesson I took from it was to avoid Mercedes sedans. Oh, and Paris.

I learned to never, no matter what, divorce the Prince of Wales.

Paris has a bit of a history of being a place where people go die.

Di, Picasso, Jim Morrison, Yassar Arafat, a Concord full of German tourists....

Oh, probably. You have to understand that Owen issues his fatwas against selfish suburbanites and their families from the Centre for Resource Management Studies HQ in Kaiwaka, Northland.

In other words, equal opportunity of being Prossered?

When it got cold during the little ice age the Europeans invented knitting and the Polynesians had the good sense to stop sailing towards New Zealand.

If I beat this guy to death with a history textbook, I have the full support of all here, right?

You have to understand that Owen issues his fatwas against selfish suburbanites and their families from the Centre for Resource Management Studies HQ in Kaiwaka, Northland.

So in other words it's "Sucks for you, I got rich and bought a lifestyle block, now keep public spending and taxes as low?

Furthermore, this motorway network will exist and be in use for hundreds of years. Surely the specifications of such a major piece of infrastructure should not be determined by the wishes of households whose average stay is measured in years.

My brain, she explodes with teh stupid

If it is Sky TV's doing, then a great big steaming bag of expletives will be left on Sky's doorstep.

Paris has a bit of a history of being a place where people go die.

So, a bit like Waikenae, but faster and with better architecture.

Paris has a bit of a history of being a place where people go die.

So, a bit like Waikenae, but faster and with better architecture.

Before he too misty eyed about Paris, might be worth thinking about how much of it was due to people like Georges-Eugène Haussmann who,?

I hope someone pointed out to him that YOU CAN'T WALK ON THE MOTORWAY IN NEW ZEALAND! Whether it's above or below ground.

With tunnels, there's a special section dedicated to walkers and cyclists. It's called "above".

Oh, probably. You have to understand that Owen issues his fatwas against selfish suburbanites and their families from the Centre for Resource Management Studies HQ in Kaiwaka, Northland.

Actually, his more fantastic arguments are:

1) All this thought is given to the air quality in the community – what about?

much of it was due to people like Georges-Eugène Haussmann

I'm with Baudelaire in preferring the pre-Haussmannised Paris (or in my case, the remnants of it). The Champs Elysee is actually rather boring compared to the mazes of old alleys in places like the Marais, and considering that the rather?

The Herald today has two relevant stories: Aussie banks' rates higher in NZ

That article really should have been entitled:?

I hope someone pointed out to him that YOU CAN'T WALK ON THE MOTORWAY IN NEW ZEALAND! Whether it's above or below ground.
___
With tunnels, there's a special section dedicated to walkers and cyclists. It's called "above".

And I'd like to point out that it's also illegal to cycle?

Oh, also: I notice that Daily Show episodes are freely available on iTunes. Are they blocked as well?

I can't see them on iTunes, and aren't they a paid download anyway?

Off topic:
Russell, really enjoy Media7 but I only watch it as?

Start the News of the World here

Rusty, Boy about Town that you are, it augurs well that you invoke those Woking class heroes The Jam in today's augering title, __Going Underground__?

Oh, also: I notice that Daily Show episodes are freely available on iTunes. Are they blocked as well?

What do you mean freely? I thought they were 3 dollars a pop, did they remove that? Don't have itunes myself to check but I'd download it in a flash it if?

And then there's a panel on the art market in a recession,

So now would be a good time to plug the NZ Affordable Art Show which has pumped nearly $3 million back to 100s of artists over the last few years.

http://www.affordableart.co.nz/

"Open roads are generally frightening places to even drive through ? shades of JFK spring too readily to mind."

ROTFLMFAO

It may actually just be a single download I suppose, don't have iTunes on this puter to check-a-check it out.

If I beat this guy to death with a history textbook, I have the full support of all here, right?

It would seem more appropriate to stab him in the eyes with a couple of ice age era knitting needles. But whatever you have close to hand

I suppose that?

It may actually just be a single download I suppose

First one's always free, bro.

there will be roads/cycleways above ground, which, while not quite as efficient as a motorway, won't be horrific for getting from A to B.

Personally, I cycle around the bays – an extra 2k each?

Supporting public transport, walking and cycling
The Waterview Connection project will take business freight and other through traffic off local roads:

freeing them up for improved public transport services and time reducing 'rat running' on residential streets?

First one's always free, bro.

Heh. Just try it out, a little Johnny Stewart never hurt anyone one time huh?

It's obviously a widespread decision given this post has gotten to 31 pages already

Personally, I cycle around the bays – an extra 2k each way on my commute, exposed to the full force of Wellington's wind – rather than ride through the Mt Vic tunnel twice a day. I'm astonished that anyone does it, frankly.

I've often wondered about this as a quandary?

No comment required.

Leaving Weller 'nuff alone...

Remember, Shout to the top !
Weller done Mr Dalziel ;)

the idea is that the easier you make it the more people are likely to cycle, but once they actually become proper keen cyclists they'll likely just do it the hard way instead on purpose.

Well, I'd say that it's good to encourage people to become regular cyclists, but not?

Let's assume the reasons you gave are right (it's seems kind of odd that content licensees all over the world requested that you shut down access in their respective countries at the same time,?

From their website,

The Centre for Resource Manangement Studies Trust

The Centre for Resource Management?

The present Trustees are Don Brash (Chairman)

Good God.

it'd be absolutely vile to go through (as the Mt Vic tunnel is

Spot on, Jack. I'd rather dodge taxis and drunk drivers in the bus tunnel that travel the seven and a half minutes on foot through that echo chamber of noxious fumes.

Russell, ta for the links to?

And when cyclists or pedestrians are in a tunnel they have no easy escape route from crazed drivers who delight in driving into them, or even from potential kidnappers or molesters.

Sorry I'm late, I was just playing Grand Theft Auto.....

I once owned a block nearby. Nice area, great views, pleasant climate.

I'd like to say that proximity to Owen was one of the reasons we?

And notice the hypocrisy: the local families are only a fly spec in time relative to this motorway, but the present generation should have the unconstrained right to exploit the worlds resources without regard to future generations.

A visit to Nauru & Easter Island would be a good start for these?

Agriculture Minister David Carter has rejected a call to ban pesticides which put bees in jeopardy.

Green MP Sue Kedgley yesterday urged the Government to follow the European?

The SH20 route runs at the far western edge of the ward bordering Avondale ward.

When SH20 was being mooted several years ago, the?

Lobbyists such as Connor English, Tony Riley, Roger Kerr, Tony Friedlander for example?

All of you dumb fucks, Christopher — plague on all your houses, and I hope it hurts. Sorry, the next time anyone wants to talk about several hundred million dollars like its petty cash sod off to?

Plus also the primary school was another consideration being so close to the new motorway. Christopher, quickly whilst I'm here, just wanted to say good on you for fighting on behalf of the elderly and the disabled with regards to the Sandringham Kiwibank.

And from me. I confess to feeling?

All of you dumb fucks, Christopher — plague on all your houses, and I hope it hurts. Sorry, the next time anyone wants to talk about several hundred million dollars like its petty cash sod off to the nearest school, hospice or women's refuge and cash the reality check.

Steady?

Plus also the primary school was another consideration being so close to the new motorway.

The primary school is very problematic in either option; the tunnel portals would exit at a point just north of there, while the surface option would see a 'spagetti' junction?

If the Government comes out with an el cheapo, neighbourhood-ruining, overland solution for the Waterview Connection in the next week or so, it will suggest National's market research shows they haven't a chance of winning the Mt Albert byelection.

And that being so,?

whoops – offical hat wearing ends there

But it's such a nice hat ...

We entered in good faith into a participation process which has lasted quite a few years. This process, as it?

build a new port at Te Atatu

Was that ever considered? You could have a huge Auckland yuppie quarter if *all* the wharves were shifted out West. One would need to dynamite a big channel through Meola Reef though. And raise/replace the bridge, possibly?

whoops – offical hat wearing ends there

But it's such a nice hat ...

Thankyou.

I'm sorry to be whipping hats on and off, but its for my protection. :)

sod off to the nearest school, hospice or women's refuge and cash the reality check.

Craig, while I agree about the undue priority given to building roads as opposed to strengthening communities, I do not think that trade-off will fly in this case. They're going to build a transport connection?

build a new port at Te Atatu

Was that ever considered?

It was still on the books well into the 70s, but container ships got bigger and someone worked out the huge money and environmental cost of maintaining a channel. The bridge was built with a navigation span and ships?

Kind of missed my point — well, totally missed, but shall try again. While tens of millions of dollars might be nothing to the pundit-political complex, it means a hell of a lot to the overwhelming majority of people who actually pay taxes and rates. Wouldn't hurt to be?

Given that the government has recently?

Off the top of my head, I almost feel like we need public transport investment now to get us through the next 10-20 years, with investment to finish?

Firstly, this is what Steven Joyce said in parliament yesterday:

Hon Darren Hughes: Minus financing costs, what is the cost of the twin two-lane tunnel option for the Waterview Connection that Labour proposed, and how does it compare with?

There are other projects that need this money more, and are more justifiable. This is turning into a tunnel v surface?

Apropos of nothing much, so excuse the diversion: Editing the Herald falls foul of its subject.

And big ups to PA System's own ScottY for helping out and making me feel bad about teasing lawyers.

when it should be a "can we justify spending at least $2.2 billion on a 4.5 km road" argument.

Aren't we well past that point? The decision to complete the Western Ring has been made and now it's about how to do it? You'd like to think that the decision?

How about after we invest in a CBD rail loop and rail to the airport?

Anyway, I look forward to hearing Steven Joyce pluck something magic?

Auckland's population will be 2.3 million by 2050

If they live in the present inner suburbs, that would be fine. The city could grow to 4 or 5 million on its current footprint and become *easier* to get around (because proper public transit would become economically viable).

If they live?

And big ups to PA System's own ScottY for helping out and making me feel bad about teasing lawyers.

You should feel bad. We're sensitive souls.

Find Mr McShane's house and build SH1 right through it I say.

Better still, drive the bulldozer through, while he's asleep. And display the resultant trophy on the wall in Te Papa.

Find Mr McShane's house and build SH1 right through it I say.

Better still, drive the bulldozer through, while he's asleep. And display the resultant trophy on the wall in Te Papa.

I think you'll find the Kiwiblog meltdown is next door...

I think you'll find the Kiwiblog meltdown is next door...

So, we only need to veer slightly to the side and pick up a twofer! FTW!

I think you'll find the Kiwiblog meltdown is next door...

i dunno... this sounded a bit like meltdown too...

All of you dumb fucks, Christopher — plague on all your houses, and I hope it hurts.

i dunno... this sounded a bit like meltdown too...

No fair!! Bringing facts to a rant is inexcusable.

Well, yes. I have a pretty high crap tolerance (on the basis that if you dish it out, got to be able etc.), but I don't take kindly to being called a partisan hack — no matter how passive-agressive it may be. Sorry, just makes me a wee bit?

Sorry, just makes me a wee bit cranky.

Jebus, Craig, breathing seems to make you cranky lately.