Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: He even has his Baldrick

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  • Don Christie,

    Graeme. I would be interested to know, what is the difference between a welfare state desired by Social Democrats and a nanny state desired of, um I don't quite know who? Is Field now more honourable in his appearance to you than those nanny statists he left behind?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1615 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Rowe,

    Or his principle is that the Government shouldn't interfere in NZer's family lives. And he doesn't want to be a member of a political party that doesn't hold to that principle.

    heh. If he doesn't want to interfere in people's lives, he shouldn't be a politician!

    Lake Roxburgh, Central Ot… • Since Nov 2006 • 560 posts Report Reply

  • Scott Common,

    CAS1310-73-2 Said :

    Is that figure still 80%? will it be in 6 months? will be interesting

    Was it ever really 80% - how much confidence do we have in these polls to be true representations of the NZ public? Personally I always take those types of polls with a very large grain of salt.

    But you raise a very good question - once it becomes clear exactly what the implications of the changes are how will this affect peoples acceptance of the changes.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 62 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Or his principle is that the Government shouldn't interfere in NZer's family lives.

    Copeland? Really? Guess it depends on your definition of 'family'.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4350 posts Report Reply

  • Tim Hannah,

    Or his principle is that the Government shouldn't interfere in NZer's family lives. And he doesn't want to be a member of a political party that doesn't hold to that principle.

    If that were true then he should resign from politics altogether. All parties want to (and do) interfere in NZer's family lives, just not in the same way.

    His 'principle' in this case is that family lives should only be interfered with in ways that he supports.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 224 posts Report Reply

  • Hamboy,

    Is that figure still 80%? will it be in 6 months? will be interesting

    Will probably go the way of the prostitution reform and Civil Union bills. Eg eveyone forgets about them and moves on to the next slight on "family" values.

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 162 posts Report Reply

  • Sarah Flynn,

    Hmph. I don't think Copeland's decision has all that much to do with the Bradford bill - given that he's been seriously ruminating on this move since January (a VERY long time in politics!). I think he's conscious that UF has been bleeding support because it's not clearly distinguishing itself from the major parties (as was the case with the Alliance/ Progressives/ whatever they ended up being called), and he's betting that he's not going to end up representing UF in Parliament after next year anyway - so if he wants to establish any kind of platform & profile for a new party before the next election, he'd better make the break now.

    Copeland's position of the Bradford bill is a useful justification for his move as it's better to make the break because of a point of difference (as opposed to just being fed up generally), and it's guaranteed to get some media coverage and the germ of a support base from people who are conservative Christians but want a less rabid alternative than Brian Tamaki. I don't consider his move to be a cynical one, rather I believe it's a fair political strategy - but that's my explanation for why the rationale he's offered doesn't bear close scrutiny.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 16 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    Don - in base terms, a welfare state is one that gives you money to raise your children, a Nanny state is one that tells you how to raise your children. I'd note that my use of the terms was largely rhetorical to get across the point that the Conservative vote Field might take wouldn't be to National's detriment.

    More honourable than those he left behind - no. But I probably think more of him in some sense than I otherwise would have. Much in the same way I started to admire Milosevic in his final years...

    Paul - I've no problem with the existence of politicians who vote against everything. I don't think I'd vote for them, but ACT (particularly of late) seems to be setting itself apart as a party that opposes state intervention. The alternative of "well, I oppose the unbundling of the local loop, for example, so I'll make it so only those who support it are in Parliament" would be a little odd :-)

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 2999 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Litterick,

    a welfare state is one that gives you money to raise your children, a Nanny state is one that tells you how to raise your children

    So New Zealand became a Nanny State in 1877 with the passing of the Education Act, making children's education compulsory.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1000 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    Time to start the discussion on the abolition of the undemocratic threshold? Certainly not my cup of tea, but Destiny New Zealand scored enough votes at the last election to get Richard Lewis into Parliament. What right in a democracy have the rest of us to tell them to stuff off unless they earn enough votes for 6 MPs?

    Graeme,

    Any party need only have one electorate MP elected in order to gain representation for their party. Indeed, United Future is in parliament, not for reaching the threshold - which if memory serves, it didn't - but by virtue of Dunne's Ohariu-Belmont win.

    Also note that, contrary to your implication, it is now easier than ever for small parties to win parliamentary representation. Recall 1981, where Social Credit scored more than a fifth of the popular vote, though attained seats only for Beetham and Knapp, out of the then 60.

    Personally, I'm getting pretty sick of these oppurtunistic "centrist", "common sense" parties (NZF, UF) hijacking the middle 5% of parliament. If anything, the threshold should be raised.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    For the record, Copeland's press conference yesterday, audio on Scoop:

    Each of us in United Future have had the privilege, unlike those in the Labour party and, after the compromise, in the National party, of actually being able to follow our conscience.

    So naturally he left.

    (He might have said many wise and wonderful things thereafter, but listening to 5 minutes of a Copeland press conference was enough for one day, sorry. Scoop has it in full, if you're even sadder than I am).

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 757 posts Report Reply

  • Robert Fox,

    Ironically most right leaning Christian libertarians oppose state interferance into peoples lives but accept attampts by their Church interfearance in people's lives.

    Since Nov 2006 • 106 posts Report Reply

  • Robert Fox,

    Sorry I really need to learn how to spell , third time lucky "Interference"

    Since Nov 2006 • 106 posts Report Reply

  • Tony Kennedy,

    Heading off on a tangent (again), Copeland’s defection presents the following opportunity for Election 2008….

    The First United Future of New Zealand Party
    Or
    The Future for New Zealand United party
    Or
    The United New Zealand First party

    or <fill it in yourself>

    Co- leaders of course (just like the greens)

    lazy $5 bucks anyone

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 218 posts Report Reply

  • Heather Gaye,

    Alliance/ Progressives/ whatever they ended up being called

    FWIW, the Alliance is still called the Alliance, and the Progressive party is still called Jim.

    Under the western motorwa… • Since Nov 2006 • 523 posts Report Reply

  • Lyndon Hood,

    I just find it hilarious Copeland was late for the actual vote.

    Oh, and this: Salon: Tinky Winky says bye-bye to Jerry Falwell

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1095 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell,

    And while "alliance" is moot, "united" is close to deceptive advertising.

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 1532 posts Report Reply

  • Sodium Hydroxide,

    the progressives have a candidate running for christchurch mayorilty on a platform of pro-economic development and pro-free education insurance policy, (now that gaz has got 87 directorships) that ll please jim.

    also re chronicle of higher education article on iraqi professors being shot up reminds me of hitler burning books, china rewriting histories and the us business party exploiting global system to dominate energy supply and manipulate soverign states. marvellous

    The desert of the real • Since May 2007 • 23 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Litterick,

    And while "alliance" is moot, "united" is close to deceptive advertising

    For that matter, so is "future."

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1000 posts Report Reply

  • rodgerd,

    Or his principle is that the Government shouldn't interfere in NZer's family lives.

    I assume he'll be campaigning to repeal compulsory school attendance so kids can be put out to support the family at 12, like my grandad.

    After all, it's interefering in family lives to force me to keep my kids in school.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 512 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    If that's his principle.

    I don't believe he's said it is, I was merely formulating a soundbite-friendly response to someone's suggestion that there couldn't be a principle behind Copeland's move.

    The principle of non-interference with family life, to which no-one may in fact adhere, is a principle upon which someone might withdraw from a political party. There are obviously others to which one could nail one's colours, and Copeland is welcome to do that.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 2999 posts Report Reply

  • dc_red,

    NaOH said:

    marvellous

    Are you really John Campbell?

    Oil Patch, Alberta • Since Nov 2006 • 706 posts Report Reply

  • Sodium Hydroxide,

    Silence!

    The desert of the real • Since May 2007 • 23 posts Report Reply

  • Sodium Hydroxide,

    oh and also 15 minutes to the budget.
    marvellous

    The desert of the real • Since May 2007 • 23 posts Report Reply

  • Neil Morrison,

    As part of the Vanity Fair interview with Hitchens the interviewer as part of a question says -

    Lawrence Wright says in his one-man show, "My Trip to al-Qaeda," that getting along with women is a large part of what civilization is about.

    Quite an interesting observation.

    The Times has podcasts of Dawkins and Hitchens, not surprisingly, arguing for the affirmative in - Are we better off without religion?.

    Since Nov 2006 • 932 posts Report Reply

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