Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Introducing: The New Zealand Media Archives

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  • Russell Brown, in reply to Sacha,

    Perhaps better to think of it as certain relationships rather than skills. People don’t trust others with their taonga only because of skills.

    That's exactly what I've been trying to say.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • paynter, in reply to Russell Brown,

    David actually raised the issue by suggesting that Simon’s idea might be “a further waste of resources” when the Turnbull already had its own music archive. It really seems evident to me than an independent archive, within in a structure that facilitates best practice, will do things the Turnbull couldn’t. And more the point, isn’t.

    Yep, and the final word is the kicker: isn't.

    I could never get a price for digitising a work for republication, and not for want of trying. I had no problem with the idea that it had to be done properly, but I couldn’t find a way of doing it at all.

    Yes, we are struggling with and working through these issues within ATL and NatLib. We hope to update our access policies to cover (verbatim) reproduction and reuse soon (in line with NZGOAL). And in this sense published works are relatively simple (unless they're orphaned). It's the donated (and particularly unpublished) material that has the real fishhooks.

    Gordon

    Since Nov 2006 • 29 posts Report Reply

  • Russell C, in reply to paynter,

    Yes, I certainly recognise that NatLib already had a big change programme underway long before the merger was announced. My point is that in the absence of any measurable criteria for the success or otherwise of the merger and the Minister’s own acknowledgement that there was nothing wrong – that the agencies concerned were doing a good and effective job, that the only driver for it seems to be idealogical. There do not seem to be any rational drivers for it and as there are no measurable goals, there can never be a review point against which to determine whether it was in fact of benefit to the public. History shows us what occurred when last ANZ was part of DIA (and NatLib even longer before that) – let’s hope things will be better this time but I’d like to see some measures associated with the merger to reassure me that my tax paying dollars are being spent wisely in this regard and that we’re not all just subsidising a public sector bashing/vote gathering political stuns that undermine effective services to New Zealanders.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 37 posts Report Reply

  • paynter, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Perhaps better to think of it as certain relationships rather than skills. People don’t trust others with their taonga only because of skills.

    That’s exactly what I’ve been trying to say.

    It cuts both ways though. Publishers simply wont trust us with their stuff unless they believe we'll do the right thing around copyright and other IP rights.

    Which is one reason that collecting instituions like NatLib are historically risk averse when it comes to allowing uses above and beyond what the donor/publisher has explicitly permitted. (Which is a particular problem when most donor agreements predate the internet.)

    Which I think we all find frustrating.

    Gordon

    Since Nov 2006 • 29 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Russell Brown,

    That's exactly what I've been trying to say.

    There's a relief. I added the word 'mana' too. Libraries and archives have that as well, no question.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Russell C,

    History shows us what occurred when last ANZ was part of DIA (and NatLib even longer before that)

    Worth remembering that preventing disasters like last time's damage to the nation's founding document has to be a higher priority from slashed public sector budgets than adding a new service.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • paynter, in reply to Sacha,

    preventing disasters like last time’s damage to the nation’s founding document

    Is there any evidence this actually happened?

    Since Nov 2006 • 29 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to paynter,

    Is there any evidence this actually happened?

    I thought it was pretty widely publicised. Surely media archives can help you verify? :)

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Simon Grigg,

    It has no exact parallel in New Zealand to date but has elements of NZ on Screen, Wikipedia, Facebook, the All Music Guide, the work of people like Chris Bourke, John Dix & Andrew Schmidt, and Rock’s Back Pages mixed in. I’m very uncomfortable using the word archive for this, as it’s not

    Simon, Have you looked at the current version of the Encyclopedia of NZ? It's built in Drupal (IIRC) with lots of lovely Dublin Core metadata, heaps of AV and facsimile segments and all the text you can eat. As a model it seems to me to fulfil the requirements you mention for fulfilling the second prong, lacking only the people and the money to make that happen. I tend to agree with Tamsin, though - it's a political issue at heart, as in "who will pay for this?". I believe the reason most libraries (and NatLib especially) are not working in this space to the level you would like is that no-one paying the bills regards it as core business and therefore worth funding.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2937 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Sacha,

    I thought it was pretty widely publicised. Surely media archives can help you verify? :)

    To be fair, the bulk of the damage to that document occurred before it ever reached Archives New Zealand.

    In my informed opinion, the main issue with Archives being part of DIA earlier was being a small cog inside a large wheel, and not a very squeaky one. Being a separate department meant being able to make appropriate professional and technical choices that did not have to intermesh with the rest of DIA, and was not subject to the internal political prioritization that large omnibus departments like DIA (and MED, to a large extent) are prone to. This has made Archives a very effective agency, over the last decade.

    One should also remember that Archives New Zealand is the memory of government, not just a repository for anything old. National Library is the place for non-governmental archiving. There is still much concern in the library, archives and recordkeeping communities (another division most people don’t think about) about the impacts of the merger, especially around skilled staff leaving and some absurd technical decisions that I, for one, keep hearing about. Lotus Notes, FFS! And a old version to boot.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2937 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to nzlemming,

    the Encyclopedia of NZ

    Side issue, but a classic example of major investment of public funds in producing a site that fails official accessibility standards, and not fixed since. Not that I'm saying you need any reminding, Mark, but it would be nice for the nation's formal memory to be available to all its citizens, not just the non-disabled ones.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to nzlemming,

    I believe the reason most libraries (and NatLib especially) are not working in this space to the level you would like is that no-one paying the bills regards it as core business and therefore worth funding.

    Which is fair enough, so far as it goes. There's never enough funding. But I think I'm right in saying it's not that Simon wants NatLib et al to take on the job, as for there to be a little support for the momentum that he and the likes of Andrew Schmidt are already generating. Can you see the difference there?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Just a word for whoever’s doing the good work at Christchurch City Libraries.

    The online collection of 1980s music posters is simply fabulous.

    And the same libraries’ Advert Music is a really good idea – providing information, some of it crowdsourced, on what the music in well-known TV ads is.

    OTOH, Te Ara’s page on New Zealand music is little more than a placeholder; it’s cursory and dated. Okay, there are other priorities, but no one’s going to click the “contribute your story” button on that page. People will, however, queue up to tell their stories, and give their discographies and histories to Simon. Because he’s Simon, and he has the mana.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to paynter,

    Yes, we are struggling with and working through these issues within ATL and NatLib. We hope to update our access policies to cover (verbatim) reproduction and reuse soon (in line with NZGOAL).

    Actually Gordon, do you think you or someone else could do us a guest blog explaining some of those acronyms – and, more particularly, what’s available digitally and how to get at it? I think there’d be a lot of interest in that.

    Semi-regularly, even :-)

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    And before I STFU and let someone else have a word, something really exciting that’s been happening this year – William Daymond digitising and uploading live performance videos originally shot by Bob Sutton.

    I confess to having been particularly delighted to see this clip of Tall Dwarfs performing ‘Crush’ at the Windsor Castle in 1985. I’m in it, I was rather intoxicated at the time, and I was relieved when it appeared to see that I wasn’t doing anything too stupid at the time:

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Oh hell, one more. The Chills performing Martin Phillipps’ much-loved bFM jingle.

    Notable for the quality of the annotation. The question for me isn’t how and when NatLib or Te Ara would do the job at some future date when it is deemed important, but how people already doing the work can be given the tools to do it in such a way that it integrates with official efforts.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Russell Brown,

    People will, however, queue up to tell their stories, and give their discographies and histories to Simon. Because he’s Simon, and he has the mana.

    I've lost track of how many times this factor has been overlooked by the designers of public archives, especially digital ones.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Grigg,

    ...humbled - but thank you.

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3284 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    I've lost track of how many times this factor has been overlooked by the designers of public archives, especially digital ones.

    Broader than that area, sadly. Often all the effort goes into some software or associated organisational functions without enough attention to the way real humans will interact with them. And then there's surprise when it fails to work as intended.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Thanks for that link to the 1954 Mazengarb Report, Russell. It includes the following thoughtful comments:

    "Just when, how long, and how often, children, adolescents, and even parents listen to the radio is something that has never been accurately determined in New Zealand. It is well known that young children listen after 7 p.m. and that adolescents listen until a very late hour, particularly on holidays, and for this last-named fact no allowance is made when the programmes are being arranged. Adolescents listening to the latest songs stimulate the demand for popular sheet music. It is the words of those "hits" that form the chief target for criticism expressed to this Committee. Popular songs are transitory in nature, and it is the tune, rather than the words, that makes an impression."

    "Although television is not yet available in New Zealand, its introduction is inevitable. Overseas reports of its effects on children, adolescents, and even adults indicate that plans to minimize any harmful effects in New Zealand should be made without delay...The arrival of another visual and auditory influence will add weight to the suggestion made to the Committee that liaison should be established between all the various censoring authorities."

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3229 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Sacha,

    but it would be nice for the nation's formal memory to be available to all its citizens, not just the non-disabled ones.

    Actually, I did consult with them in my official capacity up until 2005, while they were building and bedding down, and they weren't doing too bad a job. There seemed to be text-based alternatives for all the AV stuff and the nav was pretty good when last I went though it officially. I found them very receptive to issues, so send any problems in to them and see what their response is.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2937 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Russell Brown,

    oh, yeah, thoroughly agree. I only raised Te Ara because that seemed to me closest to what Simon was talking about, not because I wanted them to take it on. The technology is the easy bit ;-)

    Also, because the Te Ara programme is heavily multi-disciplinary and that's what Simon's archive needs as well.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2937 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to nzlemming,

    I found them very receptive to issues, so send any problems in to them and see what their response is.

    +1. I think the culture there is to be responsive. try 'em.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Talked informally with developers years ago. No improvement since - easily verified by running any automated checker on their site. Personally over doing free work for multi-million-dollar projects.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Sacha,

    Automated checkers are crap, and I say this with bitter experience. Also, stuff doesn't get fixed unless they know about it. Just saying.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2937 posts Report Reply

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