I realise there is some short term money to be made but not far beyond short term, web apps are hard to beat for multi-device functionality.

ACP wanted an app, but with the constraint that they didn't have extra resource for layout, which is what Wired et al use (they create separate PNG layouts for each iPad orientation and don't support iPhone). ACP also wanted to support both iOS devices if possible.

So we built a?

web apps are hard to beat for multi-device functionality

Sounds like it took a lot of cunning effort from Cactuslab to make their app work across even Apple's locked-down ecosystem.

Would it be too rude to ask how much it cost?

NZ Prices. By contrast a good netbook – Atomn450, 160GB hard drive, 10 inch screen, 1.2 kg, Windows 7 starter – sets you back a little over $600. I guess it's the closest comparison amongst existing devices, isn't it?

Would it be too rude to ask how much it cost?

iPad prices from Dick Smith – same everywhere, really.

Having owned a couple of netbooks myself, in the loosest sense they're comparable bnce you use an iPad though you realize they're very different things.
I think when you hold a website in your hand like a book you realize how if anything the iPad is probably really what a?

Now they have a web and email (and music playing, YouTube surfing, family photo showing) device that isn't tied?

They were unenthusiastic web and email users and have taken to it really well.

I've been wondering whether that experience will be an unexpected way that the device shines.

Oh, and as for RSS readers on iOS devices – i'm loving Reeder for iPhone, if its available for iPad its?

Especially since someone has ported TeX to the iPad. If Apple can fix the version?

And just because it was today, a guy sent me this dress-up Obama web toy demoing his open?

You cannot even BEGIN to compare the iPad UI to Windows 7 running on a tablet or a netbook. They're doing completely different things.

Yeah, cos Windows 7 will show me websites with Flash in them, and I can tether my phone and.. and... I'm doing it with 5-6 year?

Yeah, cos Windows 7 will show me websites with Flash in them, and I can tether my phone and.. and... I'm doing it with 5-6 year old technology. So no, you can't compare them.

If those things are critical for you, then you can jailbreak your iPad and do them.?

Yeah, cos Windows 7 will show me websites with Flash in them.

If the iPad contributes somehow to reducing the amount of Flash used in websites, I'll be a happy man without ever wanting to own one myself. I've just installed a flash blocker for firefox and now I can?

I may have remarked before that every other maker of touchscreen tablets must have spit the dummy with all those news reports: "And what's more – you can read books on it!!!!!111!eleven!!!"

But it's as much about the iTunes bookshop as the device itself. Of course you can read books?

it was getting the books that was difficult.

And still is difficult in the NZ iTunes bookstore – there's only the free public domain titles.

I suspect it will end up like the iTunes movies store & be a complete clusterf$%k of arbitrary – this one thing is available but this?

I haven't installed apps yet as I need my credit card details which are at home :(

But that being said, the email (exchange and Mac.com) experience is great!

I am looking forward to leaving my laptop?

The future doesn't have a keyboard. I am very disappointed in you, future!

I think lack of keyboard on a machine is an indication about how we've failed to communicate properly with our machines. It's somewhat bizarre that we learn a special skill simply to convert our thoughts to letters?

It's somewhat bizarre that we learn a special skill simply to convert our thoughts to letters on a computer when we can all talk fine.

I'm not sure what you're saying there. Are you saying we should ditch keyboards and just speak into things? If I had a magic dictaphone?

Presumably it won't stay that way forever. Otherwise seriously, if the future of books is being sold exclusively via iTunes, we're screwed.

There's already a Kindle app for iPad/iPhone, and I gather it's pretty good. There's nothing to stop anyone else getting in on it either, so long as Apple?

Oddly, the iPad does support .avi files out of the box (so long as they're compatible with the Motion JPEG standard) — but the roadblock is iTunes for the Mac/PC, which won't recognise .avi or .mkv files.

The easiest workaround?

Presumably it won't stay that way forever. Otherwise seriously, if the future of books is being sold exclusively via iTunes, we're screwed.

I hope and expect that it won't just be iTunes and there's already been movement from others. For whatever reason, no one seemed that interested in supplying books?

http://passthesource.org.nz/2010/07/23/waiting-in-the-rain/

Whereas if the Kindle made an app for my netbook or tablet PC, Microsoft wouldn't clip any ticket, right?

Actually, I had to download the Kindle app to check — and I was wrong.

I figured it would simply use the iTunes transaction engine, but you actually need to have?

We likes 'em, me precious, that is all.

ETA:?

As an aside, the visually impaired person I know who bought one rates it better than other smartphones they have owned, using voiceover + touchscreen.

And what would that more efficient interface be? What's quicker than typing for writing?

Whatever it might be (and personally I've got no idea), it looks like speech recognition isn't going to be it. According to http://robertfortner.posterous.com/the-unrecognized-death-of-speech-recognition the accuracy of general speech recognition topped out at 80% in 2001 and?

1. You can't actually buy within the Kindle app — it sends you out to Amazon's not-so-optimised website.

2. You'll need an Amazon account for the website.

3. There are new books there. I bought The Girl Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest for $9.89 ($US, I?

I figured it would simply use the iTunes transaction engine, but you actually need to have an Amazon customer account. I'll let you know how that goes.

That sounds promising. I mean, if you happen to have bought a kindle with the same price structure of the real thing than?

And what would that more efficient interface be? What's quicker than typing for writing?

My point is, typing was a skill you learnt solely for the purpose of interfacing with your computer. It's a skill that we have to learn because of the limitations of the interface.

In the context?

That sounds promising. I mean, if you happen to have bought a kindle with the same price structure of the real thing than that's a pretty big leap in value for the machine right there.

Bearing in mind of course that in the US, the Kindle's connectivity is free. So?

My point is, typing was a skill you learnt solely for the purpose of interfacing with your computer. It's a skill that we have to learn because of the limitations of the interface.

No. Really, it isn't. It's nice we have GUIs which mean we no longer have to ask?

Bearing in mind of course that in the US, the Kindle's connectivity is free. So you're not paying for data, but you can only use that connection to buy books from Amazon.

But if you're at home connected through your wireless router when you buy a Kindle title you're on?

I think lack of keyboard on a machine is an indication about how we've failed to communicate properly with our machines. It's somewhat bizarre that we learn a special skill simply to convert our thoughts to letters on a computer when we can all talk fine

And you've never had?

No. Really, it isn't. It's nice we have GUIs which mean we no longer have to ask the computer to do things in words, but one of the main functions of a computer is writing.

But we're talking about ipads today. Which isn't primarily a instrument for writing. Which doesn't?

Keep that in mind when you say that we've failed in how we communicate with computers.

That was three paragraphs making my point – we've failed to build an effective interface with the computing systems that we use, hence the keyboard.

(Dragon for Windows requires a 1GHz processor and 512MB RAM, as a bare minimum, and I doubt the Mac version is much different). So no keyboard, no built-in USB ports and no hope in hell of running dictation software.

The iPad has a 1GHz processor, though only 256MB RAM. So?

Take away the keyboard, ignore voice, and what's?

My point is, typing was a skill you learnt solely for the purpose of interfacing with your computer. It's a skill that we have to learn because of the limitations of the interface.

It's worth remembering that plenty of people were typing before computers came along. Many authors preferred typewriters?

The iPad has a 1GHz processor, though only 256MB RAM. So it's not that far off. And Android phones of similar spec do voice recognition for search. The hardware is not the problem. The problem is that the accuracy of voice recognition is not high enough for general use.

Recognising?

Recognising a couple of words (and that poorly enough, from what I've seen, even with the artificial manner of speaking one adopts when talking to a telephone's internal directory) and searching a predefined list is a far, far cry from working with general dictation. Even at 100wpm, which is quite?

Kyle, the point is that the keyboard is "an effective interface with the computing systems we use". It's about as effective as we're likely to get within my lifetime, unless someone makes some seriously astounding breakthrough in neural network design and programming

The point there is that while the keyboard?

Handing a few words off to a remote server is still a huge step away from transcribing even 30 seconds'-worth of speech.

I agree, mostly. And I'd rather type than have to vocalise every thought. I'm not sure I could do it if I had to speak every damn word.?

Kyle, the point is that the keyboard is "an effective interface with the computing systems we use". It's about as effective as we're likely to get within my lifetime,

It's not really effective. It's just that we've become very good at using them. I spent a term in 3rd form?

PAS is a public interaction space, and yet the interaction uses the same method of interface as if we were to write novels to each other.

You obviously haven't paid too much attention to the length of some of the posts and comments that litter PAS :P

But we're talking about ipads today. Which isn't primarily a instrument for writing. Which doesn't come with a keyboard and this is an issue people have with the machine.

That's fine, but if somebody comes here and says "the iPad is the future", then I'm going to have to go?

PAS is a public interaction space, and yet the interaction uses the same method of interface as if we were to write novels to each other.

Something I'm pretty grateful for. Should typing only be used for books?

Yes and no.

God, that sounds like an absolute nightmare. And all of my posts on PAS would start with "I'm originally from Italy, and..."

But if you'd typed "I'm or" and it figured 'You've started a sentence with I'm, this is the second word and starts with or, so based on your?

Do you know if north and south are planning to make an app for android? Or, you know, a website?

I'll ask — we'll talk to one of their people on the show this week.

But a website is a cost centre, both to build and maintain, and it's hard?

But if you'd typed "I'm or" and it figured 'You've started a sentence with I'm, this is the second word and starts with or, so based on your previous writing, I'll suggest originally as the word you would like me to autocomplete by pressing tab

Really, I've seen various autocomplete?

The Apple case that folds out into a wee angled stand would have been useful, but no one had them for sale last week.

I'll ask — we'll talk to one of their people on the show this week.

But a website is a cost centre, both to build and maintain, and it's
hard for a monthly magazine to maintain the kind of traffic that would make advertising a viable source of income.
The?

FWIW, if you need a keyboard for your iPad, the Apple keyboard dock costs $119 and works very well.

The Apple case that folds out into a wee angled stand would have been useful, but no one had them for sale last week.

So once you get those extra bits?

Handing a few words off to a remote server is still a huge step away from transcribing even 30 seconds'-worth of speech.

The iPad is fully capable of transferring audio of sufficient quality of speech recognition in real time. Skype does it bidirectionally, for example. So there is no technical?

I gave up with my vodafone problem. I emailed the chief executive, saying that they were once slick and cool and fast and now they were as effective as the manager of the flight of the conchords. He cc'ed me into a email send to a manager who?

Its available for iPhone & iPad already in North America. I think they work around it on the lower spec devices by recording & sending the audio to servers for dictation & then send the text back to the device. Im not certain that's true but it seems?

He said basically it is an iPhone with a bigger screen.

Is this accurate or a heresy?

He said basically it is an iPhone with a bigger screen.

Is this accurate or a heresy?

It's basically a bigger iPod Touch. But if that's meant to be disparaging it's missing the point. The bigger screen makes huge difference to a lot of things. It's the same difference as?

In this mode, it's essentially a netbook, but with a portrait screen orientation — which it seems to me is not so good for tasks, but much better for both reading and writing.

Still I write a lot of posts here on my iPhone, so I'm thinking I'll manage. Won't be quite as fast, but I'm not writing?

To protect the reputation of Andre, it is me rather than him than confuses an iPhone and an iPod

P.
who not only takes Danielle seriously but also has little idea about new-technology

** I understood everything my first cellphone (brick, 1991?

The Apple mini Blue tooth wireless Keyboard works too apparently. Have the key board for when I connect Macbook to TV, but no iPad yet.

I've heard that some USB keyboards work through the camera connection kit. Didn't work with either of the keyboards I tried. What did work was?

Personally, I'm impatient for a decent virtual DJ app to turn up for iPad. The ones released so far all have too many shortcomings for me.

Until iPad class devices get substantially more CPU (not to mention decent USB host support to talk to the audio interface) I wouldn't hold?

I've heard that some USB keyboards work through the camera connection kit. Didn't work with either of the keyboards I tried.

Scratch that – turns out you just have ignore the thing when it says the "device is not supported". Keyboards with built in hubs won't work if you plug?

Once again, Apples arrogant pricing policies have put me off – $200 to upgrade from?

Ben Austin, please tell me, are you pleased with your HTC Desire? And also: how do you think it compares to the HTC Legend?

(My phone celebrated Russell's birthday by dying.)

has the die been cast for applications to be in the single digit pricerange?

I think the peer pressure ceiling for stand alone apps is low tens of dollars, on the other hand if you can make the app a gateway to subscription or downloadable content, the sky seems to?

In this mode, it's essentially a netbook, but with a portrait screen orientation — which it seems to me is not so good for tasks, but much better for both reading and writing.

How fast is it, to do those laptoppy tasks? Because my eee with its 1.6 Ghz and?

as Ben would no doubt point out.

It's enough that the idea was transmitted to you, clearly without loss.

But basic vocal commands are a different matter. I quite like the idea of saying "iPad: Shut up!" if the occasion demands.

Heh, I remember way, waaay back when such things?

Talking of Android-based devices...
Ben Austin, please tell me, are you pleased with your HTC Desire? And also: how do you think it compares to the HTC Legend?

FWIW, I like my htc desire. It works well and does lots of cool stuff. I've never owned an iphone so I?

How fast is it, to do those laptoppy tasks? Because my eee with its 1.6 Ghz and 1GB of RAM frankly is pretty damn slow.

Trying hard not to sound like salesman, but it's fast.

Also, I just sent a tweet from my iPhone, typed with the keyboard dock. Worked?

Weird I'm not allowed to download the north and south app from the iPad app store (although it can be seen) but from my Australian iTunes account I got it from iTunes on my MacBook

I had a similar experience tonight with an eye-candy style app — I was "transferred?

I was "transferred to the NZ iTunes store", where I was supposed to be anyway, but the app I was trying to get wasn't there.

Oh you kids, back in my day there wasn't even an NZ iTunes store on the iPad. I had to set up an American account?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVUs3Lfn28Y

my htc desire
...
I got mine from clove.co.uk for about $750ish

PriceSpy has the cheapest Desire from an NZ-based company at $772.50. That's a place that does free shipping, too. Yesterday (and the last 10-or-so days) the cheapest was $850. Considering that two months ago they were much nearer?

FWIW, if you need a keyboard for your iPad, the Apple keyboard dock costs $119 and works very well.

*choke*
For a keyboard! I'm sure it's a very sexy keyboard (I do like Apple hardware. Shame about the company), but it's still just a bloody keyboard that props up your?

*choke*
For a keyboard!

Ah, but it's a wireless keyboard. And as a bonus it comes with no numeric keypad.

Let me clear up one thing; the QWERTY layout was not designed to slow typists down; it was designed to prevent the keys from jamming, thus allowing typists to work even faster.

Well. It was designed to spread out the hammers so that they were less likely to jam. And?

I think the lust will remain unrequited.

aah, gadget lust. i love it. i figured out how to get offline GPS topo maps on my phone last weekend, and then show my running route into a 3D google earth fly-through. You know, cos that's really useful.

Ah, but it's a wireless keyboard

OK, that's actually not quite so bad. Still a little steep, especially when one can get wireless keyboards for rather less than $100 (and they come with a keypad), but not quite as ridiculous.

I've had my HTC Desire for about 10 days, so it is early days yet. One observation though is that you will need to have a very generous data plan or wifi in the places you expect to use the phone (this would go for any good smartphone though).?

iPad Owners Are ?Selfish Elites.? Critics Are ?Independent Geeks.? Discuss

From the link:

[iPad owners] are six times more likely to be ?wealthy, well-educated, power-hungry, over-achieving, sophisticated, unkind and non-altruistic 30-50 year olds,? MyType?s Tim Koelkebeck told Wired.com.
...
the study found that ?bashing the iPad is, in a way,?

wealthy, well-educated, power-hungry, over-achieving, sophisticated, unkind and non-altruistic 30-50 year olds

7/8 and I still don't have one!

OK, that's actually not quite so bad. Still a little steep, especially when one can get wireless keyboards for rather less than $100 (and they come with a keypad), but not quite as ridiculous.

Nah, not wireless. It's a powered dock and keyboard. You'll never win an argument that pits?

It's at the splendid level of insight of the Stuff poll last week in which not desiring to purchase an iPad was simply not an option.

Except that it's based on psychological analysis of a statistically-significant sample, not an online poll. So whether or not the results actually mean anything,?

you cannot dismiss it as being on the same level as a Stuff poll.

And yet, watch me do just that. It's asinine. It would still be asinine if they had interviewed everyone in the whole world.

(It's a consumer research firm that conducted this "psychological study". And you can?

Read the article. It's actually rather amusing, especially in light of it being profiles based on interviewing 20,000 people.

Blog with more detail: http://mytype.com/blog/?p=109
Full report: http://www.scribd.com/doc/34438276/iPad-Opinion-Profile-by-MyType-July-2010

It's a consumer research firm that conducted this "psychological study". And you can tell by the fact that only a consumer research firm would have "selfish elite" and "independent geek" as psychological profiles. It's a load of rubbish.

I just read the methodology. They inserted the questions into the "psychological?

Being a socially conscious consumer is vitally important. But shininess trumps anything: see also flatscreen TVs made from toxic substances in sweatshops, big budget sci-fi made by ACTAs core backers, games consoles from whale eating monopolists, &c

How did you purchase a Kindle book from Amazon? When I tried, it said my NZ address and/or VISA was invalid

Via the Kindle app on my new iPad. The usual irksome rules did not seem to apply if the destination was an iPad.

I told you it was special.

I just read the methodology. They inserted the questions into the "psychological surveys" they do on Facebook that people choose to take to get their personality type. So the respondents were self-selected.

Yes, there's definitely self-selection, but if the profiling was as part of a general quiz then the bias?

see also flatscreen TVs made from toxic substances

Gotta say, you can't beat the lead content of the humble, old-school, non-flat-screen CRT. Nothing like the need to protect viewers from a ray-tracing photon emitter to bump up the heavy-metal content.

I think lack of keyboard on a machine is an indication about how we've failed to communicate properly with our machines. It's somewhat bizarre that we learn a special skill simply to convert our thoughts to letters on a computer when we can all talk fine

I'm very late to?

I have a rather large, not very good, 8 year old CRT which I hope will last at least another 10 years. For me to buy a new one before that would have to be?

I read somewhere that the average life of an iPhone is a little shy of two years. Not because the machines malfunction, but rather because the people upgrade

I wonder how much of that is due to the fixed term contracts? Mine is coming off contact in a couple of?

Sure, in the olden days (circa 1980), your 19" Ferguson had toxic stuff in it

And in the "olden days" of last week a brand-new CRT is still loaded up with lead and other lovely things that you really don't want in a landfill. They're still heavy for a reason.?

CRTs will never fit into that category, because there's nothing better than lead at being a radiation shield.

Gold? Imagine the wank value too.

Gold? Imagine the wank value too.

The wank value would be very high indeed since a big CRT can contain 2kg of lead – that much gold is something like $120,000 if my maths is right. The lead also helps the glass quality. No idea if gold would work as?

"They're so much cheaper these days!"

I waited 5 years to replace the Sony Trinitron TV with a plasma flat screen. By that time it was down to $1400. Less than half the price of the Sony. Originally I said I'd wait for iPad 4.0 to come out, with iChat?

However, making electronics uses a bunch of nasty process chemicals which are fine if contained and controlled (like?

This million dollar laptop can be ordered in gold.
And this wooden laptop comes with either ivory or 24 carat gold keyboard. The ivory sure seems suss.
Or the pièce de résistance Gold Plated Voodoo PC. Tacky is right.
I'd buy a gold plated iPad though. Cause that's different ;-)

?

Western companies mostly manufacture in dodgy jurisdictions?

for example, not shopping at JB Hi Fi (even if it is more convenient) and going somewhere where the workers are treated better

By all means, although I'm not sure that JB Hi Fi going under is going to do much good to those underpaid workers. Still, I no longer?

To some extent, it's because Greenpeace focused so much of its green-tech campaigning on Apple — a very savvy way to get media?

but Jobs has touted sustainability as a priority to Apple shareholders, which seems notable.

Jobs knows it's the business savvy thing to do. I don't know if the iPad bill of materials has been analysed yet, but Apple used to make an absolute killing on the iPhone – its profit?

inverted snobbery

Tell me about it! I've been suffering from if for years. I can't even bring myself to upgrade my 21-inch CRT TV. I keep meaning to, and I guess I could afford it, but everytime I find myself in the shop I think " C'mon, spending money on?

Jobs knows it's the business savvy thing to do. I don't know if the iPad bill of materials has been analysed yet, but Apple used to make an absolute killing on the iPhone – its profit margins were sky high compared to the costs of the materials.

Yes, Apple makes?

We don't tend to have the same discussion about those companies and their products, even if we should.

That's crazy talk. Of course we do – to extrapolate the relevant link from my blog post linked to above, the case of Microsoft.

But that Apple should have got hammered when?

And that 20% figure is grotesque. Again, it's not that iPads etc. are made ethically. They're just made 20% less unethically, in the same factories!

But ... but .. but you said Apple got "caught dealing with the kind of companies that it shouldn't have dealt with". I just wanted?

I just wanted to point out that it uses the same major manufacturers as everyone else does. It wasn't "caught" doing anything.

It was caught using the same slave labour as everybody else whilst making much more money per unit sold than anybody else. Given that the official excuse for?

Again, to me they're the same company.

(And it's a company I've bought a lot of products from, I should be clear about that.)

It was caught using the same slave labour as everybody else whilst making much more money per unit sold than anybody else.

Well, again, no. The gross margin on all smartphones is 40-50%, and although Apple's is possibly the highest, it's absolutely in the same range as the Nokia, etc,?

They also speculated that Apple could afford to slash prices in a matter of months, which Apple did – and they early adopters got pissed, as I recall.

And got a rebate. Apple certainly over-reached on that initial pricing, and they haven't made that mistake with the iPad.

iSupply table for the iPad. Those margins, not too shabby eh?

iSupply table for the iPad. Those margins, not too shabby eh?

Yes, but it's worth bearing mind that's the cost of parts and putting them together, not software, royalties, freight, marketing, retail margins and the wages and salaries of the people who developed it all.

iSupply table for the iPad. Those margins, not too shabby eh?

Surely the price reflects the market demand? If it didn't they wouldn't be selling so many of the damn things. Better marketing means better returns. What's the problem with that?

If Apple is forced to limit the margins on?

What's the going price for innovation, design and engineering?

Whatever that new iMac costs :-)

But yeah, I don't mind admitting to being a fanboy. I've been using Apple products since 1986, and paying a premium through the years when Apple was making massive losses (and making some seriously shitty?

Whatever that new iMac costs :-)

Exactly, and I'm prepared to pay for that innovation, design and engineering. I would not really describe myself as a fanboi, certainly not since 1986. I would never have bothered with the pre-OS X Macs. Now, I use their iMac and Macbook Pro. Oh,?

What's the going price for innovation, design and engineering?

Indeed. I probably won't get an iPad for a long time and don't own any other Apple products but I don't consider that them choosing their own margins to be especially exploitative. It's what businesses do, they choose a margin to?

Noel Leeming's 30 months interest-free does make an iMac upgrade more attractive — especially given that my current iMac is the tool that facilitates all my income?

I'm increasingly convinced that buying an iPad would actually be saving money as it would further delay the upgrade of the iMac ;-)

And as?

A question about the iPad, does it have a floppy drive?

No, but you can connect one to the parallel port ;-)

When everyone else was still shoving components in beige boxes, that was quite a step.

And from the machines we've been building and selling at work, black & silver are the new beige.

Using an iPad to replace the tape cassette drive for an Apple iie.

I feel bound now to point out that I hadn't personally bought a new Apple product for two years before last week's purchase.

You sound like an alchoholic. ;)

Using an iPad to replace the tape cassette drive for an Apple iie.

Damn your eyes! Now I want an old Apple IIe and an iPad.

Awesomeness.

Using an iPad to replace the tape cassette drive for an Apple iie.

Now they just need to do the same for a C64.

Using an iPad to replace the tape cassette drive for an Apple iie.

Damn your eyes! Now I want an old Apple IIe
and an iPad.

Russell, that was just, ...mean...

It?s an obvious solution in retrospect, but there is something very unreal and amazing?

Expandable from 64 KB up to 1 MB RAM or more!!

And people think Apple products are expensive now. I hate to think how many top-line Mac Pro's one could buy for the inflation-adjusted cost of that memory upgrade.

It was caught using the same slave labour as everybody else whilst making much more money per unit sold than anybody else.

Giovanni, I don't think you ever backed up your claim that Apple made more per device than others in the same markets. I tried to come up with?

Actually this may be more than just Apple trying to disguise its profit margins — there may be a legitimate question of the iSuppli estimates' validity. According to Techcrunch, "iSuppli is well-known for low-balling these numbers in an effort to convince manufacturers to contact them?

forced to limit the margins on its products

What would be so bad about that?

Actually this may be more than just Apple trying to disguise its profit margins — there may be a legitimate question of the iSuppli estimates' validity.

They were bang on on the extent that Apple could bring the?

What would be so bad about that?

the rift between greed and green
widens with no respite
fissure, fissure

What would be so bad about that?

Apple shareholders wouldn't be impressed. Steve won't even pay them a dividend (he just hoards cash) and there's all this hippy green stuff happening. The guy's a goddamn vegan with his own organic garden!

It's worth noting that in 2005, Apple's gross margin?

What would be so bad about that?

It would make being innovative less attractive.

I also don't think margins are so easily calculated as people think. When you invest enormous amounts of capital and time into designing a new device, it's pretty hard to work out the true opportunity cost?

Each extra copy, even packaged, costs virtually nothing. But Windows cost a lot to make. So, what Ben said.

It also seems germane to point out that Microsoft's margin on the sale of a copy of Windows is somewhere north of 95%.

Oh, I have no horse in this race, Russell. I think they're *all* greedy, exploitative assholes. :)

Oh, I have no horse in this race, Russell. I think they're *all* greedy, exploitative assholes. :)

But ... but ... it's the same reason we wouldn't expect authors to sell their books for the cost of printing (or digital delivery). A lot of work went into that book.

That's nothing. I've heard that Cupertino boffins are working on a new element, Jobsium, that will be exclusively used in new Apple product. A half-life in the nanoseconds is causing some issues, but the legal team is confident they can sort it with a warranty?

But ... but ... it's the same reason we wouldn't expect authors to sell their books for the cost of printing (or digital delivery). A lot of work went into that book.

Whoah nelly. No. Seriously. Just no. It ought to be possible to manufacture things without brutally exploiting the?

I didn't say there should be *no* margins. I just said 'why would it be so terrible to have margins limited?'

By the Ministry for Setting Everyone's Margins?

By the Ministry for Setting Everyone's Margins?

Why not? Why is that such a weird thing to ponder? (I mean, I think it's kind of a weird prospect, too, but I don't know *why* I think it's weird. So I've probably been brainwashed by our evil capitalist overlords into thinking?

By the Ministry for Setting Everyone's Margins?

More or less. There are laws that say we can't treat the workers of our countries the way we treat workers in the developing world. It would take a series of very simple acts of Parliament, Congress etc. to extend those protections across?

There's no natural, objective, necessary reason why an iPad (or anything else, just using the example at hand) should cost 350 dollars in materials, and 10 dollars in labour.

That's a stronger point, but be wary of generalisations — I should've pulled you up on the use of the word?

Why not? Why is that such a weird thing to ponder?

Yes. I think it would be a utter disaster. But, then, I did live through Muldoon's wage and price freezes and Labour's Maximum Retail Price scheme.

Simon Grigg, who lives in Asia, is better value on this than me, but not allowing developing countries to use their low costs of living as a competitive advantage doesn't actually help those countries.

My country went through it in my lifetime – by which I mean a competitive advantage?