Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Is that it?

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  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Kyle Matthews,

    What's disappointing is that it's just age discrimination - attacking young people who can't vote, and who are a popular electoral target, and 2, that I doubt there's any evidence elsewhere that this strategy actually helps.

    Can Graeme enlighten us on whether there's a case to take to the Human Rights Commission?

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5446 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Latest from govt on minimum youth wage.

    However, Key said today the Government needed to look at all the factors that might work.

    "We will consider it," he told TV3's Firstline programme. "I wouldn't say we would necessarily carry it out."

    There was already a training wage which covered the first 200 hours, Key said. While a youth minimum was a factor, the Government didn't want the public to believe it was the only factor.

    "Because I think if it's the only factor someone's getting employed on, we're probably getting off on the wrong track here."

    The Government would have a clear position on youth minimum wage before the election, Key said.

    "New Zealanders will get a chance to have a look at it. I think as part of an overall package it might be considered but I wouldn't want to say it's front and centre stage, I really don't think it is."

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • DexterX,

    Hitting the nail on the head.

    A lack of jobs appears to be a far more significant influence on spiking youth unemployment than a sudden unwillingness to work amongst young New Zealanders. And it's hard to see what in this policy really addresses that.

    The policy places a focus on a very small group of people who are an outcome of a poorly managed economy and there is no focus on the fact that the economy is in decline and being managed poorly.

    It is likely, as people have suggested, to be the thin end of a wedge - it will be easy to show the positive outcomes with a small group of dispossessed youth and then run a parallel system out to all benefs other than those on National Super.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1224 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby, in reply to Russell Brown,

    It's like these guys are all so fixated on calling the damn race that they can't bring themselves to ask how that boot camps thing from 2008 worked out.

    i think you mean, "their calling is fixing the damn race".

    serious question: how in the hell will the pocket money solution work around things like unexpectedly large power bills (e.g. snowpocalypse), or shared utilities arrangements (where some are working and some not). most utilities are not fixed costs.

    further, how will they handle the urban mobility of youth? these people change accommodation constantly. you'll need an army of back-office workers to support the paperwork.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to Che Tibby,

    further, how will they handle the urban mobility of youth? these people change accommodation constantly. you’ll need an army of back-office workers to support the paperwork.

    Apparently there're plenty of people in need of jobs. Wouldn't the dole queue be a good place to start looking for that army of back-office workers?

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    What the Dickens...

    ...linked with private contractors who will receive cash bonuses if they are able to place their wards in work or training.

    Enter Fagin...
    ...can the workhouse be far behind?


    so that's where adults come from...

    And how? By getting everybody working together creating jobs for the kids. Well, I’m sure there was a lot of quite complex work involved in getting this all together, but it seems like such a basic, common sense solution, the flip side to the devil making work for idle hands. Give the kids something to do, something in which they can take pride and through which they can make a genuine, valuable contribution and build up skills and experience for the future, and maybe, just maybe, they might behave themselves.

    Chchch used to have a Youth Council, which turned out civic minded like young folk like Yani Johansen, unfortunately they canned that and moved into a series of anti-youth endeavours like Classical Music in City Mall to push young people away from the area (that'll help the much needed diversity and vibrancy the council witters on about) and other acts of jugendschaden...
    beggars belief really - all people need to be included in all community endeavours...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    And let's not forget the Depression-esque queues of job applicants lining up outside newly-opened supermarkets.

    Another thing to remember is that a generation or 2 ago, the unskilled could walk into a factory or a meatworks. Nowadays, a machine or a computer can do the jobs of several men more productively.

    But what of those whose jobs are now surplus to requirements? Somehow Luddism isn't the answer, and it's unrealistic to expect them to be able to code Java or manage a bank, as Minister Bennett would have us believe. And we're far from the only country to grapple with post-industrial disease.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5446 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    …can the workhouse be far behind?

    I'm sure there would be efficiencies of scale if the rent-managers clients accommodations were optimized into the rent-managers facilities.

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __,

    Crikey, Paula Bennett can’t even get her facts and figures straight.

    unemployment for 18 – 24 year olds is actually 0.6 percent higher today than it was in 2009, although it’s down on last year.

    Sounds like a totally made-up crisis either way….

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3895 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Lilith __,

    Picking a convenient point to compare with is a common tactic. But our youth employment rates are a real crisis with enduring consequences and we're one of the worst nations.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Sacha,

    But our youth employment rates are a real crisis with enduring consequences and we’re one of the worst nations.

    I wonder if we’re so bad relative to other developed nations because our job market has been flexible (read: completely tilted towards the employers) for longer, and so there aren’t older generations whose work is more secure but also dearer than the newcomers’. And so you might as well hire somebody with experience, since you can fire them at will anyway and treat them in all ways like most other nations treat school leavers and young apprentices.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Sacha,

    Picking a convenient point to compare with is a common tactic. But our youth employment rates are a real crisis with enduring consequences and we’re one of the worst nations.

    The scandal isn’t just the youth unemployment rate itself. It’s also about what passes for leadership resorting to attacking the symptom, in order to seem busy.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5446 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    . . . private contractors who will receive cash bonuses if they are able to place their wards in work or training.

    Was something like that tried in the Shipley era? I wasn't here, but I'd heard there was.

    If simply putting people into training is enough to earn a bonus then the scheme sounds like it's as open to rorting as the privatised Australian Job Network Provider farce that flourished under John Howard, particularly when Tony Abbott was Minister for Employment Services.

    One of Kevin Rudd's greatest achievements was to largely put an end to the punitive farce of churning the unemployed through pointless training schemes that benefited only the providers, many of whom were Liberal Party donors. There can be few things more demoralising for someone on a survival budget than to have to travel across town on peak-hour public transport fares on the false promise of being "evaluated" for training, only to spend an hour with some privatised bubblehead who'd get all chatty about their divorce, before sending the victim on their way with a voucher for yet another CV seminar. It happened all the time.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    the privatised Australian Job Network Provider farce that flourished under John Howard

    In the comments on Jordan Carter's piece on feeling let down on this by govt, it's pointed out that the foodstamp card is an Aussie idea too.

    In a five-year trial to start next July, the government will quarantine between 50 and 70 per cent of welfare payments made to those deemed ''financially vulnerable'' or who have been referred by child protection authorities in five local government areas across Australia, including Bankstown in Sydney.
    ...

    n the Northern Territory, where income management was introduced by the Howard government in 2007 and mainly affected Aboriginal communities, many shops have forced cardholders to use separate queues as they slow down other shoppers, according to Paddy Gibson, a researcher from the University of Technology, Sydney.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    in order to seem busy

    More to whistle votes from those who hate poor young people, as others have suggested.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Sacha,

    . . . the foodstamp card is an Aussie idea too.

    According to Job Services Australia's site, part of its role is "to provide immediate services for workers made redundant in the recent global recession through no fault of their own." While the conciliatory tone is a world away from the Howard era, when Tony Abbott famously announced his intention to "take a stick to" the long-term unemployed, there's been a determined rightward drift under Gillard.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    And so you might as well hire somebody with experience, since you can fire them at will anyway and treat them in all ways like most other nations treat school leavers and young apprentices.

    I've noticed a heck of a lot more elderly people working in fast food recently. From an employer or customer point of view, it's great. They work much better. From a societal point of view, it's just a bad sign. Why are they even needing to work, and what's left for kids? When even working in Subway requires a lifetime of experience....

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby, in reply to BenWilson,

    From a societal point of view, it's just a bad sign.

    god i couldn't disagree more. kids can go get education or sponge off their parents. who here hasn't done that? but more older people working means less welfare dependency among that demographic.

    if people can still work, they damn well should. the old guys and gals in the local hardware supply places are freaking GOLD. replace them with kids and it would be a nightmare.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    I was working for a large NZ firm a while back that had so many obsese old people there that they'd run out of disabled parking spaces. Which is something you can't actually expand, because they need to be near the door. They might soon have to run golf carts around the car park

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Che Tibby,

    but more older people working means less welfare dependency among that demographic.

    The fact that old people are dependent on welfare, and that it's not enough, is the bad sign. I don't begrudge any individual person who wants to work in Subway because they can't pay their bills otherwise, but the fact that the people seem to be in their 60s tells me a lot about the extraordinarily mismanaged economic situation this country has found itself in.

    I don't deny they are good workers. For starters, they don't have any other options - no parents to fall back on, no expectations of long life ahead, good looks leading to advantageous marriage or senior work placement, no time to learn valuable skills. Also, a lifetime of knowing when to shut up and put their heads down. It's just great for employers and customers, as I said.

    For the workers, it's most likely a tedious drudgery that most people would hope to avoid in the final years of their lives, although there is no doubt that a lifetime of work can be so habit forming that you can't really feel happy unless you're doing it, however much it undervalues your real worth to society.

    I don't object to old people working, at all. In fact, I think they're very often the most valuable workers. What disturbs me is seeing them working at the very bottom of the job heap. The old guy working in the hardware store is not in this position. He's a highly skilled employee, quite probably draws a lot of customers with his knowledge and attitude alone. He should be, in a fair society, paid well for that. If the store has become a simple warehouse, as so many hardware stores have, then he has reason to fear for his job, of course, and will work for the same as kids, if put against the wall of destitution. I just don't think noticing a lot more people in NZ in that position fills me with happiness.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to BenWilson,

    In fact, I think they're very often the most valuable workers. What disturbs me is seeing them working at the very bottom of the job heap.

    We undervalue wisdom.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to BenWilson,

    good looks leading to advantageous marriage or senior work placement

    and men too

    over his career, a good-looking man will make some $250,000 more than his least-attractive counterpart, according to economist Daniel Hamermesh

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Sacha,

    and men too

    No doubts at all there. Being well-groomed is a bare minimum. Being attractive is the icing on the cake. I'd say it's been that way since the dawn of time. The more hierarchical the organization, the more that seems to be the case. Senior management are often little more than courtiers.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    . . . private contractors who will receive cash bonuses if they are able to place their wards in work or training.

    Again, nice "private contract" businesspeople are treated as good rational economic actors who perfectly respond to pricing signals and economic incentive, but the people they're being contracted are treated as the exact opposite.

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Sacha,

    We undervalue wisdom.

    I often think we actually despise it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

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