Hard News by Russell Brown

Read Post

Hard News: Is that it?

327 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 5 14 Newer→ Last

  • James Butler, in reply to Andre Alessi,

    I don't really understand how National can think most people would choose to live on a benefit if they had other, genuine options

    Because National's core voters are, almost by definition, people who have always had other, genuine options - "Well I never went on the benefit when I was younger, I went out and got job X / started business Y / invested my trust fund in Z". They have no meaningful exposure to a world where those options don't exist (which they themselves have created), and thus don't know that it exists.

    I mean, like you say, what reasonable person would be on a benefit when they have alternatives? We can reason from this two ways, given that there are people on benefits: either there are no alternatives, or we must be dealing with unreasonable people (note how the rational actor hypothesis is discarded in this situation!) who need to be taught the error of their ways.

    (An hour late with this, because of dodgy internet. Anyone else been having trouble with Vodafone Red in/around Mt Eden in the last week or two?)

    Auckland • Since Jan 2009 • 790 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant,

    So, I'm looking for some ancient Greek. What's the paedo- equivalent of misogyny? Because I think we're well beyond fear here, and into hate.

    (Next stop, anger. And then the Dark Side)

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1591 posts Report Reply

  • Ben McNicoll, in reply to James Butler,

    Something major up with Vodafone right now.... no international connectivity it seems. And probably glitchy everything else as they scramble to fix it.

    Thank dog for wireless access point through android on 2degrees.

    Grey Lynn • Since May 2007 • 108 posts Report Reply

  • Pete Sime, in reply to Idiot Savant,

    So, I’m looking for some ancient Greek. What’s the paedo- equivalent of misogyny? Because I think we’re well beyond fear here, and into hate.

    (Next stop, anger. And then the Dark Side)

    I’d go with ephebiphobia

    Dunedin • Since Apr 2008 • 141 posts Report Reply

  • James Butler, in reply to Ben McNicoll,

    Ah, that explains no Twitter then - so I'll be discussing the trivialities of my life on PAS for the time being, cheers.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2009 • 790 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant, in reply to Pete Sime,

    I’d go with ephebiphobia

    Again, that's fear rather than hate.

    Misepheby? Misopaedy? Surely there's a classics major out there who can help!

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1591 posts Report Reply

  • Phil Lyth, in reply to James Butler,

    So Vodafone classifies NZHerald as international as well? Its an interesting mix of sites I am having trouble reaching

    Wellington • Since Apr 2009 • 443 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward, in reply to Phil Lyth,

    So Vodafone classifies NZHerald as international as well? Its an interesting mix of sites I am having trouble reaching

    I suspect you're a 17y/o beneficiary and Paula Bennett is deciding on appropriate internet usage for you...

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1712 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh,

    I was quite amused to see TV3 news the other night (night before last, I think... their "latest 6pm bulletin" goes online quite a few hours after 6pm NZ time, so by the time I get to see it, it's usually already yesterday's bulletin) follow up their report on National's new youth unemployment policy with a report on how Otorohanga has reduced youth unemployment to zero, cut back drastically on youth crime and other social problems related to youth unemployment, all while keeping their youth in Otorohanga instead of disappearing off to the Big Smoke. And how? By getting everybody working together creating jobs for the kids. Well, I'm sure there was a lot of quite complex work involved in getting this all together, but it seems like such a basic, common sense solution, the flip side to the devil making work for idle hands. Give the kids something to do, something in which they can take pride and through which they can make a genuine, valuable contribution and build up skills and experience for the future, and maybe, just maybe, they might behave themselves.

    I like DeepRed's insertion of the word 'paternalism.' Nanny's are usually kind and cuddly, but the impression I got of this policy was quite definitely one of a stern "Father knows best" nature.

    Beijing • Since Jan 2007 • 1718 posts Report Reply

  • Rob S,

    How do you keep private providers in line?
    With the Govt shouldering responsibility for these services ultimate responsibility should reside with the relevant minister, but with a commercial operator how long will it be before embarassing mistakes get thrown into the good old commercial sensitivity hideyhole?
    I was waiting for beneficiary bashing to make an appearance as I can't recall an election when it hasn't been put into play. 100% dog whistle.
    Next card - tough on crime? Or has that already been played?
    What initiatives has the Key administration done that are for the long term benefit of the whole Country?
    Tax cuts for the wealthy don't count.

    Since Apr 2010 • 64 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Gareth Ward,

    You suggested a subsidy for work, which is not the same as a minimum wage at all. It could mean youths getting paid a minimum wage, but it means that the employer is really paying less than a minimum wage and the government foots the bill for the difference. That makes the business the actual beneficiary, the youth is still on minimum wage. I can't see what's good about it, really - give the benefit to the kids instead, and let them find a job with someone who actually knows how to manage a business that can cover its own costs.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8011 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward, in reply to BenWilson,

    It could mean youths getting paid a minimum wage, but it means that the employer is really paying less than a minimum wage and the government foots the bill for the difference.

    Yes but you realize I'm referring to a youth minimum wage yeah? The arguments for tend to be "youths will only be hired if they are cheaper for employers" while the against is "youths shouldn't be paid less".

    IF (and I accept the big if) we accept some need for employment of new-to-the-workforce youth to be incentivised, can't the Govt take that on as a job subsidy rather than simply allowing youth to get paid below adult minimum wage?

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1712 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    + fucking 1.
    Bet they wont be allowed to buy Adidas clothing next.

    Burberry was for a while associated with the British chav subculture. And Lonsdale has been popular among the skinhead racist crowd. Both companies have attempted to disown any association.

    If everything goes to pot closer to home, what will the 'unlawful combatants' be wearing? Olive drab fatigues and Castro caps?

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 3894 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    all while keeping their youth in Otorohanga instead of disappearing off to the Big Smoke. And how? By getting everybody working together creating jobs for the kids. Well, I'm sure there was a lot of quite complex work involved in getting this all together

    Otorohanga's Dale Evans is also current chair of the nationwide Mayors' Taskforce for Jobs.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15711 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Rob S,

    How do you keep private providers in line?

    Accountability mechanisms tend to be undercooked.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15711 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby, in reply to Rob S,

    How do you keep private providers in line?

    the TECs publication of performance stats has, by all accounts, had a impact on the private providers.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2018 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Heather Gaye,

    Agree totally. The young are the lab rats; the policy makes no sense otherwise. With such a small catchment it should be easy to "prove" such a system works in percentage terms so it can be rolled out to the rest of beneficiaries.

    Let's hope some of those targeted are National Party offspring gone to seed who are forced to live at home with their parents.

    BTW, ever looked at a pie graph of spending on "benefits": two-thirds of the total is for those layabout National Superannuitants. Just think what could be saved there...

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2442 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Gareth Ward,

    Yes but you realize I'm referring to a youth minimum wage yeah?

    No, I missed that, sorry. I think I get your argument now. That the youth minimum wage should be topped up to the adult minimum wage? That's not such a bad idea.

    -ve seems to be that adults who are on or near the minimum wage would still be outcompeted by kids who can be paid less by the employer. I guess it's good to get work for kids, but I'm not so sure if it's good to do that by taking it away from minimum wage adults. But, as you say, that's how it is now anyway, except that kids get less money.

    +ve would be more money for kids. Except, perhaps, the kids of the adults who lost their jobs.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8011 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant, in reply to Hebe,

    Let's hope some of those targeted are National Party offspring gone to seed who are forced to live at home with their parents.

    By definition they won't be. The Independent Youth Benefit is available to 16 and 17 year olds who cannot live with their parents - which means either orphans or abuse victims.

    Scarily, one effect of the policy may well be to force the latter back into the clutches of their abusers. But that would probably be regarded as a success, as it would reduce benefit numbers.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1591 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    John Key's response to that example on"'The Nation" yesterday was that "Otorohanga was small" . No, "what a great success that we could learn from." and yet, what a fine example that was.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 5690 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    So just some idle thinking

    With an card system in place that distinguish between "food" and "tobacco/alcohol" it should be fairly easy to program the same system to exclude specific brands.

    hmmm I wonder how much you have to contribute to National's campaign to have your brand included and the competitor's brand excluded.

    Or would that be too crass even for this crew?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3108 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Idiot Savant,

    Misepheby? Misopaedy?

    Misopaedia?

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 5690 posts Report Reply

  • Grant McDougall,

    Not strictly on topic, but I see that the Nats have chosen the Feelers' 'Stand Up And Be Counted' as their election campaign theme song.
    Which is no big surprise given they're both bland, unimaginative, yet inexplicably popular.

    Dunedin • Since Dec 2006 • 548 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Idiot Savant,

    Scarily, one effect of the policy may well be to force the latter back into the clutches of their abusers. But that would probably be regarded as a success, as it would reduce benefit numbers.

    Yup, especially if, like one such beneficiary I recall from my youth, the parents insist she drop out of school and marry, like all good Jehovah's Witness girls should, at the minimum possible age. She'd be avoiding an expensive education on the state's purse.

    Thanks to welfare, she's now a brilliant doctor, and has paid for her education and welfare many times over. More importantly, she escaped the cult and was able to choose what to do with her life.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8011 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Fixating on the wage is similar to the nonsense about headline tax rates. Sound employers and good leaders - both of which this nation needs more of - consider more than bare input costs, just as productive employees are motivated beyond dollars.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15711 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 5 14 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

Please sign in using your Public Address credentials…

Login

You may also create an account or retrieve your password.