Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Judge Harvey: My part in his downfall

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  • Russell Brown, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    Russell said “he is us”. Judge Harvey said “he is [the] US”.

    Judge Harvey said "he is us"

    I tweeted "he is us", quoting him.

    And then he made a pun: "he is U.S."

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18960 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    Chris Keall's NBR story alludes to Oliver Hazard Perry as the originator of the "we have met the enemy and he is X" trope.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2968 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Geoff Lealand,

    I think the Herald’s decision to lead with this story (and deliberately mis-interpret the context?) is as ill-judged as Judge Harvey’s quip. Oh, the irony!

    I'm a bit torn over this. Yes, what was reported was what was said. But did the Herald story go for a more sensational angle? Yes also.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18960 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Russell Brown,

    did the Herald story go for a more sensational angle?

    Hard to fault Nat's summary:

    the article’s flow was “SCANDAL! POSSIBLE SCANDAL! Some fact. (probably not scandal)”

    But I suspect the damage was done by the overseas tech blogs not doing things as thoroughly as say the BBC.

    Judge Harvey made the comment at the NetHui internet conference in Auckland on 12 July.

    He had been taking part in a discussion about the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) treaty - a proposed intellectual rights agreement involving the US and about a dozen other countries.

    The judge had noted that at present it was legal for citizens in New Zealand to hack DVD region codes to watch disks designed to be restricted to other countries, adding that TPP would change this.

    "Under TPP and the American Digital Millennium copyright provisions you will not be able to do that, that will be prohibited," he said.

    "If you do you will be a criminal, that's what will happen.

    "There are all sorts of ways this whole thing is being ramped up and if I could use Russell's tweet from earlier on - we have met the enemy and he is US."

    The reference was a play on words adapting the quote "we have met the enemy and he is us".

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16746 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Sacha,

    it was legal for citizens in New Zealand to hack DVD region codes to watch disks designed to be restricted to other countries

    Heh. Hacker nation.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18960 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Russell Brown,

    has to be some marketing mileage there. Attract Swedish migrants, etc.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16746 posts Report Reply

  • Martin Lindberg, in reply to Sacha,

    Attract Swedish migrants, etc

    why else would I be here? ;-)

    Stockholm • Since Jul 2009 • 797 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Martin Lindberg,

    our backpacking opportunities :)

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16746 posts Report Reply

  • Jarno van der Linden,

    Would it have been alright if Judge Harvey held such personal feelings about the US and copyright while working on the KimDotCom case, but did not disclose them?

    Nelson • Since Oct 2007 • 69 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Jarno van der Linden,

    Not so much 'personal feelings' as an opinion based on evidence by anyone who knows the subject area well enough.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16746 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Chris Keall has a longer story about the context for the Judge's remark.

    Given the extreme consequence of Judge Harvey's one-liner, it's worth looking at its context – which includes his broader assertion that NZ copyright law protects not just a copyright holder, but an audience's right to access content.

    That is 100% true, but also wildly unpalatable for Kim Dotcom's foes. A US-driven chapter of the TPP would over-ride that philosophy.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16746 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell,

    In bringing the TPP to such front-page prominence, regardless of the Kim Dotcom case, the learned Judge may have done a *good thing* for the wider cause.

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 1574 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    In bringing the TPP to such front-page prominence, regardless of the Kim Dotcom case, the learned Judge may have done a *good thing* for the wider cause.

    Something I suspect the Raindancers for John Frum, oops, TPPA shills, didn't plan on happening.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4351 posts Report Reply

  • Pete Sime,

    It was a beat-up coming out of nothing, but Judge Harvey did the right thing. Standing down was an act of remarkable integrity to maintain faith in New Zealand's justice system.

    Dunedin • Since Apr 2008 • 144 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Pete Sime,

    Standing down was an act of remarkable integrity to maintain faith in New Zealand’s justice system.

    It was remarkable when contrasted with the acts of politicians, some of whom totally lack integrity - but he behaved in the best traditions of our judiciary (and indeed, the fount from which our judicial sytem sprang.)

    I am now rarely proud of being an ANZer: everything seems so grubbed over with just one standard - whaddya worth? And if you arnt wealthy & you dont provide wealth (in the only - monetary- sense it is now understood) - you aint worth anything, mate...Judge Harvey has given me renewed hope that ANZers
    can still stand proud-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell, in reply to Islander,

    Judge Harvey has given me renewed hope that ANZers
    can still stand proud-

    and that's priceless :)

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 1574 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Radio NZ story from yesterday begins with actual audio of Harvey's sentence (4 mins, listening options).

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16746 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade,

    Judge Harvey said "he is us"

    I tweeted "he is us", quoting him.

    And then he made a pun: "he is U.S."

    and then he got fired. It's a sad affair when lawcases gets influenced by good wit. Something feels wrong with this.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • Richard Aston, in reply to Islander,

    Nice re-frame Islander ,
    I was thinking down the track that he'd been set up by a media feeding frenzy etc etc but you are pointing out Judge Harvey has publicly demonstrated moral character in the middle of a case drowning in moral ambiguity - I nice antidote to the politicians running for cover after receiving their dotcom bribes.
    Yeah maybe there is renewed hope

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 503 posts Report Reply

  • merc, in reply to Jeremy Eade,

    Indeed. It has A Man For All Seasons feel to it.
    "More is a man of an angel's wit and singular learning. I know not his fellow. For where is the man of that gentleness, lowliness and affability? And, as time requireth, a man of marvelous mirth and pastimes, and sometime of as sad gravity. A man for all seasons."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Man_for_All_Seasons

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade, in reply to merc,

    Exactly, it was a delightful quote and a cute pun. The influence of the joke surely exagerrated by a huge spotlight on a tiny exchange of words.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • merc, in reply to Jeremy Eade,

    Judging by what I have witnessed regarding our Prime Minister's and their generally collective lack of respect for the judiciary, I feel Judge Harvey is better off out of it.
    Russell may well have aided in the Judge's non-downfall at the hands of an acquiescent NZ Govt.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade, in reply to merc,

    Sure, but evolving the law is still a desirable acitivity, as is sorting out this Dotcom case and having clarity on the issues. It's a pretty important case and the abscence of this individual seems a loss to that cause, well according to most of the comments about his particular talents.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • merc, in reply to Jeremy Eade,

    NZ law, thank God, is more than adequate to the task, as are any of our Judges. The NZ Govt. on the other hand, bloweth where the wind listeth.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade, in reply to merc,

    Not god, but Rich English Barons and Lazy Kings. I guess I was under the impression that N.Z law had already failed by letting the arrest happen.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

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