Is it really any wonder that the Labour Party would collude with Nicky Hager in this preposterous beat-up? Yet more shrieks of "EXCLUSIVE BRETHREN!", rehashed claims that Americans were writing National Party policy, and that people anonymously?

As you pointed out he tends to have his arm round some subjects who need to be interviewed whilst he is willing to shout at others. Vis also his efforts with the Chair of the ARC this morning. That man had some interesting things?

...we still are stuck with a desperate Labour Party willing to resort to a scumbag pseudo-investigative journalist like Nicky Hager

Hager is on the Labour payroll? The same Hager who embarassed Labour with Corngate? How does that work then?

Herald digipoll today shows National on 47.3% support, seven percent ahead of Labour.

Interesting figures, it should be pointed out that was a poll of Aucklanders. I believe Auckland voted in bigger numbers for National than Labour in the General Election. That poll was at least carried out by a?

Let's see who had the stolen emails: Winston Peters, his staff (who deleted them), Jordan Carter (on the basis of claims of inside knowledge as to their contents), and half of the Labour Party.

Nicky Hager?

If not, he may as well slink off and open Hager, Wisheart and?

There is nothing new here; we still are stuck with a desperate Labour Party willing to resort to a scumbag pseudo-investigative journalist like Nicky Hager using stolen personal correspondence to come up with absurd conspiracy theories on nothing new.

Let's play cut and paste!

There is nothing new here; we?

I have never defended Wishart. I've been bagging the guy well before he came up with the totally irrelevant stuff on Peter Davis. Have a look at http://insolentprick.blogspot.com/2006/05/new-crusaders.html

In particular, there is this: in just what circumstances does Don Brash believe it is acceptable to withhold information – or further – actively?

Nope. Auckland went Labour.

Um, I don't know if you noticed, but a while back Plunkett was?

Come on, noizyboy. You really don't think Pete Hodgson had copies of the emails?

It's irrelevant. The question is whether the claims in the book have merit, and the rest of us can't know that until the book can safely be published.

I guess posturing about the emails is inevitable,?

Hum, does that include the Prime Minister who (quite understandably) took very strong exception to the Hagar co-authored allegations that, on?

My point remains the same,?

Then it also strikes me as a perfectly legitimate follow up to ask why Hagar didn't recast the book without the injuncted material, and ithe response was equally legitimate.

And then Plunket helpfully suggested to Brash that Hager "couldn't be bothered" having his entire book re-edited, re-paginated and re-printed to?

Plunket is a pretty lousy interviewer.

i'm glad you said that. he annoys the hell out of me

Hilarity.

Hum, does that include the Prime Minister who (quite understandably) took very strong exception to the Hagar co-authored allegations that, on her watch as the responsible Minister, the SIS was spying on her political enemies, including an MP?

As I've pointed out elsewhere, the official report on the Operation Leaf?

there is gathering speculation that the emails have already posined brash and the next person that it might take is John Key.

This means good news for Bill English.

I'm sure that's a symptom of something.

That said, the lack?

This is very much in the nature of politics and the public sphere...

Hager's work is a beat-up by a fringe socialist who is desperately afraid of Don Brash's leadership taking National to victory next election.

Impressive that you've managed to review the book, when I presume you have yet to get your hands on a copy!

I haven't read Seeds of?

Recycling. Very green of him.

"That said, the lack of impact the comment made there is an interesting starting point in comparing the two forums."

The other being that I haven't called anyone a peabrain on this one.

Hager is a loon. I'm not concerned if he wants to come up with yet more stupid conspiracies. It is the Labour Party, through?

Hager is a loon. I'm not concerned if he wants to come up with yet more stupid conspiracies. It is the Labour Party, through their sudden desire to paint him as a respectable investigative journalist, who have credibility issues here.

Where are they doing this?

there is gathering speculation that the emails have already posined brash and the next person that it might take is John Key.

This means good news for Bill English.

I've been out of the country for a while but isn't that the same as something being good news for Clark??

Nah..c'mon...you're just bored and winding us up eh?

I for one can't recall Labour recently pulling Hager into their collective bosom....

Apologies for the possible visual there...

there is gathering speculation that the emails have already posined brash and the next person that it might take is John Key.

This means good news for Bill English.

Which makes him a prime suspect for leaking the material in the first place...

Why would Bill English receive 50,000 private emails between Don Brash and others?

This is stolen correspondence. If Hager believes that he is not the recipient of stolen correspondence, then he is not covered by the?

Maybe you've met him yourself, and had some in-depth political discussions with him, and are therefore entitled to label him a 'fringe socialist'. Personally, from the knowledge that I have of him he's a long way from the socialist fringe.

Kyle – I suspect that for some commentators of the?

The question it leaves us in this context is: in what other contexts, if any, does he take the view, for high, low, paternal, or other motives, that what he tells the public need not square with what he actually knows?

Well, I've documented a couple since the?

Which makes him a prime suspect for leaking the material in the first place...

I like that...has the ring of occam's to it...

Bring on the rise of the south...

Which makes him a prime suspect for leaking the material in the first place...

I REALLY can't see English – or even Brian Connell – deciding to spill their guts to Nicky Hagar.

Both types are very, very boring and best avoided at social events.

clap, clap , clap. hear hear.

even the use of the word 'socialist' automatically imparts an air of hysteria to a commentator.

even if the email-derived content can be extracted from the book, we'll still have the remainder?

Why would Bill English receive 50,000 private emails between Don Brash and others?

Where'd you get that number from? Did obtaining it . . . hurt?

You keep repeating the claim that the documents were leaked, without any substance.

And to flip that around: National party supporters keep alleging that they were stolen by government hackers or some such conspiracy theory, on the basis that Brash has apparently asked his close associates and staff and?

yeah you can say they were stolen, they were stolen by an insider.

David Farrar has tried to tell everyone "leaking good, stealing bad"

"leaking" is basically stealing for a good reason.

sure you can induldge in fantasy about black robed ninja's breaking?

now there's a conspiracy theory with legs.

legs that should have been in the kitchen making neenish tarts and a cup of earl grey, aeh?

"leaking" is basically stealing for a good reason.

The legal commentator on Nine to Noon today seemed to me to be saying that "leaking" is not stealing. "Leaking" is the term used for when information is legally accessible by a group of people who (wisely or unwisely) trust each other.?

The thing about information being, you can sneak it off someone and they still have it.

Actually, if you were?

i'm picking a mass dump of emails from an employee sick of the sexual harassment.

now there's a conspiracy theory with legs.

Now, now, Che. You're straying into the gutter of private life innuendo. Next thing you know, someone will mention the Whalerider.

If the e-mail was stolen, then I'm uncertain as to how I feel abut it being published.

Well, Brian Edwards was pretty unequivocal in condemning the use of "stolen" emails by Hager yesterday.

I cannot see any party in NZ doing that to their opponents, what they do internally to?

however, a forbidden love like 'jungle fever' can lead a man to do strange, strange, things. wouldn't you agree?

a woman crushed beneath the weight of that great mass of fever could, conceivably, seek a weigh out.

H P Lovecraft said that that "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents". Reading the innuendo above, I think he was right.

Er... come on guys, private conversation there – who is the Whalerider? (I have my suspicions).

Please Cthulhu no. I don't know, and I don't want to know. That's Wishart territory.

"Why would Bill English receive 50,000 private emails between Don Brash and others?"

Where'd you get that number from? Did obtaining it . . . hurt?

It may be a frequently used conduit, so probably not.

Ewwwww!

"It may be a frequently used conduit"

and ewwwwww! (I'm prepared (hoping) to believe I misunderstood that one.)

Russell Brown & David Slack, why are we seeing less of you on Breakfast these days ?

Don't know what Russell's current schedule is, but on the Friday week in review, we're now a three-week roster instead of fortnightly: Joe Bennett and Caroline Daley, Wallace Chapman and Penny Ashton, and Michele?

Don't know what Russell's current schedule is, but on the Friday week in review, we're now a three-week roster instead of fortnightly:

I always forget to tell my Mum ...

It is really a question of how much dishonesty we are willing to stomach. And unfortunately we won't know how dishonest "honest Don"?

make it look involuntary & everyone will forgive you. :)

It is really a question of how much dishonesty we are willing to stomach

Yeah, I guess that's it, the Matrix school of politics.

His legacy will not be the job he did restoring the National Party to a?

Author Nicky Hager says the lawyer for National leader Don Brash has told him that he will not be required to hand over the 3000 copies of his book about the Brash-led National Party to the High Court ... "Because things are moving quickly they have decided that they?

A pity, because Elizabethan marriage always seemed like fun.

"I'd wave, but that's probably not the way the cool people do it."

make it look involuntary & everyone will forgive you. :)

The only way I can see that turning out is everyone thinking he's having a fit on national TV.

The only way I can see that turning out is everyone thinking he's having a fit on national TV.

Would I suggest a thing like that to David? :)

The only way I can see that turning out is everyone thinking he's having a fit on national TV.

Thanks. You've saved me the trouble of making a joke about stem cell research that I would probably have regretted ...

Anyone who could read? Sorry for the snark, but most people I know?

So people really do watch Breakfast TV Wow!

Depends on the job I suppose. I am home nowadays, looking after my daughter; performing my "ablution" before she wakes up :)

Anyone who could read? Sorry for the snark, but most people I know of all political persuasions hit the point of information (and spin) overload a while back.

Hmm we must be living in different worlds. Oh wait, we ARE living in different worlds. Thanks for reminding me ;-)

Yes, we must be living in different worlds. Then again, I don't start screeching 'bias' every time I hear or read something disobliging to the National Party (though I do have to wonder whether some hacks are starting to feel like the cult leader who's been predicting the world?

I REALLY can't see English – or even Brian Connell – deciding to spill their guts to Nicky Hagar.

Yes, in the Kathryn Ryan interview yesterday Hager explicitly said that Bill English was NOT one of the people who gave him information for the book.

Tis enough?

But editorial news judgement is a funny thing. To take one example. I hope?

Will the real slim shady please stand up....

Verpal:

Yes, we must be living in different worlds. Then again, I don't start screeching 'bias' every time I hear or read something disobliging to the National Party (though I do have to wonder whether some hacks are starting to feel like the cult leader who's been predicting the world?

Bad news for Labour?

Don's gone.

. . . indeed.

And is if just me, or is somebody, somewhere, laughing in that evil-magalomaniacial "my- large- ultimate- plan- for- world- domination- has- finally- come- to- fruition' kinda way . . ?

Actually, no. If the John Key Fan Club thinks his honeymoon with the media didn't end the moment Brash resigned, they're delusional – just ask Bill English. :) If Labour are smart, the crocodile tears for poor Don, stabbed in the arras by his own caucus,?

It remains to be seen if this works against Labour in the long run..... Key seems far more electable to fence-sitting voters as far as I can see?

Of course, if Hagar's book is also damaging to Key, as has been suggested....

Who else?

Actually, no. If the John Key Fan Club thinks his honeymoon with the media didn't end the moment Brash resigned, they're delusional – just ask Bill English. :)

I gather Key does not suffer too badly in the book. Murray McCully might not be so happy.

blogstipation will set in and cripple him if he's not careful.

Oh the humanity.

I think Key has a real chance of giving Labour hell.

the best bit?

I think Key has a real chance of giving Labour hell.

I think so. But I also hope he can craft a National Party I can live with.

And David Farrar is on a plane, unable to blog...

blogstipation will set in and cripple him if he's not careful.

Oh God. I can just picture them making a mid-flight announcement ...

I think so. But I also hope he can craft a National Party I can live with.

I've been thinking the same thing. Some of his views on tax reform are surprisingly reasonable. I was particularly impressed that he seems to understand the importance of giving R&D either tax exempt or?

Personally I hope Key – or whomever else takes over – makes a good fist of things. I'd like to be able to see National as a?

things have matured a little since then.

Well they have in most places except in investigate magazine, adult club member, really how terribly boring and if so who cares, is?

as for farrar now, i'm sure he'll be on the airphone to a colleague to send in a conciliatory blogpost any minute now!

he just freaking loved that big skinny?

The next two parliamentary weeks will be fascinating – any honeymoon Key might have hoped for has been eroded by his inaction (Craig's point?

Key seems far more electable to fence-sitting voters as far as I can see?

But he may then lose the more extreme elements whose ears pricked up at Brash's dog-whistles. Bill English just seemed too reasonable and moderate to give National a recognisable point of difference, which is what Brash?

Personally I hope Key – or whomever else takes over – makes a good fist of things. I'd like to be able to see National as a party I could actually vote for instead of the somewhat sinister, reactionary party we currently know and fear.

That's pretty much my view?

[Key] may then lose the more extreme elements whose ears pricked up at Brash's dog-whistles.

But (and I'm not sure Dr Brash ever grasped this) those votes go to your coalition partners while you pick up center votes off your main opponent.

Firstly, Brash resurrected National's fortunes, not Key. Aren't National still ahead in the polls?

Secondly, there is something I don't trust about Key that I can't put my finger on. My problem with Brash was the sense he was projecting a moderate image?

Firstly, Brash resurrected National's fortunes, not Key. Aren't National still ahead in the polls?

There's a perception on both sides of the divide that that's more the result of the recent bad publicity for Labour than for anything National or Brash have done.

The recent polarisation of NZ politics is against the trend of the last 15 years – both parties need to represent their members and interests however it all appeared to be getting out of hand.

Brash will?

John Key audio

So who is next?

I don't know, Russell, because I think Labour will have looked at the ALP, the Republicans and the British Tories and realised this: centerist/swing voters are very reluctant to reward parties tagged (fairly?

I think the New Zealand media can feel proud. Through months of rhetoric, one sided reporting and so forth they have forced the Gentleman's Politician to resign. A victory for the small mindset and those?

Paul, to be quite honest I thought most of the hand-wringing about how 'polarised' the electorate had become at the last election was real put-rubber-sheets-on-the-bed stuff, which said more about the media than the?

I don't think he has the experience and frankly if he does not get up to speed quickly Helen will have him for?

"[Key] may then lose the more extreme elements whose ears pricked up at Brash's dog-whistles."

But (and I'm not sure Dr Brash ever grasped this) those votes go to your coalition partners while you pick up center votes off your main opponent.

Yes, if they can form a coalition, and?

thought most of the hand-wringing about how 'polarised' the electorate had become at the last election was real put-rubber-sheets-on-the-bed stuff, which said more about the media than the electorate.

I really don't know about that. You've got a section of the community that believes firmly that Maori are vastly, unfairly?

Yes, Tom, and imagine if Helen Clark appinted as Foreign Affairs Minister a man she'd spent fifteen years codemning as an unprincipled and loathesome bigot who wasn't fit to be in Parliament, let alone a Minister?

True but they are a tiny, tiny minority

You also have to be aware that people say things on the internet behind aliases they would never ever say in real life.

That's what I'm not so sure about. Perhaps I attract them, but there are a half dozen of them?

The National Party will have more success if it has a viable coalition partner on its right.

As for all the bullshit about?

Yes, Tom, and imagine if Helen Clark appinted as Foreign Affairs Minister a man ...

You don't have to tell me how crazy that seems! :-)

I was just pointing out that it's tricky for any party or stable coalition to cover a wide enough spectrum to get elected these?

That's true.... but it doesnt mean it's not what they actually think.

Yes, and wouldn't it be nice if ACT got it's shit together and started acting like the 'party of personal responsibility' instead of blaming National for (gasp!) learning from experience?

It was almost enough to get elected, but they drove away enough centrists (and economically dry but socially liberal voters) not to win.

I'm intrigued to see what happens to the NZ First vote in the next election. That's a good 5-7% of centrist vote going begging.

always interesting in new media responses to breaking news and am an avid reader of online newspaper forums.

Do you have stats on hits and responses over the last few hours?

I'm guessing there was a spike in both.

Cheers & fun times, looks like the city council meeting is?

Well, I keep hearing that, but then you hit the hard wall of reality that is the 2002 general election.

good to see they're "acting as individuals" in Victoria too, just as they did in Tasmania.

with exactly the same message. and agenda. and almost the same method.

but i suppose a misogynistic cult is a misogynistic cult. burkha headscarve for your ladies?

John Key is another media creation. A completely untested entity to whom people, led by the media, are ready to entrust a whole country, without knowing why.

I know you're making a slightly different point, Verpal, about manipulating the political puppets we vote for, but there are few?

Don Brash was as much responsible for increasing National's seats in the last elections as George Bush II was for winning the 2000 election for Republicans.

The record says otherwise. IMO it was Brash's "honest", professorial public image that facilitated the profound shift in our nation's conversation on race relations?

the 4th Labour Government opened the pandora's box of historical grievance, but then did nothing to address the results (i'm thinking specifically of Prebble's patronisation and mishandling of the Tainui?

In the increasingly likely event the All Blacks win the Rugby World Cup in 2007, Clark & her advisors?

Brash's Orewa speech was a quantum leap backwards into colonialism and assimilation of 'the hories'. fostering racial dissent is not a reflection of democracy in action, i.e. tapping the 'national mood', it is demagoguery or the worst kind.

I can only agree that fostering racial dissent is unacceptable. I?

i can't really comment on National party policy or lines of argument, but can say with conviction that the "saved from irrelevance" argument always seems trite. when has the National Party not been the natural?