Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Moving targets

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  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Soo tidy innit.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Petra,

    No need to go away now! I'm enjoying your point of view. :)

    Plus, as an amateur photographer, I would LOVE to travel China with my camera. Hell, yes.

    Also, I'm a bit pissy at the moment because Ai Weiwei has been paced under house arrest for the political statements he makes in his art. And I <3 Ai Weiwei!

    I guess it's that old adage - communism: man exploiting man. At least with capitalism it's the other way around.

    Rotorua • Since Mar 2007 • 317 posts Report Reply

  • chris,

    Why are a New Zealand MP and former PM cooperating with Yang rather than Preest?

    why does anyone get conned? Yang is probably a very smooth talker.

    No he's not. I posted his phone number on the other page, try him, he's a very nervous man with poor English who sounded entirely out of his depth. Despite this, both he and his assistant seemed a little too well informed about the plight of someone he 'conned' and should really have no motive to protect.

    And Neil from the page you posted, and I quoted he; is with Jenny Shipley a major shareholder in New Zealand Natural and Pure, a company that is registered at Wong's electoral office. How much conning would that take?

    All of them stained by the blood of hovercraft.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Neil Morrison,

    I think initially the Wongs saw themselves as comming to the assistance of a NZ business in trouble.

    Based on what, Neil?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Also, I’m a bit pissy at the moment because Ai Weiwei has been paced under house arrest

    But Aung San Suu Kyi (Burmese: အောင်ဆန်းစုကြည်;
    is FREE!

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    There's a very significant entitlement mentality at work...

    It has become a rort of passage!

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report Reply

  • Petra, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    I know! Free the higher profile prisoner and lock up a few not so well known ones. There ought to be a law... :(

    I'm happy for Aung San Suu Kyi, though. Bloody long time coming.

    Rotorua • Since Mar 2007 • 317 posts Report Reply

  • Petra,

    lol. I <3 Ian Dalziel. Yes, I do.

    Rotorua • Since Mar 2007 • 317 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    All of them stained by the blood of hovercraft.

    Out thou damm spot!

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Free the higher profile prisoner and lock up a few not so well known ones.

    Hey, gotta earn ya stripes.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Dismal Soyanz, in reply to Petra,

    Hmmm. Given the extent to which the Ockers, Yanquis and Nips already own NZ Inc, I'm not sure what the additional harm is going to be.

    Petra, I'd be interested to hear how exactly you think China is screwing us?

    China owning "our" (not sure some of the Tangata Whenua would quite agree on that term) land? Not wanting to threadjack, I'll just note that I have yet to see a convincing argument that a) foreign ownership of NZ land is ever going to be significant and b) that the effect is going to be detrimental.

    China can, of course, have our politicians. So long as they don't send them back.

    I'm fairly ambivalent about foreign investment into NZ. Probably the only thing of merit I think to come out of the Natural Dairy fiasco is the question of reciprocity.

    As for the IP issue with China, you have to be blind Freddy not to realise that any investment into China is going to carry a huge risk that IP will be stolen. The counterfeit trade in China is huge and has been significant from the time that Deng opened China to foreign investment.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2010 • 310 posts Report Reply

  • Petra, in reply to Dismal Soyanz,

    China is expanding it's power in the Pacific, through the pen rather than the sword. Piece by small piece, it's making inroads. It has an agenda, and I'm a bit squicky about what exactly that agenda is. The propaganda is all very feel good; and in some cases, the country has been quite magnanimous, by providing development aid and low-interest loans, and even cancelling some debts owed by Pacific Island nations. But the end result, which may well take a few patient decades, is about "One China" that extends into the greater Asia-Pacific (and Indian Ocean) regions. Quiet money and diplomacy will see them get to the point where they hold the balance of power in this region, and then maybe they'll begin to exercise that power with a more authoritarian hand. I admit that I might be being a bit dramatic or alarmist, with too little evidence to present, but China makes me even more nervous than the US.

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/JD10Ad02.html

    http://www.cis.org.au/media-information/opinion-pieces/article/538-what-does-china-really-want-from-the-pacific

    So, I may be conspiracy theorising to some degree, or my wary view of China may be well founded. I guess we'll find out all in good time.

    Also, I am Ngati Whakaue - on my dad's side - so I am Tangata Whenua in this region. I got my Whakapapa and everything! ;-)

    Rotorua • Since Mar 2007 • 317 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    China is expanding it’s power in the Pacific, through the pen rather than the sword.

    Which makes one hell of a change for the good, from a historical perspective, no?

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Petra, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    Depends on the endgame, I guess. First the pen, then the hammer?

    Rotorua • Since Mar 2007 • 317 posts Report Reply

  • Petra,

    Rotorua • Since Mar 2007 • 317 posts Report Reply

  • Dismal Soyanz, in reply to Petra,

    In which case, you may have to get the land off the colonists before they sell it off to the Chinese. ‘Cos you know they will dig it up and send it back to China.

    But seriously, you are right that China is an emerging power. And yes, I would be nervous about how it exercises its power in the sense that it is a big unknown But for the foreseeable future I am a helluva lot more nervous about how the US exercises its power. The few times China has exercised its military muscle in the post-liberation era, it has had its nose fairly bloodied. And while it is undoubtedly modernising its capabilities, its going to be some time (decades?) before it can maintain the same forward projection capabilities as the US has now. But even before one starts to think about that (and why on earth would China want to send people to die to take land that it wouldn’t be able to hold), your links do ask the question of what is in it for China.

    Interestingly, I can’t see where those links suggest that there is a significant threat. Of course, China is in it for the influence but to what end? Lee’s article fails to make the connection that for China, politics is ultimately economics. The only way the Communists can stay in power is if they keep the populace happy – that means jobs, money and rising living standards. China Uber Alles doesn’t really fit into that and there really is no point in China having territorial control in the Pacific. The point about supply chain security, I can see to some extent but I don’t see what supplies are going to ever be that important. Energy? Yes, China will have a big demand for it but how secure is shipping uranium from Oz going to be if it has to contend with US subs?

    Balance of power is soooo cliche in a kinda proportional representation way. Balance between who and who? Power over what? IMHO, there never has been a balance of power in history or geographically – it’s always been imbalanced. The only way a balance can be rationalised is if you believe in the MAD doctrine – always a great prism through which to view the world (not).

    I think you are right to be wary of China. But by the same token I would be just as wary of any other country as their interests are unlikely to coincide with ours (which after all, should be primarily about the well-being of NZers). It would be more productive to understand what it is that motivates the Chinese (Communist) government than to be afraid that lil ol’ Kiwi(fruitvine-less)land is gonna have its lunch money stolen.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2010 • 310 posts Report Reply

  • Dismal Soyanz,

    Just read your asianz.org link, Petra. the fact, that I seem to be agreeing with an academic worries me that I may be wrong.

    Independent corroboration? Pffft.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2010 • 310 posts Report Reply

  • Petra,

    I see your points, and you raise some questions I'll have to think over. I'm open to having my mind changed.

    As for the MAD doctrine, it doesn't matter a stitch in me knickers whether I personally believe in it or not (I don't), but it does matter if those with much greater geopolitical clout than you or I have do. There be no shortage of mad buggers at the top, in either China or the US!

    But I'll not hide under my bed just yet. I'll ponder your points first, with a nice cup of tea. :)

    Rotorua • Since Mar 2007 • 317 posts Report Reply

  • Petra, in reply to Dismal Soyanz,

    Edit: Never mind! I do get what you mean - didn't read properly - missed a word or two. Ooopsies!

    Rotorua • Since Mar 2007 • 317 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Selling off productive assets to foreign owners concerns me regardless of where they’re from – and frankly most have been from the US, Britain and suchlike so far. However, China’s economy seems more conducive to them being a source of investment for the coming years at least.

    Military battles are not the only ones worth paying attention to – for instance, online stoushes (which of course the US and allies have been doing for ages) are only going to be more significant along with IP and other such matters as more daily activity moves online.

    Ability to build and manage solid governance relationships between nations, citystates, business and social entities will remain crucial balancing factors against aggressive actions. This nation’s reputation for low levels of corruption is well worth preserving, and there should be no tolerance for weaselling about repeated breaches being naive errors, especially from Prime Ministers. The current international travel perk may be gone, but the sub-standard behaviour and attitude is no doubt still with us.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Petra,

    I see what you did there, Sacha!

    Very clever, bringing us back on topic like that...

    Rotorua • Since Mar 2007 • 317 posts Report Reply

  • chris,

    As for the IP issue with China, you have to be blind Freddy not to realise that any investment into China is going to carry a huge risk that IP will be stolen. The counterfeit trade in China is huge and has been significant from the time that Deng opened China to foreign investment.

    Sure, but we're not talking about counterfeits here, and as you said, you have to be blind Freddy:

    "If you know what the dangers are, you protect yourself. It's not that horribly expensive and the intellectual property office responds reasonably quickly.

    The patent examination process is on a par with the Canadian or American one. But if you can deliberately make it less obvious as to what's behind your IP so much the better."

    Despite the FTA hoopla, there's very little NZ small business owners can do to protect their investments in China and that while setting up the FTA this was clearly not a key focus, there is little recourse for the NZ small business owner or joint venture partner, and in this case the situation is aggravated by the fact that we see ex ministers, MPs and their family members cooperating not so much with the NZ business owner as those who would be ripping NZers off.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Meanwhile, shameless chutzpah of the day: Bill English sez Westpac customers owed explanation of executive pay and perks in “difficult economic times." Irony, thy name is not William English.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Petra, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Oh, jeez. It's like they're a whole 'nuther species. Hard to know whether to laugh or cry!

    Rotorua • Since Mar 2007 • 317 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    I don’t know whether to laugh or cry either. Or just re-read it with a mouth full of coffee so I can blow it all over the screen.
    I would ask if the man has no shame, but rhetorical questions are just so, well, rhetorical.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

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