I don't really know how to counter such out right denial

Yes it can feel a little over whelming when the 'Your say' page of the Herald starts to look like the Fundies say the funniest things website.
But I wonder if the deniers are shooting themselves in the foot.?

She basically said; Climate change is a natural process that?s been happening for thousands of years

20,000 years I think it was – makes me wonder what was happening before that, perhaps climate didn't exist...

I too have a hard time getting my head around climate-change deniers and their illogical?

'Hitting the enemy where they are strong'

I saw a historical quote in the New Yorker from Karl Rove saying that was the way to go...

So what is the consensus amongst deniers?

I recall from the Coalition's first release (haven't the patience to dig it up on Scoop) that they included?

On a more serious note the thing I don't understand is why do the anti-climate change groups get so uptight. What the scientists are saying is?

On the other hand a close friend who's a palynologist (with impeccable left wing credentials) and researches past climate change was a climate change skeptic?

don't worry Jimmy, what the Herald prints is only indicative of what interests they want to promote, not what ordinary sane informed people actually think. just look at how heavily they promoted the views of the?

the Herald prints is only indicative of what interests they want to promote

Does Darth George still compile the letters page? Or did he get put out to pasture from that role? He seems to have a worthy successor in however moderates the Your Views material.

I think the psychology behind it is partly "I don't like people telling me what to think".

I've been having a think about this & I think there's an extra element to it – progressive theories table the proposition what we've always assumed was right & good hasn't just been factually incorrect,?

I have a whole mess of a theory muddling around in my head wrt relativism, ego, christians and world travel

Know the feeling. I find that since it seems so irrational that is hard to write in a rational way just to discuss it.

I'm surprised I haven't heard any fundie christians use the rainbow argument. "God promised he'd never again wipe out the earth with a flood."

Our Garth is way ahead of you...

then there's?

i believe so, is anyone surprised by that?

it's called neophobia, just one of the many fears conservatism and fundyism are based on

I have been quite interested to see how Labour and the Tories in the UK seem to have ended up on a bidding war over this. That is to say they appear to be trying to ?out green? each other. From this I would speculate that someone?

"I see that Garth George has decided to write about global warming again in the wake of the IPCC report. However, I can remember another of?

Now where's that damn cat......

Our Garth is way ahead of you...

...oh. Probably I should read the reference material before answering the exam questions.

Does climate change kill kittens ?

I thought god killed a kitten every time you pleasure yourself.
The sick f**k.

I thought god killed a kitten every time you pleasure yourself.
The sick f**k.

Certain people have actually used that as the basis of an anti-masturbation campaign. Personally, I think that encouraging people to think about kittens being killed while playing with themselves can only end bady.

I thought god killed a kitten every time you pleasure yourself.

Only when He's watching. Which is all the time ...

Only when He's watching. Which is all the time ...

So he is a sadist and a peeping tom?

If European energy policy ends up as a drive towards nuclear energy at all costs I can't help feeling that an opportunity will have been lost.

Frankly, I'd rather the Europeans (and Americans, and Australians, and Chinese) burned uranium than coal. Meanwhile I'm also glad that we have no need?

Too much coffee.

So he is a sadist and a peeping tom?

Well his forebear YAHWEH knew no bounds, at all, that's why the franchise needed a serious upgrade to...The All Lovin' God, Jesus, son of, but actually Lord, aw it's gets kinda complicated, you just gotta have faith. (More points, introduces another?

Yes, it seems that some of the scientists with informed objections are paleoclimatologists and geologists, but there seem to be valid rebuttals to their arguments. I'm clearly in no position to adjudicate there.

Well, they're right that we have long-term variability in the climate system – but the degree of?

What is it in?

I suppose this means zombies. Oooh, I'm not fond of them either.

I think I prefered the pagan gods – they only fucked with famous people's lives.

Yes with style and seduction and the thrill of the chase, they got their women.
How sad a god do you have to be if you have to actually tell the chick (Mary) that you?

I can't understand why fundys who profess love for God's earth and their fellow men past, present and future are so opposed to global warming.

I'd say that the fact that they're all about the next world goes a long way to understanding why they don't seem to give a?

As well as fucking swans, bulls, siblings, parents and all manner of perverted stuff..... the Greek and Roman gods were certainly unhindered by morals or convention when it came to having a good time!

the Greek and Roman gods were certainly unhindered by morals or convention when it came to having a good time

As a pose to taking another man's wife, then expecting him to raise the off spring.

3410: You forgot idea that god provides everything we need. Which is another arguement?

You forgot idea that god provides everything we need. Which is another arguement they use against worrying about climate change.

Either God or 'human ingenuity' – another Leighton line.

If it's 'the fire next time', not flooding, shouldn't they be more concerned about global warming?

Thing is, God doesn't have to destroy the world with a flood. Humans can do a perfectly adequatic job without him.

If it's 'the fire next time', not flooding, shouldn't they be more concerned about global warming?

No because they would have been raptured up to heaven long before that.
And their form of christianity doesn't give a f**k about anyone else.

i don't think jebus is all that up on the IT stuff

But he may have had an ipod lol

Jesus Ipod

I apologise if that link doesn't work. I have only just figured out how to use the quote thing. lol

I'm clearly in no position to adjudicate there.

I think this is an important point. On what grounds does someone like Garth or Leighton discard the findings of the IPCC? It is absurd that some people presume to make authoritative claims about the truth or falsity of scientific theory without?

Illegal aliens will be the first to cop it, trust me.

...after they've returned to their home countries, presumably.

...after they've returned to their home countries, presumably.

Doh! Must-do-some-work...

If we can fully make it dust and not just perform ritual ablation then?

i think you meant iGod

I think the important thing, is did he pay for his downloads

Being God means not having to carry a wallet.

Doubt being god would stop the RIAA from sending him a letter.

Doubt being god would stop the RIAA from sending him a letter.

Hhehhe, very true.

Anyway, to recycle what I posted on the frogblog?

The science isn't settled. We all know that.

I thought the point was the science is settled – G8 science acadamies, NASA, IPCC etc are 90% certain of predictions (and the cause being anthropogenic CO2). That's good enough odds for me, and like an earlier post said a lot of?

In a joint statement MetService Chief Executive Mr Paul Reid and NIWA's Acting Chief Executive Dr Bryce Cooper say: "The relationship issues reported in the media are not those of the current people involved. Both organisations are continuing to work together to ensure that any?

yeah, who'd a thunk it wasn't just Augie being all bitter and twisted because nobody can be bothered listening to his drone anymore?

"The drafting of reports by the world's pre-eminent group of climate scientists is an odd process. For months scientists contributing to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change tussle over the evidence. Nothing gets published unless it achieves consensus. This means that the panel's?

And if all the science is so great why has the Australian National Tidal Data centre at Flinders University handed their data over to the Bureau of Metrology?

Would the Herald's respondants be typical of New Zealander's current thinking, or is this just the people with too much time of their hands?

Garth George's column has been so absurd for so long that he simply isn't worth taking seriously. And the same goes for his fan club, who?

we may be miles away from anywhere buy the global context has been dropped by all but those who write for liberal cantabrians (pacific refugees in the press).

with?

Would the Herald's respondants be typical of New Zealander's current thinking, or is this just the people with too much time of their hands?

Don't forget it's a "selection" of readers' views; about as useful an indication of anything as a Close-up "poll". My brilliantly scathing response, for?

Had to laugh at the NIWA 'prediction' of the glaciers receding in Westland, while the Franz is currently advancing ! ( no mention that the glacial maximum was reached in about 1830 which was the end of the Little Ice Age)

Sorry Steve Curtis but you are wrong. The Glacial?

yes i heard. pack of tosspots. i thought about this thread while listening and thought what arseholes. oh i?

He should stick to announcing sheepdog trials, they seem more in keeping with his talent.

These days his segment is like radio coverage of sheepdog trials. Has there been any actual content on that slot in past few months? I haven't noticed any.

It's more fun listening to the trainwrecks?

For the first time in my life, NatRad sucks. Likewise, the Listener ('Make money' / 'lose weight' / 'make money' / 'lose weight' / 'make money'?

There is considerable uncertainty in the Global?

We should do what makes sense – but normal economics will ensure that we do this anyway.

Classic!

Our discussions in NZ were more about Kyoto and why NZ is the ONLY country that records the cow fart methane and are then duly taxed immensely for our emissions. Is this true?

Nope. Every UNFCCC member is required to measure their emissions, including those from agricultural sources. It's just?

Yet nobody asks how much the cost of global warming will be reduced by the measures.

There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. I think the final phase of the IPCC investigation (to be released in may) is intended to provide exactly that – a range of?

And before anyone gets on their high horse about how valuable farming is, this isn't the nineteenth century anymore. Agriculture contributes only 5% of total GDP and 3.3% of total employment

There's no need for a high horse to point this out.

The importance of primary industry is not so?

casting polymorph on xxxxx ...... "everytime you break a sheep God kills a kitten"

cheers
Bart

The point surely is that, whilst the science is not quite 100% certain (and what is?), this must be weighed against the fact that, if the theory is correct, then we are 100% fucked if we don't start doing something about it, quick smart.

And more importantly most of the?

"I was travelling on the train to Bombay and an old Indian man was ripping up a sheet and throwing the pieces one by one out the window. I asked him what he was doing and he smiled and said 'It's to stop?

PS Is it a sign of old age that I'm less comfortable with the F word now?

Bart,
I don't throw it around. In this case, I decided that given the context, strong language seemed justified. I promise to usually refrain from such usage in future, except where the entire?

oh 3410 now you're just resorting to that other really offensive f word, fact. i think your?

The Stern review cloncludes that economically we should change our behaviour.

3140 wrote

The most likely answer to your other questions is: "Because it might cost me money, or prevent me from making more money".

But that's the point almost?

concludes
react

I don't really understand why I just am less comfortable with it than I used to be.

Probably the same reason that you listen to Jazz these days, and not so much Rock 'n' Roll. ;)

But that's the point almost all those things cost you less money and make?

- we're witnessing sheer bloody incompetence on a national scale.

There was a fine article in Unlimited three or four years back that noted an international study (OECD, perhaps?) which found that while New Zealand managers rated themselves as the thord or second best managers in the world, all the?

...by Pamela Stirling and Joanna Black...

God, yes! Mind you, everyone I know is cancelling their subscriptions, so maybe it won't last.

1 The world according to Garth...Personally, when I see Garth George wade into an issue I KNOW the opposing faction is on the right track.
How that bird flies with only its right wing I just don't know, but it's an?

Bjorn Lomberg , Augie Auer, Leighton Smith et al are not deluded by U.N. propaganda like so many of the tragic and gullible followers of spin.

Many of the arguments of the pro-lobby would get a fail mark in Science?

That is quite funny.
how do you post a vid clip directly like that?

Just paste in the URL from YouTube (not the embed code). It's special geek magic.

Also, techie's please help me to post link wid my chosen title instead of the cut and paste hack I do now...ref. above, should have read, My Hump.

Dude, see the instructions next to the 'Post a reply' text box.
Type [[ 'link' | 'The title you wish to display'?

8 years ago we were told planes would be dropping out of the sky when the Millennium Bug hit ...

Actually, I think this sort of scenario was touted as the worst case. The fact that there were almost no Y2K problems says more about the hard work that companies?

if climatologists are so confident in predicting negative climate change in 50 years time, how come they couldn't get the forecast right for Easter Weekend?

do some reading about climate science. you'll then blame meteoroligists for bung weather forecasts.

climatologists do not predict tomorrows weather. but they often?

if climatologists are so confident in predicting negative climate change in 50 years time, how come they couldn't get the forecast right for Easter Weekend?

Paradoxically long term prediction can indeed be more accurate than short term prediction. I can predict with a reasonable chance of success that the Dow?

as it is with the wildly misnamed chaos theory (haven't heard that term used for a while). hard for me to predict what the traffic around here will be like in the next 15 minutes but i will?

yes that is good although the title should have read: Garth vs. Brain

Just paste in the URL from YouTube (not the embed code). It's special geek magic.

Mawhaw, see I told you all, I am Tron! Actually I was quite scared I'd performed some sort of unnatural breach of copyright or netiquet or something. I love her voice in that song BTW,?

garth george's column has been fairly well slammed by its online readers:
NZ Herald – Your Views
thank god (!) for that – i was getting the impression that all kiwis were greedy selfish pricks like him

There still seem to be at least as many people cheering him on.?

setting someone up for firing

you reckon? he seems like a bit of an institution at the herald

What about the conmen who persuaded little old ladies to buy new appliances because 'onboard computers' might blow up?/

Um... what about them?

]]> Fri, 13 Apr 2007 14:21:19 +1200 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-no-friends-of-science/?p=12984#post12984 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-no-friends-of-science/?p=12984#post12984 Fri, 13 Apr 2007 14:21:44 +1200 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-no-friends-of-science/?p=12985#post12985 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-no-friends-of-science/?p=12985#post12985 seems like a bit of an institution at the herald

yeah probably just wishful thinking. not the Herald cares much about its institutions, it sold its own masthead (i think to Standard and Poors) a few years back, then later bought it back. if you can sell that to raise?

]]> Fri, 13 Apr 2007 14:22:47 +1200 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-no-friends-of-science/?p=12991#post12991 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-no-friends-of-science/?p=12991#post12991

Bah! I hate those quote things!

Now that I AM MAGIC,
1. CTRL C the actual text you want to quote
2. CTRL V it into the Post a reply... panel
3. CTRL C the actual quote html from the left menu
4. CTRL V it into the Post a?

So you see my dilemma?

All I am advocating?

Alanis [Morrisette's] version of My Hump rules!

I don't know if it's a testament to Alanis' performance skill or the power of music television BUT I was halfway thru the You Tube clip (page 7) when my 5 y.o. daughter asked "Is the Crazy Frog going to be next?"

Relevance?

Neil: The number you're looking for is that agriculture is responsible for 50% of export earnings.

I wasn't looking for the number, that was the information you left out when making the case that farming was of little econmic value any more –

And before anyone gets on their high?

Well, the Xmas before last I videotaped the Top 40 so she could see the Crazy Frog.

We should talk.

Unless you want your sons to be muthafunking gangsta wannabees and your daughters to be booty shakin' hoes

Already happened.
FM is very bad for everyone.

You don't want to eat dairy cows, high butter/ fat. You do want to eat beef, which are usually steers.

Yeah, I use cows to mean males and females of the species, which is technically incorrect I suspect. But I also call members of the ape family monkeys, which I?

That Franz Joseph must be a part of the reactionary deniers.
Climate Change Denial seems to be a shoe that fits quite a few.
Since there is no shortage of pundits who wear it when it suits.
Denial?

Could you tell the farmers I'm happy to pay 1% more for milk if that helps?

This is in jest I know but I think it's important to be clear that it's not the effect on our domestic economy but on our exports which is most important.

Decreasing the competitive?

-The Independent