Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Not all victims are equal

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  • Paul Campbell,

    I was listening to this this morning on the radio and all I could think was "why can't they find something that isn't a baseball metaphor" - I understand they're basically channeling the US right-wing but surely they could be a little more subtle "10 wickets and you're down"? "6 balls and you change ends"? maybe a bowls metaphor? (the rugby rules keep changing too fast)

    I was living in California when they instituted "3 strikes" - it made for great polemics for politicians - but it also lead to weird stuff like people going to jail for life for stealing slices of pizza - definitely not justice

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2623 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    That NDU report is extraordinary and I can't believe this is the only place I've seen to bring it up? The DoD's own school of military strategy, chaired by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, calls the entire thing a massive balls-up and seem to be setting it up for use as a teaching example of "what not to do", and this ISN'T leading Iraq news? Odd.
    Can't get through the link to the actual report though.

    They do raise this point though, which I agree with:
    "Strong majorities of both Iraqis and Americans favor some sort of U.S. withdrawal. Intelligence analysts, however, remind us that the only thing worse than an Iraq with an American army may be an Iraq after a rapid withdrawal of that army."
    AKA We fucked this up so badly, we need to get it back to a level of stability before we can, in good conscience, leave them to it...

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I was living in California when they instituted "3 strikes" - it made for great polemics for politicians - but it also lead to weird stuff like people going to jail for life for stealing slices of pizza - definitely not justice

    No. And they ended up with such severe overcrowding that burglars and recidivist drunk-drivers were routinely sent home without serving any time, because small-time drug offenders had been put behind bars for 20 years. So, yeah, the SST's proposal isn't quite as crazy, but it's not hard to envisage problems with it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    I always considered it a softball metaphor. That's kiwi enough surely?

    Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    That NDU report is extraordinary and I can't believe this is the only place I've seen to bring it up

    It is truly bizarre that it isn't wall-to-wall news.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I always considered it a softball metaphor. That's kiwi enough surely?

    Anyone game to concoct a cricket-and-crime metaphor?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I'm not surprised that audience members walked out during Annette King's speech to the Sensible Sentencing Trust's conference.

    Neither am I, but it's still boorish behaviour. You can't have it both ways (and please pardon my French): You treat people like shit, then you can't cry foul when they don't bother fronting up. Nor can you credibly complain that "all politicians are liars", then go feral when (shock! horror!) one stands up and tells you a few things she's got to know you don't want to hear.

    OTOH, it's going to be amusing (if your taste runs to black comedy disguised as public policy) watching the pander-palooza at this year's Grey Power shindig.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    OTOH, it's going to be amusing (if your taste runs to black comedy disguised as public policy) watching the pander-palooza at this year's Grey Power shindig.

    Oh God yes. And it'll be a three-way ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Ben Austin,

    I was watching a breakfast BBC show the other morning and they had not one but two commentators who came on and basically said "despite what people seem to believe crime has dropped consistently since the 1990s and the widespread feeling people seem to have about the decline of society is baseless".

    Needless to say I was shocked that any media source, let alone a breakfast show, would dare report something like this.

    London • Since Nov 2006 • 1027 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Anyone game to concoct a cricket-and-crime metaphor?

    "hat-trick" seems a bit too positive really. And you don't lose the actual wickets one at a time, once one goes, you're out.

    Still, stupid policy, why should the sporting analogy make sense? So I propose:

    The Garth McVicar "Three rubs of the cricket ball on your crotch and you're masturbating" crime policy.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • James Green,

    Does any one else find it a suspicious coincidence that the Sensible Sestencing Trust and the Sunday Star Times have the same initials and a similar love for ... ?

    Limerick, Ireland • Since Nov 2006 • 703 posts Report Reply

  • MikeE,

    What always worries me is this talk of Mandatory Minimum Sentancing, and we all know how that ended up in the USA, with it being used on pot smokers - who ended upw ith worse sentances than rapists and child abusers.

    Washington DC • Since Nov 2006 • 138 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    The two things I dislike most about the Sensible Sentencing Trust:

    1/ The way McVicar ruthlessly re-traumatises the victims of crime to keep the torch of vengeance glowing bright so he can showcase them.

    2/ The way the Sensible Sentencing Trust objectifies criminals as some sort of sub-species, a Hogarthian unter-menschen beyond redemption and for whom no punishment is enough.

    Pyschologically, I understand how its way easier to hate an object than a person, but the outcomes of such a mindset are now well documented - and McVicar clearly exhibits all the symptoms.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2217 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    Whilst not as all-encompassing as the US 3-strikes, reading the SSTs cut of the possible law, you can still see some pretty extreme outcomes:
    - Robbing a dairy with a gun (Commission of a crime while using a firearm) seeing you put away for 25 years.
    - Assault with intent to injure - put away for 25 years.

    Seems a bit over the top to me. Perhaps we need stronger direct sentencing guidelines for serious crimes where there is prior record but the mechanisms are already there and I'm not convinced they're under utilised.

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Eleanor,

    objectifies criminals as some sort of sub-species, a Hogarthian unter-menschen beyond redemption and for whom no punishment is enough.

    Yes and this explains the two-faced attitude reserved for the tagger-stabber, a violent offender who committed murder, but who (God forbid!) is someone that Garth can actually relate to.

    wellington • Since May 2007 • 81 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    1/ The way McVicar ruthlessly re-traumatises the victims of crime to keep the torch of vengeance glowing bright so he can showcase them.

    Sort of agree with you. Tom. Then again, McVicar (and Greg O'Connor and King) are all out there trying to put their spin out there, and not being particularly scrupulous about the emotional buttons they push to do it. What's the media's excuse for letting them all do it with remarkably little scrutiny? If I want to read raw press releases, that's what Scoop is for.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    BTW, if want to talk about "re-traumatis[ing] victims"... IMO, media outlets should be ashamed of their coverage of the funerals of those who died in the Mangataepopo River tragedy. A leering intrusion on grieving families covered in a canting sauce of 'human interest'.

    Then again, I may be making the foolish assumption that shame is an emotion that gets you work in a media culture where 'if it bleeds, it leads' is the only commandment.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    At the risk of being insensitive, the whole reaction of the Elim church people has seriously creeped me out. Is it just me, or is treating the death of your children primarily as some sort of test from God just further proof that all fundies of whatever religious persuasion have a tendency towards being death cults?

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2217 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    At the risk of being insensitive, the whole reaction of the Elim church people has seriously creeped me out. Is it just me, or is treating the death of your children primarily as some sort of test from God just further proof that all fundies of whatever religious persuasion have a tendency towards being death cults?

    I'd rather that than watch the bereaved screaming for someone, anyone to blame.

    God can cop this one, given there doesn't seem to be any conceivable way to blame it on Bebo.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Beard,

    a Hogarthian unter-menschen beyond redemption

    Funny, that's the image that always springs to mind when I think of Garth McVicar.

    And after a brilliant piece of "give 'em enough rope" interviewing from Steve Braunias some time ago, I propose a ban on the use of the words "sensible" and McVicar in the same sentence.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1040 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    Emma: As anyone who watches to much of the Discovery Channel knows, disasters are a number of connected mistakes and events coming together at the worst possible moment. It seems to me that there are some questions to be asked over this tragedy. Immediately giving the adventure centre the Graham Henry certificate of Immediate Confidence is as much a mistake as seeking to blame the blameless.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2217 posts Report Reply

  • dc_red,

    At the risk of being insensitive, the whole reaction of the Elim church people has seriously creeped me out. Is it just me, or is treating the death of your children primarily as some sort of test from God just further proof that all fundies of whatever religious persuasion have a tendency towards being death cults?

    No, it's not just you, Tom. Let alone giving front-page credence to one survivor's belief that a deity personally intervened to suspend the laws of nature in order to save him (while neglecting to do the same for his mates and instructor). It's one thing for a survivor to think this. It's another for 'serious' media outlets to lend it respectability.

    Oil Patch, Alberta • Since Nov 2006 • 706 posts Report Reply

  • Mikaere Curtis,

    Is it just me, or is treating the death of your children primarily as some sort of test from God just further proof that all fundies of whatever religious persuasion have a tendency towards being death cults?

    I put it down to some kind of tragic dissonance reduction. i.e. "I love my child. I love God. God took my child away *disonnance* => God must be testing me."

    Any other conclusion could result in a loss of faith, or the belief that there was something wrong with your child - neither of which are even remotely palatable.

    Tamaki Makaurau • Since Nov 2006 • 528 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    she's got a pass to say and think what she likes

    But I don't think we should take much notice. If a tragedy like that happens to you, it'll colour your views and remove any chance of a rational response. If my family were eaten by tigers escaping from a zoo, I'd want all dangerous wild animals banned.

    I'm of the view that any increase in violent crime that isn't made up my the media is actually the *result* of harsher sentences (since the 2002 Sentencing Act, for instance). There are more people in jail, and more people in the community who've been in jail - sentenced for minor crimes, out in a few years or months as embittered violent criminals.

    I'd go completely the opposite way to the SST (criminals themselves, they stole my fax paper) by making jail sentences open only to violent crime and the most heinous dishonesty.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Grant McDougall,

    but telling a hall full of people gathered around their belief that crime is spiralling out of control that crime is in fact falling is never going to go down well.

    It's a pity these drop-kicks can't simply go to the Statistics NZ website and have a nosey at the crime figures. If they did, they'd see that the clear, on-going trend is that, overall, crime has dropped. It's that simple.

    Dunedin • Since Dec 2006 • 760 posts Report Reply

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