Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: "Orderly transition" in #Egypt

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  • nzlemming, in reply to Simon Grigg,

    between the three phones that you always carry

    And even kiwi kids often carry two or three, depending on which carrier has the cheapest texts this week.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2937 posts Report Reply

  • Neil Morrison, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Like this, it seems almost reassuring.

    That millitary-industrial complex comes in handy from time to time.

    I'm a bit skeptical about that article's claim that "US hopes are solidifying around the reformist Mohamed ElBaradei". That would be a bit prematutre and Obama looks to be taking his lead from what's going on in Egypt and not picking winners at this point at least.

    Since Nov 2006 • 932 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Simon Grigg,

    Facebook and Twitter (and I think he threw Wikileaks into that which is another whole argument that I don't want to begin) have done more for democracy in the Middle East than a ten year trillion dollar war.

    Which is what they said about fax machines and the Berlin Wall

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2937 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Grigg, in reply to Simon Grigg,

    I think we covered that further up the thread. It serves both purposes of course but the removal of a primary organisational platform is obviously pretty crucial to the regime..

    Replying to my own post, I'm rethinking this a bit. In Iran, Indonesia and Thailand the power of FB, IM and Twitter totally shocked the establishment.

    They shook the entrenched power-elite who simply had no idea what was no in the hands of those they supposedly dominated. In Thailand the powers were initially bemused at how the Red Shirts were able to move rapidly from one spot to the next seemingly almost instantaneously. It took a moment to sink in.

    I'm guessing the shock waves just hit Cairo.

    Whether the internet block was a reaction to this or not, or an attempt to simply cover-up a more violent crackdown which has yet to come, I'm not sure.

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3284 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Al Jazeera's Dan Nolan tweets:

    Down in Tahrir the crowds chant "The army, the people are one" Some soldiers reply "We are with u we are with u" Amazing scenes!!!

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    More amusing local coverage. Stuff reports a couple of Kiwis in Cairo are fleeing the city and 'braving the Egyptian desert' to get to Hurghada.
    Hurghada is a beach resort accessible via a massive six lane motorway. It's a little like someone from Auckland 'braving the wilderness' by fleeing to Hamilton.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 927 posts Report Reply

  • recordari,

    Speaking of not so amusing local coverage, what’s this got to do with the price of petrol? Oh that.

    And from the internal memo;

    All headlines must contain the acronym ’RWC’, SBW, or the words Rugby, All Blacks or Richie McCaw.

    First person to link the citizen initiated democratic uprising in Egypt with the RWC gets a pony.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Alex Coleman,

    Interesting discussion here:

    http://www.al-bab.com/blog/2011/blog1102c.htm

    introduced thusly....

    “Please use my real name Omar from now on—we have nothing left to hide anymore”

    That is how the man I was calling Yousry started his remarkable interview ith me a few hours ago. At a point in our conversation he also said “ Please tell Mubarak we do not need his damn internet for the peoples revolution.”

    Yousry is Omar. A dear friend. An extremely articulate Egyptian and in my haze filled 140 character days, a steady voice of reason and immense perspective. Every conversation I have had with him expresses the nuance, the complexity and the immensity of the day’s events like no news broadcast can. At 30 he is as old as the Mubarak regime. He is married. His wife will join him tomorrow for what should really be called the Million man and woman march. He was born in Cairo and studied in the US briefly before moving back and working for an oil company. He comes from a rich family as does his wife.

    Omar (formerly Yousry) is the most articulate ordinary Egyptian I know because he does not know how to talk in soundbites and because he like millions of others is in danger of losing the country he loves so much and the only home he has ever really known.

    I spoke to Omar at 9:30 pm Cairo time. A few hours later a nation of 80 million people has been successfully wiped off the worldwide web...

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 247 posts Report Reply

  • Andre Alessi, in reply to Danyl Mclauchlan,

    It’s a little like someone from Auckland ‘braving the wilderness’ by fleeing to Hamilton.

    Well to be fair, Drury is a hellhole.

    Devonport, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 864 posts Report Reply

  • Glenn Pearce,

    More amusing local coverage. Stuff reports a couple of Kiwis in Cairo are fleeing the city and 'braving the Egyptian desert' to get to Hurghada.
    Hurghada is a beach resort accessible via a massive six lane motorway. It's a little like someone from Auckland 'braving the wilderness' by fleeing to Hamilton.

    Actually, I'd say you'd have to be pretty desparate to be fleeing to Hurghada. #dreadfulplace

    Auckland • Since Feb 2007 • 504 posts Report Reply

  • Andre Alessi,

    As John Cole over at Balloon Juice points out:

    It’s kind of funny watching how the media operates- if anything the protests in Egypt are increasing and reaching a critical mass, yet CNN, which had breathless round the clock coverage for the past week, has dropped the story like a prom dress in favor of the imminent MASSIVE ONCE IN A CENTURY SO BAD THEY ARE FREAKING OUT IN CHICAGO snow storm.

    My advice to pretty white girls- stay inside. If you get abducted today, you don’t have a chance.

    Devonport, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 864 posts Report Reply

  • recordari, in reply to Andre Alessi,

    Well to be fair, Drury is a hellhole.

    And Longswamp is, well a swamp.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Andre Alessi,

    Also via Balloon Juice, Glenn Beck goes insane. Again:

    “I believe that I can make a case in the end that there are three powers that you will see really emerge. One, a Muslim caliphate that controls the Mideast and parts of Europe. Two, China, that will control Asia, the southern half of Africa, part of the Middle East, Australia, maybe New Zealand, and God only knows what else. And Russia, which will control all of the old former Soviet Union bloc, plus maybe the Netherlands. I’m not really sure. But their strong arm is coming. That leaves us and South America. What happens to us?”

    Devonport, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 864 posts Report Reply

  • recordari, in reply to Andre Alessi,

    But their strong arm is coming. That leaves us and South America. What happens to us?”

    Hasn't he heard of the BRIC? That's what happens to 'US'. They shit a BRIC, to coin a phrase.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Christiaan,

    So how do we build an internet that can't be so easily shut down?

    Portugal • Since Dec 2006 • 121 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite, in reply to Andre Alessi,

    There’s a lot of crazy out there. Glenn Beck’s one guy, but he has an audience – check out this guy's ravings.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 982 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Andre Alessi,

    Also via Balloon Juice, Glenn Beck goes insane. Again:

    Protocols of the Elders of Zion/Mecca/Beijing/Moscow... what next?

    And it's official - Mubarak has decided to throw in the towel. And whoever it was who made all the videos on Stuff.co.nz auto-play - you will be strapped down in a chair and made to listen to The Transformed Man.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5446 posts Report Reply

  • Neil Morrison,

    Since Nov 2006 • 932 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    So how do we build an internet that can't be so easily shut down?

    I was thinking about that. It depends on your purpose, but a peer network would be a lot harder - you'd actually need to shut off electricity, and even then solar powered routers could keep cranking on for days, or indefinitely even.

    They'd still be able to shut the international pipes down easily, but local internets could stay up and span cities quite easily.

    There are many plans for such networks, but they've never really taken off, mainly because everyone wants "The Internet" not "An internet". I expect lots of private WANs have stayed up in Egypt, though.

    The other problem with an attack-resilient internet is that even though the basic ability to deliver internet traffic can theoretically reroute through any connections that still exist, the services people want to use tend to reside in centralized locations, like server banks. Disconnect these and people are back to email. Take out the main domain name servers, and we're back to trying to go off raw IP addresses. Only IT geeks will be still connected.

    Also, while the fully decentralized network ideas can work well in theory, they've never really been exposed to malicious attempts to take them down. I expect they could be killed with DOS attacks quite easily by infiltrators. Massively distributed WiFi could be drowned out by a powerful signal in the same bands that WiFi operates. I'm fairly sure dictators tend to have investigated these things, reputedly Pakistan's Musharraf is almost always in a cone of wireless white noise, to prevent assassination via remote triggering of IEDs.

    Ultimately, whilst "The Internet" is theoretically decentralized, it never has been in reality.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Christiaan,

    Mesh network using Bluetooth/WiFi to relay messages between devices. Intrinsically low bandwidth, but hard to disrupt.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    The Protocols of the Elder Ones of R'lyeh? Why choose a lesser evil after all?

    Semirelevantly, this vid which may add to the horror or the perverse pleasure of the Stuffoids:

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 982 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F, in reply to nzlemming,

    And even kiwi kids often carry two or three, depending on which carrier has the cheapest texts this week.

    Heck, I knew plenty of friends in highschool with a Telecom cell for $10 TXT and a Vodafone for free weekends and that's ten years ago now...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1611 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd, in reply to Sam F,

    Hence the word "bitextual."

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F, in reply to Stephen Judd,

    Hence the word "bitextual."

    By contrast I must be deeply vanilla - same number and SIM since 2001!

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1611 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    This pours cold water on the influence of internet and smartphones and Al Jazeera.

    Excerpt:

    O: Tayyib good. But honestly I mean 40 % of this country is living below the poverty line and a large chunk above that is barely surviving and then you have middle class doctors and lawyers etc and then you have you know rich people like me yaani…I mean it is true that cell phone penetration has improved very much…you know they even say that maybe 60 million have cellphones…you know…but its like those basic yaani really basic mobiles…nothing fancy…no internet bullshit for example…I can tell you that the majority of Egyptians have no idea what Facebook is or what Twitter is! I mean you ask me this everyday—but its true yaani…and look at this… a very basic mobile is from 180 Egyptian pounds…a fancy internet capable phone like an Iphone and that Droid thing or the blackberry cost around 3000 pounds…and I will just talk about the so called middle class for a second…before revolution they said they would increase the minimum wage to 1200 pounds a month…right now it is about 800 pounds…800 pounds to feed a family of 4 maybe more? And then you go and buy an internet enabled phone which costs more than 3 months of your salary?.

    Me: So how and why is this whole narrative evolving?

    O: You mean all this internet stuff…well before he shut us out on Thursday…there was vibrant communication between a certain and very small class of society in terms of relative numbers…this is the class of people who have ALWAYS been absent and apathetic from the suffering of the Egyptian majority…the poor people…you know that was good…so maybe a little bit through twitter and all the apathetic students and professional class started communicating for the first time…

    Me: True..I have been saying that---someone in Zamalek is not tweeting at a Zabaleen you know…they tweet to each other…in their nice apartments with AC and stuff…

    O: yes true…but I know it played a good role for maybe the first day and half of Thursday…but if you are saying that it is pivotal to the revolution or the lifeline of the revolution then you are not doing justice to Egyptian people, man or even to the functionality of this specific tool…its like calling a hammer a screwdriver and this is a huge danger for the future…because in other Arab countries for example…you will misinform people about this twitter/Facebook tool—you will overstate its importance…and misguide people who want change in other places and its biggest weakness is that it can be cut off—and you are saying Mubarak is doing that even more tonight, right…so there you have it…if anything dictators like Mubarak use all the publicity about this twitter nonsense to say OK lets cut off the internet…Talking about tweeting all the fucking time gives him the perfect excuse for shutting off the internet even though the majority of Egyptians would not be online even if there was a f-ing internet…

    Me: I know I have been saying that…some of the greatest revolutions in history happened before the internet…and 4 days now after he cut you guys all off…well 99% of you all off anyway…it grew bigger…more people…and they were not tweeted to come there…

    O: Yes…listen…its not about all this at all. It is one tool…some people can use it and they should and its great! But our bigger tools are posters, fliers, pamphlets, the shoes on our fucking feet man! If someone wakes up in Cairo tomorrow after having slept through the last 6 days…and don’t know where to go…they just need to walk on the street Parvez…and follow everyone else…But let me say this…for educated kids like me atleast…we can communicate faster and more effectively than our parents ever could right? Our parents generation was more apathetic I feel…so yes we can communicate…but WE HAVE SOMETHING TO COMMUNICATE ABOUT…the peoples revolution! And in any case this concern of people sending messages to the outside world is secondary…we don’t think it is our function to report this to the world…as an Egyptian citizen protesting everyday…that’s not my job…reporters can do that…you can do it who talks to me everyday…we need to stay focused on what we need to do inside the country…our weapon is not social networking and email…our weapon is our focus on what we know needs to be changed…

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

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