Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Press Play > Budget

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  • Danielle, in reply to Fooman,

    Well, the drip feed nature of student loan draw downs makes this unlikely.

    Yeah, that's basically impossible. It's not like American student loans which arrive in a lump sum with no strings attached. NZ student loans pay the course fees directly to the institution and the $1000 lump sum is as much as you can get at once.

    (I'm down to $24,000! And I've only had the loan since... 1992. I'm a winner.)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3656 posts Report Reply

  • Andrew C, in reply to Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    Im no economist, so im getting a little lost here. But how is what you talk about any different to any other form of transaction? If I sell horses and I sell a horse and make a profit, I am taxed on that profit, and the net profit is thus less than a horse sells for, so I am now in a worse of position than before I sold the horse, so I lose out, so ...?

    You had a 300k house and sold it for a profit and after tax you can only buy a 285k house. But you only paid 200k, so you're still winning, aren't you?

    Auckland • Since May 2008 • 146 posts Report Reply

  • NBH, in reply to Andrew C,

    You had a 300k house and sold it for a profit and after tax you can only buy a 285k house. But you only paid 200k, so you're still winning, aren't you?

    Andrew - I'm not Lucy, but I believe that her point is that due to inflation in the market, the $285K house today is the equivalent in terms of quality to, say, a $180K house back when you bought your original house. So becuase of tax you've effectively lost 10% of housing quality (assuming a perfect market etc. etc.). This is important for the family home, because we actually 'use' that home to live in, rather than just treating it as a tradeable investment like shares.

    OTOH, if you trade horses as an investment, you're purchasing them and then selling them without trying to buy an equivalent quality horse. The notional drop in quality in terms of the sort of horse you can buy doesn't matter in and of itself, because you aren't actually using the horse for anything - it's just a unit of value, so all that matters is the straight $$ involved.

    Apologies if I've misinterpreted your argument Lucy!

    Wellington • Since Oct 2008 • 92 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    Well there is a simple genuis in raising the tax levels on those who can afford it. o.k. Let's stop this bullshit about where the money is. And there have been some considered and detailed analysis on printing money and the stimulus packages of america had a genuis in them that prevented the whole place going down the toilet. It's time to share the burdon of this problem not flatten the poor again and again.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    Danielle/Fooman: yeah I figured it wasn't easy - it wouldn't stop someone borrowing more than they need every year and using the extra to pay off some of the previous year's loan I guess

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2152 posts Report Reply

  • Richard Aston,

    On a tangential note - I notice in the Vote Internal Affairs section of the budget the amounts for Former Governors-General, $435,000 annuities and Former Prime Ministers $430,000 annuities and domestic travel . That's $860 grand to former leaders, Why? I mean they are not going to be short of money, work offers or speakers fees.

    I also hear from a good source that Helen Clark still uses the above fund when she comes back to NZ or flies her husband to New York.

    Yeah yeah I know its not a lot of money but ....just saying

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 498 posts Report Reply

  • merc, in reply to Richard Aston,

    Welcome to Old Feudal Land, like New Zealand, but with cleaner serfs and happier ex-leaders.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • TracyMac, in reply to DexterX,

    The tax base "needs" to expand in response to a growing economy?

    At what point - with more sales taxes that disproptionally affect poorer households? When there is economic growth but no inflation so that goods and service prices remain relatively static? (Yes, it happens, but not most of the time) When the economy is just going to keep growing and growing and growing? (Not.)

    Canberra, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 477 posts Report Reply

  • TracyMac, in reply to Richard Aston,

    Why wouldn't she, if that fund is there for the use of former PMs? I believe Bolger is the one who's hammered it the most (can't be bothered looking it up right now)

    Sure, it might be a stupid benefit, but why single out Clark particularly?

    Canberra, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 477 posts Report Reply

  • Richard Aston, in reply to TracyMac,

    Didn't mean to single out Clark in particular, hell I voted for her, its just that's the only story I knew of . I just struggle to understand why someone like, say Helen Clark who must be on a huge income would need to dip into a NZ tax payer fund for travel expenses , I mean couldn't the UN pay for those? Its not about her per se just the principle of funding ex prime ministers and Governor generals, I mean whats the rationale behind that.
    Its just seems in-congruent when Bill English is calling for austerity, balancing the books etc.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 498 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • DexterX, in reply to TracyMac,

    but

    That is not it.

    Consider the last three years - the increase of GST, the tax cuts to the well off, have had a negative effect and actually contributed IMO to shrinking the economy and the ability to provide employment, particularly to younger people.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1194 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade, in reply to merc,

    It's funny the change of thinking on tech teachers, they were up to very recently looking for more across schools and people were training for these positions. It's a very sad approach to education, very stifling.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • TracyMac, in reply to Richard Aston,

    Fair enough re Clark. I've been trying to hunt down the figures from a quick Google, but the most recent I could find is 2006 (when it was Bolger and Shipley).

    But I completely agree - they get a decent pension, and I think if they want to be globetrotters after they are out of office, they can pay their own way.

    Canberra, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 477 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Richard Aston,

    whats the rationale behind that

    there's no sensible justification this century.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16669 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Jeremy Eade,

    It’s a very sad approach to education, very stifling.

    And - very stupid…a lot of school pupils simply dont get the chance for hands-on learning, whether using tools, being enabled to do elementary cookery/sewing/metalwork – whatever. Tech teachers need to be supplemented, not wiped out.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to Richard Aston,

    I notice in the Vote Internal Affairs section of the budget the amounts for Former Governors-General, $435,000 annuities and Former Prime Ministers $430,000 annuities and domestic travel . That’s $860 grand to former leaders, Why? I mean they are not going to be short of money, work offers or speakers fees.

    I did warn everyone to submit on the Members of Parliament (Remuneration and Services) Bill, currently at Select Committee. It re-legislates for this to happen.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3004 posts Report Reply

  • merc, in reply to Jeremy Eade,

    It's Bill's way of showing Gerry (ex woodwork teacher?) who is boss. I can never forget that tv shot of Bill leaving the building having been ousted, it was degrading. I can also remember Bill saying to some Southland cohorts..."that's OK it's only 200 million dollars..."
    /cursed with retentive memory/
    So yeah Bill has a few axes to grind and I seem to recall education rejig was his way back into cabinet many years ago. Double plus good Bill because I reckon you have given them pesky teacher unions good reason to strike.
    Also, and I don't wish this on Christchurch, but Bill, as you divie up the EQ spoils, erm monies, have you factored in the possibility of another large quake?
    Because your John Fromm, rain follows the plough-like optimism as to how you are going to fund NatActMPHair guy ideology would be double plus screwed if you don't get much money for our assets, and there is another series of large tremors.
    Ass meet wind naked.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Jeremy Eade,

    Edgy caution...

    It’s a very sad approach to education, very stifling.

    Wait till they realise that all they need to do is leave the kids with a stack of Teach-Yourself-DVDs and access to a few relevant websites, plus a security guard to keep an eye on them, they'll save a fortune!
    I can only assume the current Government is hellbent on keeping future generations thick and poor so they won't realise the legacy that's been foisted upon them....

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 4960 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe,

    I always find Bill English's day-after-the-Budget-breakfast comments revealing for the big picture. National is going to dig up a surplus it seems:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/budget-2012/6985706/English-Drill-for-success

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to merc,

    but Bill, as you divie up the EQ spoils, erm monies

    The quakes have been a windfall in economic growth terms for National when you look at the global economy unravelling again. Key had best hope the silly peasants down south do not start revolting about the crumbs they are being fed. Oh, I know: let them eat cake, put up a cheap stadium and hold a Cera fun day every month or two.

    Meanwhile the real help needed by many residents is the Government to use its legal muscle to make insurers honour their contracts with the little guy, businesses and residents alike.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Hebe,

    The quakes have been a windfall in economic growth terms for National

    not yet, apparently.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16669 posts Report Reply

  • merc, in reply to Hebe,

    It appears to me that National are banking on the money for the rebuild as some sort of way of magic-ing away their contemptible mismanagement of our finances.
    Born to rule, fail to serve.
    It also appears to me that there is nothing on this planet that we, the people, can do about their brazen, craven /raps/ ineptitude. Nothing, refer to Bill openly lying to Parliament, admission of guesswork, inflation of forecasts, intimidating Treasury, mocking our democracy, mocking our right to protest.
    My workmate said that every three years we get to vote a have a dictatorship for a further three years. He was not joking.
    Really, there is nothing we can do, and wait before you say there is, I shall refer you to the reason given as to why they didn't need to run RONS through cost benefit analysis... because we have a mandate.
    Can't argue with that logic.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Hebe,

    put up a cheap stadium and hold a Cera fun day every month or two.

    Yep. Working really well for Done-in-Eden - and I understand the lawsuits are underway for Invercargill?
    What the 'windfall in economic growth" actually MEANS south (especially in CHCHCH) I have no idea- it hasnt happened.

    You're right Hebe- any muscled insurance company (I'm not sure there IS any) whether organised/owned by government
    0r - gasp! - by concerned ANZ-dedicated BUSiNESSES
    would do really well-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Sacha,

    not yet, apparently.

    No, but serendipitous timing for the growth to really start feeding through to voters around New Zealand to ensure a third term. A lot of the insurance money from the CBD is leaving the city and will spread out around New Zealand.
    BTW, I hear of wise commercial heads here speaking of the real time-frame for the rebuild being in the order of 50 years.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2607 posts Report Reply

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