Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: So far from trivial

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  • giovanni tiso,

    giovanni, that sounds like you're implying that women get screwed, and men screw. That women are passive sexually. That's not really an idea I can get on board with. In a lesbian relationship, who's doing the screwing.

    We can try to subvert it, I'm all for it, but even in homosexual relationships the active participant is sometimes referred to as the male (witness that wonderful exchange in The Torch Song Trilogy - "What do you do?" (by which he meant what's you job or occupation) "I'm the Woman").

    To add to the Dale Spender argument, there are those who believe that homophobia (applied to gay males) is really an extension of mysoginy and that they are both a form of loathing of the passive sexual position. And again I am referring to the crude, traditional way of conceiving the heterosexual male as being the active participant and reducing sex as penetration by the penis. The person I heard make the argument (Piergiorgio Paterlini) pointed out that in spite of centuries of homophobia "fucking somebody in the ass" still means something positive, ie getting your own way.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Once again, discourse doing wonders for Russell's google hits...

    You got it. I had to go and check, and the number of people finding us on pr0n searches actually seems to have fallen away -- although the "Hard" in Hard News will always haul in a few.

    My favourite search term for this month is: "plastic travel bong"

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Jill Reade,

    You have every right here to take issue with that, but I really do find your characterisation of it, and particularly the assumption that I'd exercised some undue power in simply clarifying the context, both extreme and unfair.

    .


    I don't think you were deliberately exercising any power at all . I would not have credited you with being one of the "good guys" if I thought otherwise. I think it is effectively there none the less.

    To me the piece read that it was an embarrassing program because she had very limited news reading skills (fine) and any way her breasts are ugly (not fine by me). I have no problem with the observation that as a news program it is dire and that if the appearance of the reader is not to your taste then there will be no reason for watching it. That is different from very personal comments.

    The whole program does reinforce that thing of what you look like is more important than what you do. The reader might not be doing suff that everybody respects but she still deserves to be treated with respect.

    Since Jun 2007 • 20 posts Report Reply

  • Jill Reade,

    Still there. Just take forever to get my thoughts in line and I do have to go soon. . I'm really not trying to have a go at you either. This is something we are all in together. I don't think any of us are perfect but if we want a way out we have to really be prepared to look at the hard stuff. This comment of yours is a very small subset of other thinking that is really good and to that extent is unfair to focus on.

    Since Jun 2007 • 20 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    they are both a form of loathing of the passive sexual position

    I guess that goes back to Roman practice, where age gender and social status combine to dictate what kind of sexual roles are allowable for a person.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    the number of people finding us on pr0n searches actually seems to have fallen away

    I'll get right on that.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • Jill Reade,

    Emma, I don't have time to follow Deborah's link so don't know if I will contradict it. What I was taught was that someone had actually done a count on this stuff. I think you are right about there being an aspect of just sexuality in it. But the fact that the crunch point of the relationship between men and women becomes a point of abuse also is interesting in itself I think.

    Since Jun 2007 • 20 posts Report Reply

  • st ephen,

    Agreed. Being a pussy isn't as bad as being a cunt, either.

    Emma - just in case you find yourself picking a fight with some Mongrel Mob-type one day... Pussy is worse than cunt.
    The latter works as a term of endearment, eg. someone has drunk all your beer and borrowed your car but you can't help admiring their audacity. The former can only be interpreted as a direct challenge to one's masculinity.
    Please be careful out there... :-)

    dunedin • Since Jul 2008 • 254 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah,

    Pussy is worse than cunt.

    That possibly depends on who you're talking to. I still find the latter word so offensive that I can't bring myself to type it.

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1447 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    The reader might not be doing suff that everybody respects but she still deserves to be treated with respect.

    She's screaming for us to look at her breasts. Are we (men, women and children) not allowed to say what we think of said breasts? How would that be respectful and not, say, patronising or prudish?

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    I still find the latter word so offensive that I can't bring myself to type it.

    Out of (perhaps limited) interest, being that thing that you cannot type in Italian simply means you're a good looking woman. It's even been made masculine (figo, as opposed to figa) to mean a good-looking man. And you can use either in pretty much in any sort of company (okay, perhaps not the Pope).

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Pussy is worse than cunt.

    That possibly depends on who you're talking to.

    Indeed. I have an English friend who finds 'twat' much more offensive than either of those, while I find just the sound of the word sort of silly and amusing.

    Emma - just in case you find yourself picking a fight with some Mongrel Mob-type one day... Pussy is worse than cunt.

    61s down my way, dude. Suffice it to say I've done my fair share of time in gang houses. I've heard both used jokingly, affectionately, and both used offensively. The tone and circumstance seems to matter more than the word.

    I think you are right about there being an aspect of just sexuality in it.

    Thinking on this harder, I think it's not so much sexuality in and of itself, but sexuality (natural, enjoyable) portrayed as something dirty, degrading and disgusting.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • Jill Reade,

    She's screaming for us to look at her breasts. Are we (men, women and children) not allowed to say what we think of said breasts? How would that be respectful and not, say, patronising or prudish?

    Well, revolutionary though it might be we could just accept that we all have these bits that work in both wonderful and functional ways and get over it and not denigrate or elevate each other on the basis of what we look like instead of how we behave and what we are. But hey that would be detroying whole industries and we would have to find other ways of making ourselves feel better rather than puting somebody else down. Tony Vietch up to now has had lots of money and kudos that he wouldn't have had despite however much hard work if he didn't have the appearance. But it turns out to be just an appearance doesn't it. Even Holmes said so.

    Since Jun 2007 • 20 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    Funny you should mention "twat"

    Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Well, revolutionary though it might be we could just accept that we all have these bits that work in both wonderful and functional ways and get over it and not denigrate or elevate each other on the basis of what we look like instead of how we behave and what we are.

    But isn't part of the point with Lisa Lewis that we're not commenting on her actual bits, but on her decision to have those bits cosmetically altered to meet market expectations? I really did think they looked sore and overstuffed, which presumably wasn't the desired outcome.

    I should say I have no quarrel with Ms Lewis. She has a kid to raise and rent to pay, like the rest of us. It's just that the show is 10 minutes of my life I'll never get back.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Yamis,

    Jill, Lisa Lewis is a female model.

    She WANTS people to look at her, judge her appearance and then make some money out of it. THAT is how she is trying to make a buck. In the same way that a playboy centre-fold wants men (and possibly women) to ogle at her breasts and other parts and hopefully like them so she can get more work presumably. Thats WHY people are watching the tv show and buying the mags and dvds, and going to the strip club, and cruising k-rd at certain hours.

    Saying the news reading is hopeless and saying the breasts are ugly are BOTH personal opinions. You just seem to take offence to one and not the other for some reason. I am a secondary school teacher, I am generally more insulted by students criticising the way a lesson is run or something I said far more than a cheap shot about my hair or clothes (and yeah, these days you get it all).

    Anyway, on the curse words.

    When I was in Korea I knew many North Americans as friends and colleagues. They were all surprised that we use the word 'cunt' to describe men. To them it is the ultimate insult to a women. I don't remember even hearing it used as a word to describe women in NZ before that point.

    These days it has become a form of endearment amongst many males as somebody has stated already. I think we over analyse some things way the fuck too much at times. Yours truly certainly guilty of it at times.

    Since Nov 2006 • 903 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    But isn't part of the point with Lisa Lewis that we're not commenting on her actual bits,

    But she's displaying those bits to entice viewers to tune in. I've seen the show too (Grand Opening Night) and there is no other reason for the show's existence other than to pander to the prurience of a certain sector of the TV audience.

    Even so, I'd be very surprised if anyone was watching it regularly.

    Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report Reply

  • Yamis,

    And I go to stuff.co.nz and find an example immediately without even looking for one.

    What exactly is Ana Ivanovic (world womens tennis number 1) trying to trade on here? I don't see a tennis racket anywhere. She's given the green light for people to discuss her physical appearance as she is attempting to boost her profile, and bank account along with it.

    http://www.faniq.com/blog/Ana-Ivanovic-Photos-From-August-FHM-UK-Magazine-Blog-10080

    Since Nov 2006 • 903 posts Report Reply

  • Jill Reade,

    the fact that anyone is making a

    decision to have those bits cosmetically altered to meet market expectations?

    is the good discussion to be having. But sadly, as it really gets interesting I really have to go.

    It's really normal (as in lotsof people do it ) to comment on other's appearance. Because it's "normal" it's the stuff we need to think about. "Normal" ie what most people do is what gives us the society we've got at any one time. Abusers and all.

    Since Jun 2007 • 20 posts Report Reply

  • Yamis,

    Isn't it human instinct to find a mate based on a level of physical attraction?

    I don't argue that for some people it's more important than others but even for people at the lower end of the scale there is still surely some consideration of the other persons appearance.

    Even relatively primitive cultures (ie. the one found in the Amazon recently) 'decorated' males and females differently. I don't think they get the entertainment channel on SKY.

    Since Nov 2006 • 903 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Well, revolutionary though it might be we could just accept that we all have these bits that work in both wonderful and functional ways and get over it and not denigrate or elevate each other on the basis of what we look like instead of how we behave and what we are.

    She wasn't giving a lecture on the works of Nadine Gordimer at the Sorbonne, she was reading the news naked on the telly. Pausing to consider the context would surely be helpful before directing one's squire to fetch the high horse.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Shep Cheyenne,

    In our kulture where we have 'Supermodels' and reality TV shows about the lucrative 'profession' of modeling I can't condem her too much.

    It was all tasteful in bikinis and the like. It's purpose is another thing though.

    18-21 my sport was surfboats where the uniform was a pair of speedos worn in the style of a G-string & getting nude and taking photos was pretty normal (sober or drunk). We were young - if anyone would have given us cash for it I would have taken it too.

    Early 90s I knew a couple of guys who stripped, but that was too much for most of us & they were odd anyway.

    Since Oct 2007 • 927 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    She wasn't giving a lecture on the works of Nadine Gordimer at the Sorbonne . . .

    Dunno about Nadine Gordimer, but if she delivered a treatise on Foucault while in the nuddy she's be a shoo-in for an honorary doctorate.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    When I was in Korea I knew many North Americans as friends and colleagues. They were all surprised that we use the word 'cunt' to describe men. To them it is the ultimate insult to a women. I don't remember even hearing it used as a word to describe women in NZ before that point.

    These days it has become a form of endearment amongst many males as somebody has stated already. I think we over analyse some things way the fuck too much at times. Yours truly certainly guilty of it at times.

    I'm told that the Back of the Y guys went to their producers earlier this year to tell them the title of their proposed follow-up to The Devil Dared Me To.

    Which was ... Hard Cunts.

    Here in New Zealand, we understand that, in context, to be affectionate slang for risk-taking, mutually loyal males.

    The rest of the world? Not so much ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Dunno about Nadine Gordimer, but if she delivered a treatise on Foucault while in the nuddy she's be a shoo-in for an honorary doctorate.

    Only in France.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

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