Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Someone has to be accountable for this

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  • Sacha, in reply to Russell Brown,

    The rest of the editorial covers the aggressively secretive approach of the ATA when Computerworld sought information.

    Ah

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16279 posts Report Reply

  • TracyMac,

    @Rich, the trouble with SAP is that it's not just a big accounting package. It was originally a huge Plant Maintenance product, with the Financials as part of that. Now, of course, the Financials are much enhanced, and there are modules for HR, Sales, and Production Planning (encompassing, god help us, change management), and many many more.

    My personal view is to get best-of-breed solutions for each area with a view for ensuring they have integration functionality for the bits that need to be hooked up. Sure, that can add some cost to enterprise solutioneering, and it is nice to get good stuff that is already hooked together, but as far as I'm concerned (not being an SAP guru), SAP does everything more or less crappily. Maybe the PM component is good for physical plant, but my god the interface is shite and I can tell you that it doesn't cope with IT "assets" (which my organisation are trying to shoehorn in).

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 457 posts Report Reply

  • Neil Morrison,

    There appears to be one group of IT people saying a completely new system is required and another saying modified existing tools would be just as effective for less cost.

    I've got no specialist knowledge of the field so don't really know but isn't this the decision of the current council? They so it appears are voting for a new system.

    Since Nov 2006 • 932 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Neil Morrison,

    I’ve got no specialist knowledge of the field so don’t really know but isn’t this the decision of the current council? They so it appears are voting for a new system.

    Basically, Neil, the whole thing has been framed so as to make it appear to be the decision of the elected council, even thought it isn't. Got that?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18513 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Neil Morrison,

    isn't this the decision of the current council?

    No. As Russell has been saying, it has been foisted upon them. Notice the last clause of that Computerworld editorial:

    Either way, it looks as if Aucklanders will have to look to their new council for ICT direction and development and hope that body is not hamstrung by decisions now being made by unelected officials.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16279 posts Report Reply

  • Neil Morrison,

    So the council is voting for a very expensive computer system when they actually believe a cheaper approach is possible?

    Since Nov 2006 • 932 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Neil Morrison,

    There appears to be one group of IT people saying a completely new system is required and another saying modified existing tools would be just as effective for less cost.

    It's not quite that simple either. Please trust that experts like John Holley quoted in Orsman's piece do know what they're talking about.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16279 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Neil Morrison,

    is voting for

    Again, you seem to be under the impression they have a choice. Commitments made by the ATA are subsequently binding on the Council.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16279 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Neil Morrison,

    So the council is voting for a very expensive computer system when they actually believe a cheaper approach is possible?

    I think you're being disingenuous and I'm not going to further entertain you on the topic.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18513 posts Report Reply

  • Terry Baucher,

    I am a bit hacked off about the fuss over the RWC costs (much of which represents planned expenditure brought forward) when such a colossal clusterfuck has been allowed to happen. Maybe the rest of Auckland should send the bill to the good people of the Epsom electorate.

    Devonport • Since Nov 2008 • 85 posts Report Reply

  • Neil Morrison, in reply to ,

    This is a done deal,

    ok, I didn't know that. I thought there had been a transition system paid for and the new council got to make a final decision on the long term solution.

    There still seems to be disgreement amongst experts though about new system vs less costly options.

    Since Nov 2006 • 932 posts Report Reply

  • Neil Morrison, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I think I got two issues confused, the nature and cost of the new system and when people knew of the real cost, but I wasn't being disingenous.

    Since Nov 2006 • 932 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to TracyMac,

    So they should have picked the SAP implementation that looked the most up-to-date and usable (I know, strange concepts for SAP), and then used that one to enhance and build on.

    Exactly.
    As it is they are probably all getting new keyboards and monitors, oh and a cool new mousepad with a logo on it.

    Would it be too hard to network the existing databases then merge new data?
    Sounds like a mornings work.
    ;-)

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4613 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    so it appears are voting for a new system

    Ok I'm confused. So 6 of the 8 IT systems existing used SAP (and yes we use the stupid accounting program here too). But rather than upgrade one or more of those to cover the merged entity someone (not sure who) decided to implement a whole new software package ... and chose SAP.

    So they are replacing six SAPs and a couple of bystanders with one SAP?

    And I'm also confused by what the experts are saying here - is half a billion dollars a reasonable price? I get that large scale software implementations are harder than they seem but, really, half a billion?

    Even if all 8000 staff got new $3000 machines that's only 24 million! How much would the server rooms cost brand new $100 million would go a long way? I know, I know, the real cost is the software and the time to implement it but it's kind of a mind boggling number.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3221 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    Someone has to be accountable for this

    You don't honestly think that's remotely likely, do you?

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    Megatropolis Amalgamation and Ratepayer Rape Act

    I bet that'd make the ratepayers eyes water...

    Yes I know its no laughing matter.
    The anger and frustration at Hide 'n Key et al is palpable.
    More exposure on this issue please.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1157 posts Report Reply

  • Alex Coleman, in reply to Terry Baucher,

    Maybe the rest of Auckland should send the bill to the good people of the Epsom electorate.

    I was thinking that, but I'm not an Aucklander so not really my place to say.

    Still though, if public whinging sessions are to be held, Epsom might be a good venue; if only to let the locals know that they aren't quite as clever as they let themselves think they are.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 205 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    Sounds like a mornings work.
    ;-)

    I note the smiley and so forebear to rant :-D #morningswork #pffft

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 1768 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to TracyMac,

    Wow, I'm appalled about that news about SAP. Personally, I think it's a pile of crap - only fit for running German car factories - and the only reason to make a significant investment in SAP infrastructure would be to upgrade and consolidate your existing SAP environment

    So who does like SAP, then? The consultants?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18513 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Russell Brown,

    The consultants?

    Ka-ching!$

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16279 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    SAP is the anti-PAS...

    ...the trouble with SAP is that it’s not just a big accounting package. It was originally a huge Plant Maintenance product, with the Financials as part of that.

    ...has the Stuxnet worm been found in NZ yet?

    ...any Siemens controllers in our infrastructure?

    I found it a tad disquieting that Stuxnet had surfaced in Japan as long ago as October last year - more on that and possible implications for the earthquake/tsunami-compromised Nuclear reactors - here

    Will the last person to leave New Zealand
    turn Deloitte off

    But, this is what Deloitte do. They sell unnecessary SAP upgrades and deployments instead of encouraging reuse.

    I note that Mike Foley (Head of Information Services, Auckland Council) was headhunted by Deloitte to set up and run its customer relationship management practice in 2001 (till 2003).
    He is reported to subscribe to the "Plan for the worst, deliver the best" scenario - This skill set provides Foley an edge when dealing with a major part of his role as Watercare CIO — strategising for a disaster. Here's hoping he'll carry that over into the new job.... problem solved folks!

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 4555 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to nzlemming,

    :-D #morningswork #pffft

    More like "You finish your tea, I'll do it" ;-)

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4613 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    SAP is the anti-PAS…

    FKN LOL

    Will the last person to leave New Zealand
    turn Deloittes off

    Now that, Sir, deserves some kind of an award, maybe even a Deloitte Award.

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4613 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Withers,

    Much worse in my view was the way First Past the Post and the ward system resulted in 62.5% of all votes cast for the Council electing no one at all. All 20 Councilors were elected with a combined 37.5% of the vote. To me, this is a democratic disaster of epic proportions. But most people don't seem to care at all. Makes me wonder why they bothered to vote if they don't care if actually elects anyone. As for the money....well we all knew it was a scam. That was a given.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 280 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    …has the Stuxnet worm been found in NZ yet?

    …any Siemens controllers in our infrastructure?

    No, because a fat bloke in wellies (NZ’s concept of a plant controller) is immune to worms and viruses of that kind.

    (OK, I know Fonterra probably has a whole lot of cheese making high-tech going on).

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4361 posts Report Reply

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