from March, Copied SAP system cuts costs for Auckland Transport

from Sept last eyar... Supercity?s $60m-plus SAP system under scrutiny

I was predicting $400m or so (double the rumoured $200m), and I wasn't?

Yet?

I shudder to think at what they were operating '98 on.

You're otherwise right, though: the fact that this would end up costing massively more than predicted should be totally unsurprising to?

Christopher , I was working at IBM when the INCIS nightmare was on – the general consensus was too many layers of decision makers ? in the case of INCIS, Treasury and the various layers of Police. They didn?t seem to talk to each other, crossed over on?

I was at IRD (as well as running GOVIS) while the INCIS cockup was unravelling and we watched with interest. From the outside, it seemed that IBM proposed a system that, while ambitious for the time,?

Having a single system for a particular function across an organisation is a good thing, in terms of maintenance costs, training, flexible job skills?

I've worked at firms that use SAP, and it provides a workable, if clunky, way to enter expenses and timesheets, order stuff and do payroll – all those sort of functions. I'm prepared to believe it also?

Two points:

1.?

Quite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xNnRBksvOU&feature=related

...and as long as everyone
keeps up with the paperwork
what could possibly
go wrong?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eosrujtjJHA&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teufz17PqoY&feature=related

More than that, as Russell notes – and as Hide himself was at pains to point out along the way. The cabinet and especially the Nats' inner sanctum were an integral part of the decision-making (including appointing the ATA). And?

Not that it need be an either-or proposition..

so maybe quite a few people were wearing rose-tinted glasses, including the orginal proponents of reform.

But isn't this now all the hands of the new council? If they think?

A recent Treasury report looked at the cost of government agencies' back office functions and?

I don?t think ?shit happens? anywhere near covers this. They sidelined existing IT management and spent millions on consultants who told them to spend many more millions of dollars ? and they didn?t tell?

As is everyone who might have benefitted from that money being spent by Council on other activites. Should sound familiar to followers of national level politics too.

That was the original justification presented to decision-makers for approval, if I recall one of Russell's previous columns correctly.

Then starting from scratch was substituted. How, by whom and?

Ah

I've got no specialist knowledge of the field so don't really know but isn't this the decision of the current?

Basically, Neil, the whole thing has been framed so as to make it appear to be the decision of?

No. As Russell has been saying, it has been foisted upon them. Notice the last clause of that Computerworld editorial:

Either way, it looks as if Aucklanders will have to look to their new council for ICT direction and development and hope?

It's not quite that simple either. Please trust that experts like John Holley quoted in Orsman's piece do know what?

Again, you seem to be under the impression they have a choice. Commitments made by the ATA are subsequently binding on the Council.

I think you're being disingenuous and I'm not going to further entertain you on the topic.

ok, I didn't know that. I thought there had been a transition system paid for and the new council got to make a final decision on the long term solution.

There still seems to be disgreement amongst experts though about new system vs less costly?

Exactly.
As it is they are probably all getting new keyboards and monitors, oh and a cool new mousepad?

Ok I'm confused. So 6 of the 8 IT systems existing used SAP (and yes we use the stupid accounting program here too). But rather than upgrade one or more of those to cover the merged entity someone (not sure who)?

You don't honestly think that's remotely likely, do you?

Megatropolis Amalgamation and Ratepayer Rape Act

I bet that'd make the ratepayers eyes water...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUk4rjcHa50&playnext=1&list=PLFE1B4C9767F3DC35

Yes I know its no laughing matter.
The anger and frustration at Hide 'n Key et al is palpable.
More exposure on this issue please.

I was thinking that, but I'm not an Aucklander so not really my place to say.

Still though, if public whinging sessions are to be held, Epsom might be a good venue; if?

I note the smiley and so forebear to rant :-D #morningswork #pffft

So who __does__?

Ka-ching!$

...any Siemens controllers in our infrastructure?

I found it?

More like "You finish your tea, I'll do it" ;-)

FKN LOL

Will the last person to leave New Zealand
turn Deloittes off
Now that, Sir, deserves some kind of an award, maybe even a Deloitte Award.

Near as I can tell SAP is really good if you are doing things like building 777s,

Ok we need 3 planes on December 5th 2014 so we will need to by 480 Y connectors (17 mm) on 12th April 2012 etc etc

I thought you were going on about a politician, but I'm not supposed to think like that.

so building from scratch wasn't necessarily overly expensive. Have there been justifications – I mean any genuine even if?

Near as I can tell SAP is really good if you are doing things like building 777s

This squares with my brief brush with SAP, when one of our customers (a large US paper/packaging?

I've used SAP in two different companies now. In the?

The brief select committee report (68KB PDF) into the 2010 local elections has recommendations for future ones (h/t DPF).?

Hang on. I?m getting this.

You?re saying that Rodney Hide was sent back from the future to engineer an IT spend of sufficient scale as to trigger a singularity and eventually bring into being an aware?

which pretty much rules out that provenance

We had full workflow for payments, including approvals. (no paper needed to be stamped or signed). If you were a supplier and submitted and invoice that matched the?

The ARC and ARTA pushed to leverage existing investment. That happened for Transport. Don't blame SAP.

What most don?t realise, but mentioned by Cassandra, is how secretive and authoritarian the ATA was. Worse, the DIA knew of many of the serious issues e.g., the ATA arbitrarily selecting a vendor for a solution after?

Which actually explains a lot of things such as his lack of empathy.

If you're going to say things like that, Cassandra, you'd better post more often.

You know, that would explain the sudden fitness jag and weight loss...

Addressing the relative involvement and behaviour of former councils in the transition process would be enlightening. Even just in the IT part of it.

+1

+1

There was some here and there, but all the ultimate decision making lay with the ATA – especially Mike Foley.

For example, none of the CIOs?

www.stopthesupercity.org.nz

It's now democracy for developers, consultants and private contractors.

The public majority are effectively no more than a giant ca$h cow?

The cost blow to rebuild the IT system from the ground up can be funded by a mix of further privatisation, rates increases or reverting to form bus lane fines of which?

to quote Southerly

_"The Cost of Wholesale Demolition

According to my (rough) analysis using the council?s ?Rating? database, it would cost the EQC about $175,000 on average to reimburse each riverside homeowner?

I thought it was one of the largest local bodies in the southern hemisphere (though I don't recall where I read that)?

Sure, frequently there are awful?

And isn't it unusually large globally, come to that? I do remember during the debate leading up to it there were a lot of discussions about how almost?

The Herald, at least, now has a gift of a series of stories to get its teeth into...?

I wouldn't hold your breath.

But just for a moment I allowed myself the luxury of living in a good, fair world where baddies were apprehended and good triumphed.

We have to grab our pleasures whenever we can these days!

The ATA is what limited the work that was done up until Nov 1. (18 months of?

Yeah, don't hold your breath. It didn't lead the paper yesterday and there's no follow-up today.

It's only half a billion dollars, after all.

Hey, that's the Canon Newspaper of the Year you're talking about. They don't just distribute those between the mediocre organs of two conglomerates year-in, year-out, you know.

Might be time to break out the Vista DVDs.

I doubt it. Us talking is not enough. Media won't drive this on their own.

Strong and coherent political opposition is required, and in this instance those who could have led some of it are now around the top table?

Auckland ratepayers are going to be stuck with a huge bill for the Nats? failure to properly cost the Supercity merger process. Specifically in this case, the cost of merging the IT systems.

Planning for the Supercity merger was a shambles. There?

I know. I know.

I guess most journos (and their audience) understand dinged cars so it's just easier,?

Not much so far. Nothing on Stuff at all, no show on TV1 and TV3. Even Google has mostly drawn a blank outside of the blogosphere.

EDIT: There's a side article in The Aucklander, but it's not headline?

Honestly? I find IT cost overruns a lot easier to understand than bothering to fix "dings and scratches".

The shit has hit the fan for one person who's commented and I've removed the comments in question for that person's sake.

I can't help but feel that this says something about the nature of this whole sorry?

Yep, dammed if you do, dammed if you don't. So I thought I'd email Phil Twyford. A young man who has been trying since day one to help Aucklanders understand what they are?

Uh, Twyford is a member of said opposition.

The government, then (though some would argue you were right the first time)

Then how about we go back to '95? Or, hey, DOS, while we're at it? By that argument, they must be practically miraculous on "modern gear". Except...oh, wait,?

Actually, they do. Some progs have difficulty with how fast DOS runs, as they?re built with I/O delays to allow for the OS to?

No, it's not a reasonable price.

Yeah, nice first post. Did anyone say "Don't be such a Cassandra" about it all, Cassandra?

Or is it just that we don't (or won't, or can't) look as deeply as other countries?

I think it's because our kind of corruption is different. There's no need for overt crookedness when the game has a stacked deck built in. In NZ, it's considered outrageous if you put?

Or. If they raise the minimum?

To do with the comments I removed on Saturday. They were getting someone into serious trouble.

It seems prudent to be discreet about it for now.

No no, it's depression that there's none of in New Zealand.

you think these suit-wearing theives will let some upstart bloggers threaten their $300 million fleecing operation? who needs corporate auditors when you've got these fine, upstanding mega-scammers?

all completely in order, nothing to see here.
move along, no (De)loit(t)ering, please.

Commercial organisations will normally try to ?up-sell? their products/services etc. That is why it is important, with RFPs in local/central govt, that you have clear and?

Also, if any contractor on the ATA side was operating with self-interest, that is^H^H would be corruption of their duty to act as agents of the Crown while in the employ of the?

And this is firmer ground. It's an awful failure for which, as I suggested in the headline, someone must be held accountable.

I did see consultants engaged by the ATA checking on the work of other consultants engaged by the ATA. I could only shake my head when I attended meetings with two sets of consultants. I would shake my head?

matching the Minister perfectly..

You know me too well, sir! :-)

There are many levels of corruption, especially in the procurement process. When Transparency International say NZ has one of the least corrupt governments in the world, they're mostly talking about personal corruption e.g taking bribes, nepotism in employment,?

Yup, I've read a couple of the chapters he published. So much bullshit in the name of "science"!!

Or will the money be pissed away on overseas businesses who seem to find the idea of paying taxes in?

Recipe for disaster, right there.

Keep them small, agile and moving in a common direction...that's?

But no, your $$s are heading into never never land.

You need SAP for that rule? Why, did they patent it or something?

Yes, we can stay perfectly calm – refer to budget and treasury growth forecasts.

And, at the ARC/ARTA, we were using open?

We, the ARC, put in the Sales and Distribution module to handle the regulatory billing?

wouldn't want to be labelled a pendant :)

Every now and then, we just need to let you make a dick of yourself, Russell. ;-) (Personally, I never knew what "ATA" stood for, but then I'm probably even more of an invisible middle-class weasel than?

1. It's really easy if you have half a brain
2. If you have a whole brain it's really boring and stressful

Super City reporter Local Government Minister Rodney Hide says there is nothing contradictory about a promise last year to build a new Super City computer system for $126 million and the final bill of $576 million.

Writing in the Herald in June last?

At long last. Next stop: the Auditor-General's Office.

Except that it was Orsman who wrote the original article. Better than a slap in the face with a wet fish though.

Why isn't Campbell Live "across" this?

Even more clever is the same people trying to blame Len Brown for the apparent dysfunction of the structures these same people imposed.

WHO VOTES FOR THESE PEOPLE!!!!

This was predicted last year and, verily, has come to pass.

It's really hard to look at this and not conclude that costs were deliberately hidden until?

The projected $450 million over the next eight years, he said, would go into the council's long-term plan next year and be subject to consultation.

Mr McKay said the council would be "all ears" to IT?

My thoughts exactly. I've previously predicted a Greater London Council-style showdown, and this is no exception.

Too complex for tv?

It?s particularly interesting to see how divergent the Council and Government?s views are on major things like the level of transportation benefits and wider economic benefits.

Here?s the Council?s media release:?

The Herald story itself is on page 7 of the paper. Not really getting why it isn't front-page news.

I guess one bottle of wine is a tragedy; hundreds of millions of dollars is a statistic.

I'm told the new system isn't IPv6 capable, which seems crazy.

New group to advise on state sector reform (be afraid – it includes Mark Ford)