Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Swine flu, terror and Susan Boyle

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  • complacenta,

    then i repeat my query

    to what extent though is the idea that it be better that "the blow falls upon the woman" rather than that "tenuous scrap of life growing inside her" inconsistent somehow with the enormous social emphasis, from left right & god knows where else as well, put on the sentiment that it is children who must always be saved first, rather than more developed, experientially/contributionally, and even existentially-rich humans?

    am i to BLAME for wondering about this????

    Since Jun 2009 • 26 posts Report Reply

  • complacenta,

    IS IT more exciting for you then to play this plainly puerile little game of round up and catch lil' p's outlaw ass if you can, rather than attempt to engage with with what she SAYS?

    Since Jun 2009 • 26 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    The saying used to be "*women* and children first" - in certain circumstances.

    Human instincts being what they are, there is a very strong imperative to help children in emergency circumstances - but it isnt overwhelming in all circumstances.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • complacenta,

    NOW you're talking

    abortion is obviously an emergency circumstance
    unfortunately, 'humans' are creatures not of instinct
    (although we are not of course yet devoid of it)
    but creatures-of-representation of what it is that we do and how that is seen by others and maybe eventually even by whatever may turn out to actually be 'ourselves'..

    instinct sure as hell does not motivate this blog!
    i think you can agree that little children as such, way before any mere over-shadowing woman, occupy a preposessing place in the hierarchy of our present sacral structure!

    and that is the inconsistency of affects that i am, however clumsily, trying to get at with my query

    Since Jun 2009 • 26 posts Report Reply

  • complacenta,

    here is the quote from the NAPW webiste that truly makes me wonder


    "..Dr. Tiller was extraordinary. When I met him he talked about why women have abortions and how they understand them in terms of their religious faith and spirituality. He described his efforts to serve them with respect, making possible rituals that would allow them to say goodbye to fetal life that they in fact valued.."


    what terms could these be if they are not those of the oldest institution in the world, that of human sacrifice?

    Since Jun 2009 • 26 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Frankly, I cannot agree that
    a) a foetus is 'a little child' and
    b)"little children as such, way before any mere

    *gag*

    "overshadowing woman"

    (the rest of your quote doesnt make much sense to me but I gather you may mean "have a pre-eminent place.")

    I dont agree *at all* that the life of the foetus is more important than the life of the mother-to-be. In circumstances where it comes down to save mother or baby-to-be, I go my midwife sisters (I have 2 such) guidance - *always save the woman first* - with one exception (and both my sisters have encountered this): where you have a terminally ill woman who has clearly stated this beforehand, that she would prefer to die if her baby-to-be could then live.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • complacenta,

    my question, regarding the role of Dr Tiller as priest,
    remains, O Islander..

    Since Jun 2009 • 26 posts Report Reply

  • complacenta,

    i did not at any point describe said foetus as little child
    i simply asked if the logic with which the great social pressure bears
    down on a very conscious selection of those to escape disaster
    ie CHILDREN, is not weirdly inconsistent somhow with that 'logic' which subordinates the life of the 'lil' scrap of potentiality inside to the mother with a whole bunch of lived miles on the clock already?

    (forget the 'overshadowing woman, i was just tring to make an image of precedence)

    Since Jun 2009 • 26 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Dr Tiller was NOT a priest: he was an obstetrician who helped women with late-term abortions in especially difficult & trying circumstances (for the women involved.) He was - as noted- a very compassionate man, and he, and his staff, were guided by the women they helped as to what would help them, whether rituals or whatever.

    The oldest institution in the world is not human sacrifice, and, especially, not child or foetal sacrifice. Archaeologically, there is an abundance of dead child remains - because they were more susceptible to dying. Ritual sacrifices of children (almost never deliberately of foetuses) are relatively late in the archaeological record.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    And that's my last response to you on this matter.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • complacenta,

    "whether rituals or whatever"

    so what would he have done differently if he WAS a priest?

    i'm sorry but your 'archeaological record' is too majestically rendered for me

    how in earth do you yourself in relation to this record determine whether said remains are those of ritually-disposed babes or those of accidents 'of nature'?

    surely we should try to make this a little bit clearer?

    Since Jun 2009 • 26 posts Report Reply

  • complacenta,

    and how will the archaeologists of the future go about managing to distinguish between those who were ritually, properly sacrificed, and those who merely got in the way of our greater misadventure - oh i am sorry this is totally out of bounds, right?

    Since Jun 2009 • 26 posts Report Reply

  • Blake Monkley,

    Auckland • Since Jul 2008 • 215 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Good one Blake!

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Blake Monkley,

    BTW -22 degrees Celsius and a clear blue day.

    Auckland • Since Jul 2008 • 215 posts Report Reply

  • complacenta,

    yeah, good one, CHEERS, bro! (doubtlessly a toast made in bad faith)


    Islander, please explain to me forthwith this akashic archaeology of your understanding!

    unless you would flee to the accounting of Jesus proposed by Rev.Layne with no further homework performed on yr part at all?

    why, who woulda thunkit of a "socially creative primate"?

    Since Jun 2009 • 26 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks,

    Soo, anyone see watch Campbell Live tonight? That Gordan Ramsey eh... What a prat.

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1165 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    He can be a good chef but...o dear. Celebrityhood gone to his head.

    Blake - I envy you your weather conditions: we have -22oC{I'm ice-mummifying some neighbours as we speak) but a really opaque charcoal sky...need solace amidst the gloom


    (slainthing!)

    Why, the delicate call of a laphroaig dram! How - warming!

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I did not know that "slainthing" was a word - cool.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    ur, I'm not sure it is, before now Sacha-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Hey, neologising is fine by me.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Occupations I have run by te Tari Take:

    fungus plucker
    sinecurist (if only!)
    self-employed neologist

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • complacenta,

    cannot say otherwise, you make me feel like a beaten and cowed toddler already, who was only beginning to learn how to turn her 'why' into this superior 'how'

    Since Jun 2009 • 26 posts Report Reply

  • complacenta,

    the Slainthing sleeps tonight

    Since Jun 2009 • 26 posts Report Reply

  • ScottY,

    Soo, anyone see watch Campbell Live tonight? That Gordan Ramsey eh... What a prat.

    I'll say. Never would have picked it.

    West • Since Feb 2009 • 794 posts Report Reply

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