Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Te Qaeda and the God Squad

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  • kowhai montgomery,

    Ta Tom, I could really be bothered getting into it because I wondered if the poster was just being facetious.

    wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 485 posts Report Reply

  • Nick Melchior,

    Correct. But by the same token, being an animal rights activist doesn't mean it's impossible for you to embrace violence, as some people seem to think. It has happened.

    Oh hell no. I'm up with the Animal Rights Militia and their ilk. I'm an ex-straight edge vegan, I've met all sorts of people (and listened to all sorts of bands) who espoused violent attacks on vivisectionists etc. But that's just the same as christians who kill abortion doctors - completely insane, but that's how it goes sometimes. But being willing to break the law, while it obviously plays some role in the development of terrorists, doesn't a terrorist make regardless of ideology.

    Melbourne • Since Nov 2006 • 30 posts Report Reply

  • InternationalObserver,

    This from Bomber's blog:

    the images of bright bushy young idealists running around the Ureweras with Ak47s is going to terrify soccer mums around the country

    Yeah, NZ is full of 'soccer mums', just like those all those NZ bureaucrats and politicians working in 'the Beltway'. Let's not use US cliches people ...

    The manipulation by the cops, by the government and by the SIS into raising the spectre of terrorism to terrify NZ hasn’t even begun – wait until the media find out who the ‘target’ supposedly was. We ain’t seen nothing yet folks.

    If Bomber knows who the target is, why doesn't he just fricken say who it is? Or is he under some sort of gag order?

    When the dust settles a lot of people will be dining out on stories of how they were in the thick of it, and how the cops had nothing man, and their mana will be increased x 10. I'm guessing four people will be convicted of firearms offences and that's it.

    FYI - I have had lunch with Tama Iti (I paid) and he seemed like a very nice chap; and in the 80s I gave $2000 to a Maori sovereignty group to fund one of their activities. This loan was made at the end of a two hour meeting in a tin garage in Mangere with 20 of them and one of me (young middle class white boy) where statements such as "when the revolution comes where will you be standing? With us, or up against the wall? Because when the revolution comes, we will be lining people up".

    Since Jun 2007 • 909 posts Report Reply

  • Bob Munro,

    Bob - as for your comments, it's not a black or white issue. Considering the police system flawed doesn't mean that you need to refuse to use it at all times any more than thinking capitalism is flawed requires you to never go to the dairy to get bread.

    I wasn't trying to express any particular opnion about the various issues and causes just wondering what could have been the common factor that encouraged the Police to target such disparate groups, in response to Sonics post.

    Christchurch • Since Aug 2007 • 418 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Stevens,

    People can eventually get so deeply involved in and seduced by their own arguments and end up believeing that they must act in a radical fashion or else.
    I wonder if that has gone on here.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 229 posts Report Reply

  • Keith Ng,

    It made it to page 4 on Japan's biggest English paper. There's a big photo of Tame Iti (very photogenic), talk of weapons training camps, and a Maori separatist angle is implied.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 530 posts Report Reply

  • Sonic,

    The fact that the judge just allowed the first detained person bail due to "lack of evidence" is not a good sign for the police.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 102 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    Let's wait a bit shall we.

    At the moment the police are saying stuff all. That is appropriate because it's an active investigation and anything they say could prejudice any case they may bring.

    At the moment the only sources of info are people not directly involved in the group in question - because the group in question are being held by the police.

    So the only info is guesses and rumour.

    However, folks that want to remove themselves from the control of the NZ Govt and yet still ocupy the country are by definition opposing the Govt. So the folks insisting that they are not opposing the govt, yet still want to create a separate state are a bit confused I think.

    IF someone has been playing with napalm, they should go to jail. Napalm is a disgusting weapon that has no place in civilisation and anyone who thinks different really needs to be removed from society. IF such people are playing around in the bush then I want our police to intervene with as heavy a hand as they feel appropriate.

    But as I said up front we know few if any facts, untill we get facts we need to be cool OK?

    cheers
    Bart

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3325 posts Report Reply

  • Bob Munro,

    People can eventually get so deeply involved in and seduced by their own arguments and end up believeing that they must act in a radical fashion or else.
    I wonder if that has gone on here.

    Yep. This could well be the common factor in the minds of the Police.

    Christchurch • Since Aug 2007 • 418 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Oh, right. here's Bomber's post from last night:

    I've just come back from talking with some people in the activist community who have an idea of what is going on here, and if the allegations as I understand them are true, this country is about to get very, very, very angry. The revelations had my jaw fall open - though I don't believe for one moment what will be revealed is anything more than stupid arrogant boasts on the behalf of those who have been caught, middle NZ will recoil in horror and the right wing are about to be handed the most devestating home goal from a group of clowns who are about to set off a chain reaction the ends of which simply can't be determined.

    two things seem certain:

    I: God forgive me, but as I understand it (and I'm open to being wrong, please let me be wrong) BUT the Police look like they were right to be concerned
    2: There is going to be outrage when the full story gets out the likes of which talkback have never dreamt of.

    Things are about to get really bumpy and I fear where this is going to end. I'm going to bed in the hope this is all one bad dream.

    Crikey.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18827 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    It wasn't Hager's story until the very last moment --- he was only brought in late in the piece to add some security background, so unless the editor of the Sunday Star Times was in on it too, this just doesn't wash.

    Anyway, I don't resile from my view that everyone connected with the 'Operation Leaf' debacle should have lost their jobs - but not because they were the victims of any kind of "classic agent provocateur operation" but because it was a shabby story. Personally, I wonder if it was just one of those stories that were too good to check as carefully as they should have been. I don't think it's OTT to say that if it had panned out Operation Leaf would have been a near-Watergate level scandal.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11911 posts Report Reply

  • stephen clover,

    Anonymous, in the comments to the post quoted above:

    Bomber what the hell do you think you are doing? First you turn up to an event full of activists and pretend to care then you run home to your computer and start splashing shit round the web about the people being held.

    The rest of us know when to keep our mouths shut and see what happens, if you turn up to meetings again I will make sure you are kept in your rightful place - outside with the media far away from the real activists.

    Learn to shut your mouth and keep your concerns to yourself

    LOL

    wgtn • Since Sep 2007 • 348 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Darlington,

    Things are about to get really bumpy and I fear where this is going to end. I'm going to bed in the hope this is all one bad dream.

    Crikey indeed. My biggest worry now is that when the truth finally does come out, I'll be thoroughly underwhelmed.

    Nelson • Since Nov 2006 • 886 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    * "I'm training up to be a vicious, dangerous commando"

    * "White men are going to die in this country"

    * "I'm at war. I'm declaring war on this country very soon"

    The Herald are running the above 'chilling' quotes from Jamie Lockett - perhaps they'd be a little more frightening if I hadn't been reading kiwiblog for such a long time and grown accustomed to nutters like Redbaiter and Dad4Justice promising civil war and oceans of blood.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 901 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    Tama Itis been under the eye of the media for ages, prosecuter by the cops & just won on appeal. He must know he's being watched.

    I don't know much about Bomber - but isn't he always full of sh*t?

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • stephen clover,

    Kyle Chapman:

    The fact they had Molitov cocktails ready to use, they were preparing to attack something. These are not weapons one makes to sit around, they were either ready to be practiced with, or they were ready to use. The fuel in them will disolve [sic] if it is left sitting around for too long.

    Isn't it comforting to learn that he knows the shelf-life of a Molitov cocktail.

    wgtn • Since Sep 2007 • 348 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    He shud - he used them

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    The Herald are running the above 'chilling' quotes from Jamie Lockett - perhaps they'd be a little more frightening if I hadn't been reading kiwiblog for such a long time and grown accustomed to nutters like Redbaiter and Dad4Justice promising civil war and oceans of blood.

    Of course. People don't get arrested for rhetoric, and if they did a number of Kiwiblog commenters would be in trouble.

    But come on, Danyl. Lockett is a heavy dude, who made apparently credible threats of violence when he was working as Mark Lyon's minder. And he has also been charged with firearms offences. I'm not real comfortable with him saying things like that, especially if there is a connection between him and the camo warriors.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18827 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    The Herald are running the above 'chilling' quotes from Jamie Lockett - perhaps they'd be a little more frightening if I hadn't been reading kiwiblog for such a long time and grown accustomed to nutters like Redbaiter and Dad4Justice promising civil war and oceans of blood.

    How about they read their own reader feedback columns? I really had to roll my eyes when I saw this morning's editorial headlined: Call off the referee witch-hunt. Someone on the outsourced subs bench has a cosmic sense of irony..

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11911 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I don't know much about Bomber - but isn't he always full of sh*t?

    Do you seriously think he invented conversations so as to point the finger at people he knows?

    Read the comments, where someone's telling him to keep his mouth shut.

    He may well be right in saying that what the police are responding to are empty threats that were never going to be acted on, but I don't doubt his sincerity.

    Any show of you acknowledging that there just might have been matters of legitimate police concern here, Michael?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18827 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    How about they read their own reader feedback columns?

    I'm pretty sure the Herald doesn't run threats to kill in 'Your Views', Craig.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18827 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    And nice to see the contriutors to the Herald's Your Views feature are maintaining the thoughtful and open-minded tone we all know and love.

    My personal favourite:

    Absolutly the police done the right thing, if these mugs don't wont to be part of the normal NZ society then they get whatever the police see as been fit. Aso as a caution to these people, be very careful not to wake a sleeping giant because middle NZer's might just bite back.

    With friends like this...

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11911 posts Report Reply

  • Sonic,

    Russel, it is also possible that a bunch of police informers cooked up the whole thing.

    A few beers, a few rash statements, informer gets a hold of a few rusty guns while the cops watch every move.

    Just as likely, and since anyone who was really involved would be keeping quiet (as they should) all bomber would have is gossip.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 102 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I'm pretty sure the Herald doesn't run threats to kill in 'Your Views', Craig.

    I bloody hope not, but doesn't crap like "if these mugs don't wont to be part of the normal NZ society then they get whatever the police see as been fit" and "be very careful not to wake a sleeping giant because middle NZer's might just bite back" doesn't make anyone even slightly nervous? Frankly, I think twice about giving 'Got My Vote' space on any blog I was running.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11911 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    More munterism on Indymedia. Check out this guy:

    Should you be approached by anyone you suspect is posing as a police officer you should shoot first and ask questions later. If you survive being arrested later and make no admissions you may get off in court before a jury of your peers.

    This is a tough one but nothing worth having was ever NOT fought hard for. We have the right to bear arms, defend ourselves and fair trials with natural justice after centuries of rule by bullies and PIGS. The Feudal system was A FUCKING POLICE STATE!

    Fuck the democratic-socialist scum that always turn to fascism - we will bury you. You want the fucking dark ages back you better be careful what youse wish for.

    Goodness.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18827 posts Report Reply

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