Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The Big 2012 US Election PAS Thread

389 Responses

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  • Russell Brown, in reply to DeepRed,

    Keep me posted if you can find a bigger sore loser than Donald Trump.

    There are people out there currently making Trump look reasoned and dignified.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 19019 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Yes, that house needs to pass the jobs bill fast or its fireworks.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    I’m not pretending Reagan was a closet liberal, but you really think the Tea Baggers or the theo-cons would have let him out of New Hampshire alive with a record like that?

    Someone who has occasionally dropped by these parts to parrot Tea Party talking points was selectively quoting Eisenhower's 1961 farewell address ("military-industrial complex") here a while back. Taken in its entirety it's the kind of message that would have the Fox News polituburo calling for his impeachment if he'd made it today.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 3597 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Littlewood, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    If you read The Economist regularly enough to take its fundamentally classical liberal editorial pulse, it’s hardly surprising that it has a lot of issues with the Obama Administration’s economic and trade policies. And even on “social issues” it’s often more to the left than Obama is. Don’t forget The Economist came out for marriage equality looong before it was trendy. :)

    Oh, of course. Editorially, you're never going to be too surprised by The Economist (although it's also argued for a much stronger approach to tackling global warming/climate change than either candidate proffered), but fortunately its reputation is built on the basics of good journalism and good writing. And good design too. I love their covers

    That’s the approach the congressional Republicans decided to take, and I guess you could argue it worked for them in the 2010 mid-terms, and at least didn’t cost them the House today. But I don’t think it’s unreasonable to demand they OWN IT.

    Yes, and you wonder how long they can continue to do that and still hold onto their seats.

    As an aside, it's instructive comparing Obama's keynote 2004 DNC speech to, say, his 2012 presidential acceptance speech. There are a lot of similarities in tone, it has to be said, but damn, Obama 2004 looks a good 16 years younger than Obama 2012, not eight. I guess what they say about the aging effect on presidents is true.

    Today, Tomorrow, Timaru • Since Jan 2007 • 443 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Hebe,

    I have loathed Mitt Romney all the way through, but his concession speech made me wonder if I had the measure of the man. It was extraordinarily heartfelt, and gracious with no trace of malice. I was impressed by him, which is confusing given the campaign awfulnesses. Was the campaign was more about the rabid Republican strategists’ view of electability rather than Romney as a person and what he believes?

    The Romney who was Governor of Massachusetts was a moderate, capable man. In some ways his undoing was what he had to become to win the Republican primaries -- and the way he had to pretend he hadn't taken those positions once he was the nominee.

    Charle Krauthammer was already beginning the repudiation of Romney -- as a closet liberal -- on Fox News tonight. They want to convince themselves that he only lost because he wasn't extreme enough.

    The lunacy of the Republican base is, unfortunately, underwritten with the money of billionaires. Jeb Bush et al have their work cut out for them to to try and wrench their party back from the unreality that pervades it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 19019 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Ah …. xkcd.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 19019 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Charle Krauthammer was already beginning the repudiation of Romney – as a closet liberal – on Fox News tonight. They want to convince themselves that he only lost because he wasn’t extreme enough.

    Andrew Sullivan's brutal fisking of David Frum's *cough* odd endorsement of Romney is still worth quoting, because it's an unsettling mirror help up to the GOP as well as Mitt.

    my real objections to David's endorsement are the following. The premise of his argument is that Romney is a liar of massive proportions whose campaign David accurately describes as "one long appeasement of the most selfish and stupid elements of the Republican coalition," but who actually, in private, doesn't believe a word of it. So not to worry. The "real" Romney will emerge - compassionate, moderate, practical and data-driven, as in Massachusetts - the day after he is elected.

    Some questions. First off, he worked in Massachusetts with an 85 percent Democratic legislature. That's a guide to how he'd run the entire country with a Republican Congress? Not buying it. But secondly, if Frum is right, then Romney does not have the character to be president of the US. Someone who lies his way to the top will have no credibility with the American people and no mandate from his party. I do not believe we should elect a fathomless cynic to the White House. David's argument for Romney is even worse than David Brooks': Brooks predicts that circumstances will force Romney into pragmatism. Frum simply says that nary a jot of what Romney said in the primaries is what he actually believes.

    And the people Frum correctly described as " the most selfish and stupid elements of the Republican coalition"? Let's tell the dirty truth - they were perfectly, cynically happy to back a man they could barely hide their contempt for a few short months ago because, I believe, they thought he'd be easily biddable in the Oval Office. And why wouldn't they?

    If the Republicans had increased their majority in the House and regained control of the Senate, it's spectacularly naive to think a substantively moderate Romney Administration wouldn't have been battered into submission on every front.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12052 posts Report Reply

  • jb, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Was in New England for a week around the time of the 2nd debate, being swamped by political ads with varying degrees of truthfulness. Some Brown:Warren ads went along the predictable he said-she said lines, but the majority of Warren's were attacking Brown's purported anti-feminine agenda, with Brown's wife coming back to say "Rubbish!"
    Political content, let alone an agenda? Forget it....

    a.small.town.in.germany • Since Jan 2007 • 77 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Hebe,

    Romney Border cross...

    but his concession speech made me wonder if I had the measure of the man.

    I suspect it was tinged by a little relief, he was never gonna do a good job as president - now if the US can just get Obama to spend waaaay less on wars of all kinds, they may even have a future worth heading towards....

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 5092 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    now if the US can just get Obama to spend waaaay less on wars of all kinds, they may even have a future worth heading towards....

    This is the guy who promised to close Gitmo, back when he did Hope and Change and Yes We Can. Now the world appears pathetically grateful that he's not Romney, while he presides over a foreign policy that's pretty much indistinguishable from the Bush years. Obama, master of lowered expectations.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 3597 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    Obama, master of lowered expectations.

    the difference this time is that Obama isn't promising anything that would need congress to cooperated with him.

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 905 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    Ike had trouble from the right at the time. The only reason he didn't get more was his unassailable past as the USA's leading WW2 general.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4484 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    Now the world appears pathetically grateful that he’s not Romney,

    Healthcare was a big thing for my family. Whilst many could afford private insurance, many (yes yes there are a lot of Mexicans who are allowed to stay legally) found such things like smaller injuries (breaking ones arm) prohibitive. What healthcare I have taken for granted in this country would be impossible in The States for some of my cousins and have commented on how lucky I was to be here.. No help whatsoever for my disabled cousin.
    So, may not be much in the grand scheme of world peace but everyone should start somewhere. I give Obama that. it's a big thing over there.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6349 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    My expectations did drop, but I think that was because they were unrealistic in the first place. He has accomplished things that were important, mostly domestic. US foreign policy stance is a huge one to tackle, it has plans that span decades. To even halt certain kinds of insanity, like full scale aggressive war, is to achieve a lot. Iran is probably safe for another 4 years.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8675 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    So, may not be much in the grand scheme of world peace but everyone should start somewhere. I give Obama that. it's a big thing over there.

    Sofie I appreciate Obama's qualified achievements on a number of issues, but on foreign policy he appears every bit as beholden to vested interests as most hard-line Republicans. I can't accept that advances in health care, gay marriage, tax equitability or drug law reform are acceptable tradeoffs for a perpetual war economy,

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 3597 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    I do worry, given the fact it’s essentially going to be electoral status quo ( solidly Democrat Senate, solidly Republican Congress, Democrat president) that the US is going to be locked in four more years of GOP legislative brinkmanship and filibustering. But that’s for another debate.

    That's going to be the really interesting thing. Are the republicans, driven by tea party people, going to continue their "screw over the President any way we can?" line? And will the tea party pay for it electorally come mid terms or four years from now? If you did it in most countries I'd say you would, but it's difficult to tell in America - politicians seem to say and do the stupidest things and only a few of them find themselves without jobs come election night.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6221 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    The "real" Romney will emerge - compassionate, moderate, practical and data-driven, as in Massachusetts - the day after he is elected.

    This, and the whole 'we don't really know who Romney is' thing bugs the shit out of me. He has a record. While he was governor of Massachusetts, same-sex couples had to apply to his office for special permission to register the births of their children - whose birth certificates were then altered in biro. This is the man who said, "I didn't know you people had families," and "I don't care what you tell your adopted daughter*, tell her what you've been telling her the last eight years."

    Which Mitt is real? That one.

    *She wasn't adopted. He just couldn't get his head around a lesbian giving birth to a child.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4371 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/11/07/twitter-us-election-funny-republican-tweets_n_2087229.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false#slide=1730509

    Pick of the bunch:

    "The fact that there is a concession speech, not widespread violence, happening now is a testament to America's greatness. #forloveofcountry"

    Since Nov 2006 • 6221 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    From Huffington Post The Funniest Angry Republican Twitter Responses To Barack Obama's Victory

    Pick of the bunch:

    "The fact that there is a concession speech, not widespread violence, happening now is a testament to America's greatness. #forloveofcountry"

    Since Nov 2006 • 6221 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 3597 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Kyle Matthews,

    Pick of the bunch:

    I thought this illustrated the political depth of knowledge nicely:

    Kristen Neel
    I'm moving to Australia, because their president is a Christian and actually supports what he says.

    Mind you, I have heard some stunning bits of ignorance from our own members of Parliament, far worse than hearing from a twitterer.
    Last night I heard Amy Adams say that the glass from recycling televisions can be used to make sand for bunkers on golf courses. Are these people insane?

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4947 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood, in reply to Kyle Matthews,

    Pick of the bunch:“The fact that there is a concession speech, not widespread violence

    [1] Except in Mississippi (Univesity of Mississippi students had a little riot of a few hundred students that burned Obama signs and yelled "racial slurs")

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 905 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to David Hood,

    Is that considered a riot or just a party, in Mississippi?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8675 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Doyle,

    I know it's not needed for a result, but when can we expect a final tally from Florida?

    Stillwater • Since Nov 2011 • 28 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to BenWilson,

    lol

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6349 posts Report Reply

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