Rarrrrgh!

Sign on Cabinet Room wall: "What would the Rotary Club do?"

The problem for National is John Key: he's just such a nice guy.

On the other hand, the swing that got them in is rapidly going away. But the problem for Labour is, well, Phil Goff. He just doesn't have?

National wouldn't consider changing any of our drug laws unless they got permission from the yanks first.

And there you have hit the nail on the head... we're still apparently quite keen on an FTA with the worlds largest borrower.

I nearly bought that ticket... but then I couldn't find?

And there you have hit the nail on the head... we're still apparently quite keen on an FTA with the worlds largest borrower.

I don't understand it. It's like lusting over someone superficially attractive – who wants you to change to suit their lifestyle and do things that you really?

It's like lusting over someone superficially attractive

..and waking up in bed with an ugly psychopathic mass-murderer.

"Unfortunately, while the Police will be making the most of this new legislation, at the same time they are effectively waiving a white flag to the customers whose demand supports drug dealers, with?

Cannabis is prohibited because it makes better quality fibres than the petro-chemical industry, and because cannabis makes better paper than the wood chip industry.?

Wait what?

Pure political rhetoric. Amphetamine has been around as a recreational drug since the 1970s and?

quite a few of us out there.

Helloooooooooooooooo, Echelon :))

I can understand being upset about this. But how is this different to anything under the last Labour/Alliance/NZFirst/United-Future Government?

Craig's not gonna be happy you're stealing his lines.

I can understand being upset about this. But how is this different to anything under the last Labour/Alliance/NZFirst/United-Future Government?

It's not: but we can all dream.

One day someone will have the balls to break the impasse. You are in fact doubly right – in NZ's history all the things?

I can understand being upset about this. But how is this different to anything under the last Labour/Alliance/NZFirst/United-Future Government?

In fairness, Helen personally did favour partial de-crim. However, Jim Anderton was opposed, and Peter Dunne made the status quo a condition of his minority support.

Whereas current Governmental opposition to?

I can understand being upset about this. But how is this different to anything under the last Labour/Alliance/NZFirst/United-Future Government?

The speed of the outright dismissal and its tone are both notable. Power wasn't even trying to sound thoughtful.

Dunne has always used this issue for cynical political branding, but Anderton?

That's the evidence, so yes you're right Russell, it's the death of evidence, but there is?

The speed of the outright dismissal and its tone are both notable. Power wasn't even trying to sound thoughtful.

Yeah, I dig that.

It has to be noted that this Government is acting like this in a great number of sectors. It might feel good, but I really can't see?

Thankfully tomorrow (Breakfast, Sunrise & Morning Report) I'm being given the opportunity to clarify some?

The Blue-Liberals group has been established to advocate for socially liberal values and policies within the National Party.

Our core commitment is to economic and social freedom, responsible government and national identity with diversity.

Although stated easily enough, these things involve?

If Power is really interested in having wars on drugs, he should look at what America's war on drugs has achieved over 50 years: massive prison muster, massive state spending and increased drug offences.

Exhibit A, Your Honour. Privatised prisons. 'nuff said.

Misuse of Drugs Act issues paper published
Posted by Iain Lees-Galloway on February 11th, 2010

We could have a look here also but I'm late, forgive me if it's boring.

Does anyone else think David Slack is the bomb? Or is it just me late for dinner? Wonderful metaphor

Christchurch Transport engineers used 1950 concepts in the 1970s. We have race tracks & no traffic, but the relative success of the Traffic Cops and the sober driving of boy racers, means in order?

They only way they can possibly get away with this is if they can somehow hold their position until the media* move on to something else.

*present company excepted

'You voted for this, so shut up and be grateful!' Yeah, not so much.

But still wants to drag people who commit small drug offences through the courts, even though there is no evidence that that actually prevents the use of illicit drugs.

Prohibition of drugs does not work, but it?s easy. So let?s do easy and ignore that it doesn?t work.

But?

That said, what a totally logical approach by the law comm.

as bad as smoking tobacco

Anyone who's smoking enough cannabis for that to be true has other problems.

it's the mental health stats that'll be the added joy

Sure but that is true for alcohol as well. Basically anything that messes with your brain chemistry has the chance of screwing up your brain for good. But messing with brain chemistry is kind of the point of drugs.

Learning?

who's smoking enough

boggle – you are kidding right Sacha – do you really believe there is a safe amount of smoke?

Happy to be shown evidence that disagrees with that, but must now focus on preparing for the?

Beer is the breakfast drink – see Tom Browns School Days.

He wasn't perfect, but he did things no one had done before him.

Yes, no one banned BZP in exactly the same way that he did it.

boggle – you are kidding right Sacha – do you really believe there is a safe amount of smoke?

I doubt that's what?

If you can?t issue an intellectual response?

But it should, sensible drug policy?

(And OTOH, a government untempered by public opinion would be worse. We had enough of that pre-MMP, thankyouverymuch)

I forgot to say: Word, I/S. I'm a lot happier with a National government that's too chicken to do anything precipitous. It's a hopeless dream that they might actually go through with?

It's more like "if you smoked 20 joints a day lung cancer would be the least of your worries".

mmmkay I see what you are saying but somehow you guys seem to have the idea that there is some kind of "safe" tobacco/cannabis consumption with respect to lung cancer. That?

Apart from the proven public health benefits of decriminalizing our current drugs – the removal of the stupid puritanical attitude to using drugs to alter your mind would surely foster the development of, if not safe, then at least safer drugs.

And yet, the most socially accepted and omnipresent drug?

People don't automatically do illegal drugs because they're attracted by the frisson of illegality

Have you ever been a teenager?

but somehow you guys seem to have the idea that there is some kind of "safe" tobacco/cannabis consumption with respect to lung cancer. That isn't true

I understand that smoking is but one way of ingesting the stuff . I also seem to remember that a previous government decided to?

I understand that smoking is but one way of ingesting the stuff.

And who doesn't like cake? Mmmm, delicious cake.

Have you ever been a teenager?

Of course. But not everyone is a teenager. Which is kind of where the libertarian world view falls down.

David Slack is the bomb?

in my addled state I read that as:
David Slack is the bong!

inspirational
inspired
irrational

the most socially accepted and omnipresent drug in our culture — alcohol — is also the most widely abused and the most damaging

It's also one of the oldest and because of it's ability to make water drinkable (kills bugs dead) one of the important parts of most civilisations.

The?

So, the govt. instantly dismisses, for no given reason, the preliminary findings of a long, expensive, and expert review.

They only way they can possibly get away with this is if they can somehow hold their position until the media* move on to something else.

So, will Labour take up?

But that's not the topic and I didn't really mean to derail.

It's not really a derailment, it's a valid point. But I do think it's also to that point to show that tobacco consumption is much higher on average amongst addicts than cannabis consumption is. Cigarette smokers are on?

Yes, no one banned BZP in exactly the same way that he did it.

You mean, experimenting over an extended period with its legal distribution — creating an unprecedented new legal class for novel recreational drugs — and only banning it on the basis of evidence? No, no other countries?

And even then there was aboslutely zero evidence to suggest that the harms of banning BZP were less than the harms of consuming it.

To be fair, I don't think they're seeing anywhere near the level of ED admissions now. When it's sold as E it's too expensive to overdose?

I may be wrong. It's a bit of a shock when that happens.

Over the last few years it's become very difficult to do something because criticising is so much easier than constructing.?

You know what would be a good candidate for a legal recreational stimulant? Ritalin.

Combined with Viagara I thought it already was (in the Rotary club... I'm getting obsessed. And that other great bastion of Middle Class swinging – the Salvo's)

Craig's not gonna be happy you're stealing his lines.

I'm quite happy to be open source on this, Lucy. Otherwise, have a nice weekend.

Lot of that going about

Um, generosity, not the swinging subset of it

Maybe I'm being too generous :p

Sadly, yes.

Personally, I blame The West Wing for making me hope for more.

Personally, I blame The West Wing for making me hope for more.

I keep that bit to hand where POTUS takes down some god-botherer in front of a room full of people.

I can dream.

And of course that's what people were doing when they voted for Obama...

I suddenly had a thought.

.. and it's a good one. It's a strategy that has been identified with the Nat'l govt for a while now; I think I first read it being proposed by Bomber@Tumeke. In general it goes something like:

1. Make a public pronouncement that you're planning?

Indeed, I will not rest until the use of evidence in formulating governmental policy has been cut to zero. I know this is an ambitious target, but, like the Prime Minster, I am ambitious for New Zealand and its people, especially when those people happen?

Scott nails it

LOL:

I know first-hand the terrible damage to irrational policymaking an addiction to evidence can cause

I know first-hand the terrible damage to irrational policymaking an addiction to evidence can cause

I disagree with that, entirely. New Zealand Governments over time have shown that evidence can be used healthily, in moderation.

I disagree with that, entirely. New Zealand Governments over time have shown that evidence can be used healthily, in moderation.

But only when over the age of 20, or 18 if accompanied by a guardian or while consuming a meal.

National wouldn't consider changing any of our drug laws unless they got permission from the yanks first.

Meanwhile, in California, you can't walk down the street without spruikers urging you to sign up for "medicinal" marijuana. The next step is to legalise and tax itcompletely in order to try and?

You mean, experimenting over an extended period with its legal distribution — creating an unprecedented new legal class for novel recreational drugs — and only banning it on the basis of evidence? No, no other countries have done that.

There were degrees of opinion on BZP — and Auckland Hospital?

Anderton doesn't deserve the rap he gets

Yes he does. The consultation (which resulted in a preponderance of solid arguments against the ban) was entirely ignored. Anderton's mind had been made up, and the ban only took so long to implement because Clark had other things to do with her?

all the surplus stocks of BZP are being blended into re-pressed MDMA pills

Not convinced, for a range of reasons. One of them is that (so I'm told) you can't actually repress a pill, the compounding agents that make the pill stick together only work once. You'd have to add?

Giving Anderton a health job is like giving someone whose kid had been killed in the Army responsibility for defence.

Taiho there, Rich. I'm no fan of Anderton's methods nor his (dubious) achievements, but I'm pretty sure the majority of his policy decisions come from a place of sincere conviction,?

ACT on Campus is calling for the resignation of Justice Minister Simon Power, following his comments on Drug Reform policy on Thursday.

Responding to a set of drug law reform proposals laid out by the Law Commission, Mr. Power told The Dominion?

I'm sure Anderton's convictions are sincere, but equally sure that they are informed by personal emotion rather than any attempt to consider?

ACT on Campus is calling for the resignation of Justice Minister Simon Power

Meanwhile, ACT Not On Campus (prop. David Garrett) is calling for drug dealers to be hung from lampposts.

I thought you'd left and joined the LibZ, Mikee?

Also, Green party press release:
http://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/drug-laws-hurting-our-families

Anyone who's smoking enough cannabis for that [to be as bad as tobacco] to be true has other problems.

Except that we know that cannabis smokers breathe the smoke in more deeply and hold it in the lungs longer than tobacco smokers do. Add in that few reefers are?

Mr Key said he only knew of Mr Soros for his deeds as a currency speculator, rather than for his views on "weed".

And there you have it.
This is why John Key is siding with the Gangs on this. All the while the Gangs have a hold on the drugs?

I'm actually attacking the policies of the Jim Anderton Progressive Party. Unfortunately, when your self-named party has but the one member, it's hard to avoid an ad-hominem attack

You mean actions like backing needle exchanges and changing the law to reverse the onus of proof for the possession of needles??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAYckQbZWbU&NR=1

in it.

Definitely a pipe dream.

in it.

Definitely a pipe dream.

;)

Always with the negative. While yer lungs and liver say no, yer brain says yes much much louder.
Dennis Potter come back, I loved watching him smoke on the tele talking about death Oh so calmly and with great dignity.

Speak for your self. My brain once presented with?

Definitely a pipe dream

...or a wardrobe?
or ring- or river-world...?
or
a rabbit, a giraffe & a lion
go into a pub...

Remember:
Only Users Lose Drugs!
Be vigilant!

I shall now return to my
lofty addiction aerie

I am simply in control of my pleasures, they are not in control of me.

Yeah but, As I believe the Maasai Know a bit aboot the running, how are your ankles Peter? :)

a rabbit, a giraffe & a lion
go into a pub...

Rabbit, giraffe and a lion
walk?

Speak for your self

Oh we all do

And before you accuse me of not knowing what pleasure is and being all ascetic

Ah, the pre-emptive strike, a well known tactic of those who take themselves too seriously .... at times.
You didnt see the sarcasm tag then, I can?

we physiologists

Is that the royal we?

Speak for your self.

Just wanted to say only priests and politicians think they can speak for everyone.

I am simply in control of my pleasures, they are not in control of me.

Indeed, Peter, it sometimes seems your only vice is a delight in listing your virtues.

;-)

Dennis Potter come back, I loved watching him smoke on the tele talking about death Oh so calmly and with great dignity.

What a shame Potter's life and work was neither calm nor dignified. I watched The Singing Detective over the weekend — and while it's a very great piece?

Indeed, Peter, it sometimes seems your only vice is a delight in listing your virtues. ;-)

Peter's post kinda made me want to go out, buy some black tar heroin, and shoot it directly into my eyeball whilst eating a deep fried Mars bar. Help: I think I might have?

buy some black tar heroin, and shoot it directly into my eyeball whilst eating a deep fried Mars bar

But, but, what about the parasite? So.. maybe not the deep fried Mars bar at least?

And anyone who has had – longterm- a skin disease knows all about "writhing disgust and hatred at (their) own?

(O, wait a mo' – I think I might've had this conversation once before on PAS...but I still maintain, after eating part of one, it is almost the sickest fried food on the planet.*)

*Do not expect me to inform you of?

I ate haggis in my childhood (we werent told what it contained) and also black pudding. Delicious, the both of them-

mind you, you dont want to know about braxty...

What a shame Potter's life and work was neither calm nor dignified.

Was only talking about his end. I know of no one whose life is a dignified progression toward death.

it reeks of Potter's writhing disgust and hatred at his own body,

Yep got that.

human sexuality, and any?

buy some black tar heroin, and shoot it directly into my eyeball whilst eating a deep fried Mars bar

Danny Boyle is your master now?

Perhaps if we tried to use thoughts to encourage us to have more positive feelings we would achieve more. But that's just how I feel. That's from one of the people who is proud to say I don't know anything.

Oh dear, talk about "pride in ignorance"
Alexander Pope said?

My apologies, DHC's article related to the previous post (on vox pops), not this one.

Yeah, it sorta fits in this thread through, so feel free to discuss it (without being abusive of DHC).

This was pretty mad:

Brown no doubt embraces the maxim "comment is free but facts are?

I'm not the only one who says you should be wary of know-it-alls. Physicist Richard Feynman might have received the Nobel Prize for his work in quantum electrodynamics but he said he was never certain about anything, and reckoned progress came from a "satisfactory philosophy of ignorance".

Boy does she?

and Potter is clearly, uh, well... yeah, the man has issues with women, obviously. But he seems tortured by them rather than thoughtlessly accepting of them (ETA: the issues, not the women).

Up to a point. I'd grant that Potter was ferociously self-aware of his shitty attitudes towards women and?

It?s an issues paper, which means it is open for discussion and consultation. But Simon has shut down the discussion and basically told us there is no point in engaging in the consultation. All because John Key?

It?s an issues paper, which means it is open for discussion and consultation. But Simon has shut down the discussion and basically told us there is no point in engaging in the consultation.

Basically,that's disingenuous theatre and if Lees-Galloway doesn't know that he's got no business being in Parliament. Loathe?

What's disingenous about noting that a Minister has made crystal clear there is no point discussing what is in an official discussion paper? I don't recall hearing that, other than about the Brash 2025 report. What am I missing?

You're not missing anything so far as I see. Power can't?

any progressive, responsible government

So, umm.. wake me up when we get one of those again?

What's disingenous about noting that a Minister has made crystal clear there is no point discussing what is in an official discussion paper?

That's not what he's done, Sacha, and it's not worth being cute about it. You can say that Power's response is whorish (except for the insult to?

What's disingenous about noting that a Minister has made crystal clear there is no point discussing what is in an official discussion paper?

That's not what he's done, Sacha, and it's not worth being cute about it. You can say that Power's response is whorish (except for the insult to?

That's not what he's done, Sacha, and it's not worth being cute about it.

I don't personally have any doubt that Power's intention was to make the discussion go away asap — and when I'm on the same page as he Herald editorial on it, it's hard to say I'm?

You can be entirely cynical and say Power's greatest sin was excessive candour, when any experienced Minister would at least pretend to crack the spine before stuffing it under the wobbly leg of the coffee table.

Or you can quote what he said:

Justice Minister Simon Power immediately ruled out any?

There's not a single, solitary chance that as long as I'm the Minister of Justice we'll be relaxing drug laws in New Zealand

Beep beep beep.. here is your Hopeful News Bulletin for 7.30pm. Leading the news:

Justice Minister Simon Power has resigned, saying that it was the only way?

"There's not a single, solitary chance that as long as I'm the Minister of Justice we'll be relaxing drug laws in New Zealand," he said.

You see, what he is actually saying is that there are in fact multiple chances of the drug laws being relaxed – not just a?

I recall differently. That was also the year that Prime Minister Jenny Shipley attended the Hero Parade and spoke publicly there about the possibility of giving people in same-sex relationships "normal legal rights in matters of matrimonial property, adoption, inheritance and immigration."

Thanks for the mainsplain, Russell. I was slightly?

but it would be sheer wish fulfilment to suggest that same-sex 'registered partnerships' as recommended by that Law Commission issues paper would have been any kind of priority if we'd won a fourth term.

Probably not, but hardly the point.

The Prime Minister stood in front of a crowd of?

There's nothing that says "don't bother" like a pre-emptive declaration that it's all moot.

It worked for the smacking referendum.

Or I could try not being particularly naive, and suggest I know the man well enough (and the temperature of the party I've belonged to for twenty years) and surmise that it was never on the cards. Which is a shame, but I won't pretend to be particularly surprised.

Feel?

There's nothing that says "don't bother" like a pre-emptive declaration that it's all moot.

It worked for the smacking referendum.

Totally. All that advertising and lobbying and whining in the media. Completely shut down the debate.

The big difference is that the s59 repeal has mostly been a non-event. Prosecutions?

I know the man [Power] well enough (and the temperature of the party I've belonged to for twenty years) and surmise that it was never on the cards.

So we're all in agreement, then.

No one's saying it wasn't predictable; just that it displays bad faith.

"There's not a single, solitary chance that as long as I'm the Minister of Justice we'll be relaxing drug laws in New Zealand," he said.

Perhaps we are all missing something, some code which is known only to Freemasons or to members of the Secret Seven;?

"There's not a single, solitary chance that as long as I'm the Minister of Justice we'll be relaxing drug laws in New Zealand," he said.

Somehow that actually seems more honest to me than "There is a chance, after I weigh up all the evidence, that any drug shown rigorously?

Somehow that actually seems more honest to me

No one's saying it wasn't predictable; just that it displays bad faith.

Also that, this governmentals is all about "It's my way and the high and mighty way. experts in their field? Pah ! I listen to me, myself, and I."

Prime Minister John Key has defended the Government categorically ruling out relaxing drug laws, saying doing anything else would send the wrong message to children.

Stuff
Won't someone think of the rest of the country for a change?.
Why the fuck are we being pushed around by children?

Boy does she completely misunderstand what Feynmann means by that. And even what he is referring to. But hey, a physicist said it, and used the word "ignorance" so that means ignorance is A'ok.

Agreed. I have pointed out to a number of people that to do science the?

Marijuana was often a stepping stone to more aggressive drugs such as P or cocaine, he said.

Cocaine? In New Zealand? You'd have to be on a merchant banker's salary to afford it. Didn't The Economist say it was $700 a gram here?

I don't have sufficient motivation to cut?

it seems I don't have sufficient motivation to cut the cheese.

For that, Peter, the people of Scotland are thankful.
How I hate the stench of Haggis in the morning.

Marijuana was often a stepping stone to more aggressive drugs such as P or cocaine, he said.

I wonder if this is on DVD yet, y'know for the schools and all

Mr Key said young people should get involved in sports, culture or drama and not dabble in drugs

Damn,?

The Natianals, like labor are actually PRO drug ????????. Its just that the drug has to be piss.

This should be as plain to everyone as Doug?

"No one is probably arguing necessarily that if someone uses a small amount of marijuana that that is necessarily of itself the end of the world," Mr Key said

Decisive chap, isn't he?

Marijuana was often a stepping stone to more aggressive drugs such as P or cocaine, [Key] said.

I think I'm starting to get this. Part of being 'against drugs' is being 'against knowing anything about drugs'.

aggressnogenic

Word Of The Day!

I first across it in a press release from these health proffesionals http://www.alcoholaction.co.nz/pdfs/Alcohol%20Action%20Pamphlet.pdf

I've done a quick hunt through their site but cant find the actual quote.

Never mind ............ the shoe fits for the drug piss

But round about 40ish, I suddenly realised: the great drug was adrenalin. War & other forms of aggression were what drove the olds...?

If what you say is true, its interesting since we humans have a seemingly endless ability to test everything in the world for its capacity to get us high*. I suppose its possible that the multi generational passage through small islands out into the Pacific drove the idea out?

I'll be putting the plums to good use in my first batch of Slivovitz. All stones will be removed, we don't want to make cyanide.

Islander, I was told there was a seasonal brew down in Bluff, but I can't remeber where I got that.

But round about 40ish, I suddenly realised: the great drug was adrenalin. War & other forms of aggression were what drove the olds...

So. Pot's a good thing then?. And I don't mean Pol Pot.
Shotguns, iirc, are illegal under the Geneva convention but apparently the good ol' USandA thought the use?

is John Key the cultural vacuum on two legs he seems to be from afar?

Oh, he likes a bit of painting.

I'll leave it up to you to insert your own jokes about not being able to think outside the box(es).....

one side of the whakapapa is Bluff/Colac Bay for well over 300 years

I know I've said this before, Islander, but we are so totally related.

Re your idea about mead from honey. Honey needs extensive boiling to get it to ferment. It's packed with preservatives quite apart from the high sugar content and some of them are heat labile. After all the bees don't want the honey to go off in the hive. Any?

-I've had kereru literally fall out of one my nectar trees and squat on the ground, looking stupid. Tui – not so much: it's also noticeable?

totally on & OT – we are not the only animals that like to get wasted. Elephants are a classic example.

totally on & OT – we are not the only animals that like to get wasted. Elephants are a classic example.

And also, from personal observation, ducks, Hanuman langurs, and guinea pigs. All from fermented fruit. With their ultrafast metabolisms guinea pigs get sloshed very rapidly, and sober up just as?

But actually chimpanzees can & do vomit....I was told by a keeper at San Francisco Zoo that some are especially prone to motion sickness. Took her word for it.

firewater

aqua vitae – water of life
acqua alta – high water
aqua alter – even "higher" water?