Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The mathematics of marriage

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  • Gareth Ward,

    It really doesn't feel slippery slope to me - more "split stair like the ones on my deck but f*&$d if I know how to name them"; like this: Photo
    You walk down one step cause it's a good thing to do, and yes the subsequent steps can lead down to other steps, but there's actually a few routes down, and you might choose to stop at that nice middle area for a gin, and sometimes the many little steps stop you having to take one big one.

    There's a reason I don't write press release soundbites for a living though...

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1721 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Gareth Ward,

    LOL, I'd go so far as to say it's a slippery slope and we're only halfway up, trying to get to the top. It's been a hell of a battle, and there's more to come, and it could all fall apart in a catastrophe. But every step further up it makes the next one more likely, so it's still a "slippery slope argument". Stupid phrase.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8519 posts Report Reply

  • Moz, in reply to BenWilson,

    Now that I've been off and done some work I return and there's so much talking behind my back going on! I am horrified at you people. Honestly!

    Moz, I'm curious where you draw a line of calling something a poly relationship, as compared to merely causal and non-monogamous. Is there a line?

    My line is largely a personal one, with a bit of "however you want to describe your situation" thrown in. I don't think I know any really "no strings attached" sex people, everyone seems to be somewhere on the line between fcukbuddies and one true love. I've definitely started relationships with people I barely knew by jumping into sex with them, but I use the same term to describe the woman that's been sleeping in my bed for the last 10 years.

    There's also a gap between how I describe what I'm doing and how I use terms to describe other people. I stayed with one group who had an open marriage where one non-married couple had been together for about 20 years and they had lived together for almost as long. But they weren't polyamorous, and definitely not in a de facto marriage. Whatever. Fine, you're not even a couple, you're just Sam and Bob (names have been changed to irritate the difficult).

    To me it's partly about respect. I've had partners be unfaithful to me, once from within a polyamorous relationship, and to me that was damaging to the relationship. Other partners have not made that promise, and that's been fine. At heart to me polyamoury is about having some level of commitment to your partners. It doesn't have to be much, but it has to be kept. So fuckbuddies who do the "use barrier contraception and disclose risks" count to me if they want to. Someone "dating around" without being explicit about it, probably not.

    Sydney, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 477 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward, in reply to BenWilson,

    I'd go so far as to say it's a slippery slope and we're only halfway up, trying to get to the top.

    Like trying to walk up a slip'n'slide and then Bob McCoskrie comes hurtling down in his speedos...

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1721 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Gareth Ward,

    Bob McCoskrie comes hurtling down in his speedos...

    I imagine him to be more of a stripey full body one-piece kind of guy, possibly with a bathing hat. You can't be dakked in one of those, and no-one can see your nipples. He's probably not heard of the atomic wedgie.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8519 posts Report Reply

  • Moz, in reply to BenWilson,

    BenWilson: Bob McCoskrie comes hurtling down in his speedos...
    I imagine him to be more of a stripey full body one-piece kind of guy, possibly with a bathing hat.

    Something like this? http://www.anorak.co.uk/234387/news/flashback/winston-churchill-a-life-in-rare-and-memorable-pictures.html/?pid=4808#img

    Sydney, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 477 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Yes, perfect, although possible more undies underneath to disguise what an obviously cold day it was.

    Or any of these barring the guy at the back, who is clearly going straight to hell.

    Mind you, this one seems the most dak-proof. And the missus can make it for you, to keep her hands occupied and mind from idle licentious thoughts.

    this bloke looks altogether too happy, although his kit is perfect.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8519 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed, in reply to Gareth Ward,

    Like trying to walk up a slip'n'slide and then Bob McCoskrie comes hurtling down in his speedos...

    I was more thinking McCoskrie First would be coming to the beach with a tape measure.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4300 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand, in reply to BenWilson,

    You have such a wonderful range of interests, Ben, I yearn for those days of men's speedos. The only option now seems to be long, floppy shorts which cling to legs in all their clammy horror.

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2309 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Young, in reply to Gareth Ward,

    Not after breakfast, please, Gareth!

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Young, in reply to BenWilson,

    Or you, Geoff!

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Young, in reply to BenWilson,

    Stop this at once! McCoskrie is neither heteroerotic or homoerotic! Where are blackout bars when you really need them...? (Mentally visualises one over entirety of McCoskrie) Ah, much better.

    Incidentally, this appears to be the primary source of Bob's ruminations. It's a US conservative Catholic website (surprised? :) ) , Public Discourse.

    http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 370 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    It's interesting that NZ recognises polygamous marriages that take place outside NZ but doesn't allow people to enter into them

    It's a bit like my neighbours in California a decade ago, two women who'd been married for years and years (one of them used to be a guy)

    It's like law and society don't consider being married to someone of the same sex or to more than one person is a problem, but that the state change is the thing that's illegal

    I wonder if I marry someone else in another country do I just commit bigamy there? or here too? - want your poly marriage? off to South Africa with you for a quick nuptials and honeymoon

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2150 posts Report Reply

  • anth,

    These complex relationships that have been discussed suggest that in addition to the mathematics of marriage we need to consider the database engineering perspective.

    Since Nov 2006 • 77 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Young,

    Well, it looks like the same-sex marriage equality angle will soon be fixed. At which point, we can laugh derisively at Oz and snicker at how backward they are. That's what you get for electing a Ginger PM, I suppose...

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 370 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Geoff Lealand,

    Nice. I was thinking that shit through yesterday, and remembering precisely how normative database design ends up being in practice. Ironically, making the database more and more flexible is a process called "normalizing".

    ETA: Link back should be to Anth's comment.

    ETA2: The comments thread is great, most of the things I thought of reading it came up. Best one was:

    You never store Business Logic in your Database!

    ETA: Also, the transitivity of marriage stood out like a sore thumb as a false assumption

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8519 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Attachment Attachment Attachment

    Is today Ella Kite’s birthday?
    The many peeps of many lands do differ…
    as this old book of mine shows

    1: Peeps at Many Lands – Oceania
    2: Ex libris plate – Ella Kite
    3: Title page – 1912

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 4952 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Were they collecting for gorse lined gloves in the Self Denial Appeal?

    At Anth: Database logic. Can't fault it. That guy, gay, gal, gil has thought about it. It WOULD be a bureacratic nightmare. Maybe much easier if we were all just "us's". - No connections to anyone else inside the bureaucracy.

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1496 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Young,

    Ha! Caught the phobes lying about something!

    According to FF, good fundies "support" civil unions now because they offer substantive relationship equality to LGBT couples in the context of legislative guarantees. In which case, how does McCoskrie explain French antigay organisation Avenir de la Culture attacking the French Catholic Bishops for wanting strengthened French PACS and opposing even this weak 'concession' to LGBT 'equality' on the basis that:

    "The Pact of Civil Solidarity (PACS) to which Bishop Daucourt refers is a contract, considered far less than a civil union, that can be granted both to homosexuals and heterosexuals, which can be dissolved at will by either party, and gives tax advantages to the couple as if they were married"



    Matthew Hoffman: "French Catholic Bishops endorsing homosexual unions, undermining pro-family cause" Lifesite: 16.01.2013: http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/french-catholic-bishops-endorsing-homosexual-unions-undermining-pro-fa

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 370 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Goddness gracious!

    Way to paddle a waka eh?

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • ChrisW, in reply to Islander,

    Attachment

    Way to paddle a waka eh?

    It was quite popular paddling them that way 'round a hundred-odd years ago, even in Kai Tahu, judging by this detail of an oil-on-canvas observation on the upper reaches of Lake Wakatipu by Eugene von Guérard in 1877-79. ;-)

    Gisborne • Since Apr 2009 • 833 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to ChrisW,

    NAH, THEY were REVERSING SAIL- you can see that by the bloke standing up and the forecrew holding the waka steady-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • ChrisW,

    Either way, I have my doubts that von Guérard's observations were authentic ...

    Gisborne • Since Apr 2009 • 833 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1496 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed, in reply to Ross Mason,

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8199943/Lobbyist-links-gay-marriage-to-crime-rise-in-NZ

    If McVicar's comments weren't so deadly serious, they'd be farcical. Is he on a dry run for a CCCP candidacy?

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4300 posts Report Reply

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