Interesting, but I wasn't entirely convinced by some of his conclusions.

He also said in parting: "You just tell them I sleep well at night, put?

Oh, it became very much about the establishment protecting the "integrity" of the system.

For a child?

A family member of mine worked for the police at the time of the Crewe murders and is?

The?

What is interesting is how the police and?

Ae. Not this was a marker in the sand but it was a very public case of the courts passing the reasonable doubt test (finally) instead of accepting the Police case as default guilty.

Discussion after dinner on Saturday night, involving one of David Tamihere's sons (who's a close friend), another participant said that a former?

That sad thing is, it wasn?t the courts. It was a politically-ordered Royal Commission.

As I?

I'll add a shout out for Wazzo Ghoti, who in two-and-a-half busy minutes fingered AAT for every unsolved crime known to humanity but cleared him of the Crewe murders. Can't remember the name of the song, but looking at the track?

I thought Bain was possibly fortunate to be acquitted at retrial, but I have?

Peter Ellis. But other than that, I quite agree. Horrifying that such a case could be cooked up when it wasn?t ever clear that a crime had been committed.

Gah. I could not even see that. Ta.

I am?

But it's not just a matter of opinion. It's a matter of record that the investigation breached good and ethical practice?

I wouldn't go that far, but really I think the media needs to have a good hard look at itself over day?

Possibly – but I also think a pretty damn good reason to oppose state-sanctioned murder is that (AFAIK) there's no empirical evidence that it?

Even more than that, I'm trying to remember who said (and not at all facetiously) that if you're going to commit?

I have trouble understanding how you can *know* something and yet not be able muster the evidence that substantiates it.

Now, I suppose it's comforting to feel that when the police fit someone up, their motivation?

And even more interesting how he's now one of its staunchest critics.

Let me throw another family anecdote into this: my grandfather, a judge, died in August 1973. I spent much of his last days with him, as did my mother and?

Not getting any disagreement from me there, Sofie. And I don't think the class of cops I know would disagree with you either — because, you know, when someone's freedom and reputation is at stake (and they've been accused of horrific?

Well, say no more for me.

We could find out by asking Russell. The man, in my opinion, has integrity, doesn't lie and if truth be told, is?

Exxcellent. I don?t think he did it but really, I would rather cops do a fantastic job proving he did/didn?t. I shouldn?t have to be perturbed constantly because I care about each?

But we are just human. So it's said. OK, I grant that. How to live according to ideals of which I don't like the consequences of, at the moment. So self sacrifice or not umm.... That's a NO. Did?

-the thing that has always got me about that case is – the ketch.
Water-taxi drivers dont make that kind of error AND a similar vessel, according to description, was seen elsewhere in ANZ waters...

I have never met a boatie that won't get agreement on types of boats. Sloop/ Ketch/ single mast /brass portholes.......

Yes – he's rather clear on the difference between being charged with an offense and convicted of same and all that wet liberal pussy "presumption of innocence" foofy tosh. I'm no so sure about a disturbing number of other people who should know?

Point being.I'd trust his experience. The man is actually an expert on Media.

Thomas's rifle was the __only one__?

Why was the eyewitness testimony a red herring? Various people on the night in question saw a man acting inappropriately towards women. It couldn't have been Watson because the description of the man bore no resemblance to Watson.The man was apparently dropped off on the same boat that Smart?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a9bISXCLA8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWCblpVAu0k&feature=relmfu

It's unclear what you know or don't know about the Watson case. If you have read Hunter's book about the case, you might be less inclined to put so much store in the DNA evidence. I'm not sure what you're getting at when you refer to "the nature in?

Keith Hunter actually said on the Media7 recording tonight that he believed the Watson case embodied a greater miscarriage of justice than that suffered by Thomas.

(way way back: also Minnie Dean...)

I'd add Philip Sturm, another case that glared false conviction – essentially railroaded into a cell and bankruptcy because the police didn't like him. Guilty of being?

I must confess I don't know much about this case other than what's been reported. On that basis, I wasn't aware that wrongful conviction was likely. Sturm at least had the luxury – for want of a better word -?

Russell, is that interview available online and when will it be screened on TV7?

I tend to agree with Hunter, though I was fairly?

As for the expert testimony material spiel, as you put it, maybe I am being an arsehole, but that's a separate issue from that which I raised, which is a question about how we assess the reliability of such testimony. You might well?

I don't know if this is a costing issue (too costly?

I think that's a general tendency in groups under pressure. My?

Tough ask, I admit, but I know I wouldn't want to be 'the main suspect' under such circumstances.

Is that meant to inspire confidence? Legal counsel for David Bain found the hoops too onerous but as soon as they travelled to the other side of the world they discovered that Bain had been the?

the show's guest independent forensic scientist addresses that.

Other countries have a fully separate prosecution service, rather than combining the functions as we do.

And we know how well that works in the US.
Also, the Police here only act as the prosecutors for some offences. Serious offences are prosecuted by the Crown, but their case is only?

I was talking about the stipulative nature of how we define the burden of proof in a legal setting (and how the burden of proof shifts post trial). I was not saying the system is perfect.

some interesting thoughts expressed on that during the show too.

Well, no. This is precisely why we have a system of "Innocent until proven guilty" (not all jurisdictions are similar); we have chosen a system?

There's no legal sense of guilt in the example I gave (unless there is some rule about leaving some guavas,?

You feel guilty about eating all of the guavas because you are guilty of eating all of the guavas.

We're?

In talking about the law and courts, "guilty" can only mean?

A British cop, an American cop and a Chinese cop are sitting around a table drinking tea and swapping 'war stories'. A report comes in of a bear in the forest. The British cop says, "Leave it to me",?

Fair point.

That's only the case if you think that the different types of guilt are, in essence, the same thing, but the system we are under the jurisdiction of allows?

And when people who commit crimes escape punishment, that also?

In summary, including Guy Wallace and his passengers Morresey and Dyer, at least eight witnesses are known to have reported seeing the ketch, or a boat of similar description, off Furneaux on New?

Issues to do with the legitimacy of laws is a separate issue from the legitimacy of a judicial system and the verdicts its?

Also, most people do in fact?

Well, good luck finding a society, whose rule of law agrees with your definitions, to live in , then.

Bwahaha! the irony, it burns!

Really? The argument that some laws are not law because they are unjust is pretty safe. It has, after all, the backing of Nuremberg.

Well, Keith, your book does discuss the facts, at length. And you've already mentioned that several people who are au fait with boats said that Ben and Olivia were dropped off at a ketch. Then there were those?

Targets
[Reducing the number of cases resolved in court by 19 per cent ? whereby lower end crimes could be dealt with by pre-charge warnings or the community justice panel.

What is a Community Justice Panel ? And is a pre-charge warning?

When I was in the UK a few years back I had occasion to call the police as I had lost my wallet and as you all know,?

Me too, to be honest.

I can hear the chime of the Convention Centre. Cos we just need one m'kay

monorail.....

Yes, your right that I would. It is a stipulative definition, after?

No body of evidence ever determines one (and only one) explanation. This is because there will be a range of different hypotheses, all of which are consistent with the evidence, that would be explanatory (cf. W. O. Quine, "Two?

By this point, you have managed to reduce legality to tautology, and emptied it of any relation to broader society. In particular,?

Dear lord, what a mad assumption!

Except it is a pretty weird assumption when you look at the practice of the courts. Often trials hinge on points of law rather than matters of fact. Often these two activities?

I understood your meaning perfectly well, thank you Matthew. But it seem to me you were using jargon to make your answer seem more substantial than it was.

I do also think Keith's comment was somewhat intemperate.

The courts are, trivially, engaged in a?

Possibly.
I am very interested in your comments visavis expert witnesses.

Are you actually telling me that specialist knowledge (whether in regard to identifying boats or whitebait) is irrelevant? Compromised by people being expert??