Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Veitch

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  • Mrs Skin,

    Before everyone freaks out too much I should add that there are defences to a defamation action, including truth and honest opinion.

    the warmest room in the h… • Since Feb 2009 • 168 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    Around 20 young men a year die just in Mt Eden prison

    Are you sure?

    as euphemistic as it sounds, reckless disregard causing injury is likely to be (without having read this post or any other articles thoroughly) the lesser charge in exchange for the guilty plea. Repeatedly kicking someone in the back while they're lying on the floor would be intentional rather than reckless and the original charges probably reflected that.

    It wasn't. It was the harshest charge with which Veitch was charged. They dropped 7 lesser charges, but that charge stayed the same throughout.

    The actual offence is injuring with reckless disregard for the safety of others.

    By pleading guilty to that offence it implies that Veitch accepts that he intentionally assaulted his girlfriend, that he intended to kick her in the back, and that that assault caused an injury. It implies that he does not accept that he intended the kick to break her back.

    [and of course, the charge implies that police don't think he did either, or at least don't think they could prove it]

    The basic heirarchy of assaults is as follows:

    Assault (1 year)
    Assault on a child or by a male on a female (2 years)
    Assault with intent to injure (3 years)
    Injuring with reckless disregard for the safety of others (5 years)
    Injuring with intent to injure (5 years)
    Wounding with reckless disregard (7 years)
    Wounding with intent to injure (7 years)
    Injuring with intent to wound (10 years)
    Wounding with intent to wound (14 years)
    Attempted murder (14 years)

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report Reply

  • Heather Hapeta,

    Sorry tony but I keep thinking of the old saying ... 'me think the man doth protest too much"

    i'm so glad i'm not married to you as i would be very worried about my future.

    New Zealand • Since Mar 2009 • 9 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Yeah, nonetheless I think I'll do Russell a solid and keep some of my honest opinions to myself.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    From Mrs Skin's link page:

    There are a number of defences available to someone who is being sued for defamation, including:

    - that the statement was true ("truth" or "justification")
    - that it was a statement of honest opinion on a matter of public interest ("honest opinion" or "fair comment"), or
    - that the statement was "privileged" in some way

    Anyway, don't freak out. I'm just trying to avoid specific allegations like those being sprayed around in the comments of (ahem) certain other blogs.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • ScottY,

    Seven failed attempts? That is some serious incompetence!

    I have my doubts about the number, and about what he considers an "attempt".

    It also speaks to an ego out of control.

    It's always hard to know exactly what the judge took into account when sentencing, so I prefer not to pass comment on the sentence.

    On the other hand I like a spectacle, so if a lynchmob is going to gather outside his house I'll be there with my pitchfork.

    West • Since Feb 2009 • 794 posts Report Reply

  • Mrs Skin,

    The actual offence is injuring with reckless disregard for the safety of others

    OK, that makes sense. Thanks Graeme.

    the warmest room in the h… • Since Feb 2009 • 168 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    I'll defer to others, but I recall that honest opinion, at least, is not a complete defence to a defamation action.

    Thanks for the link to Hodge's comment, he'll know how Vetich's crimes compare but the fact that the sentencing guidlines have a maximum custodial sentence of 5 years and Vetich got a non-custodial still seems very odd to me.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Savidge,

    I'm tempted to say something defamatory (albiet ruthlessly honest) to see if the prick sics his lawyers on me (or Russell - sorry dude, collateral damage).

    Then I could stand up in court - with the media rabble standing by salivating - and say it again and again and again...

    Somewhere near Wellington… • Since Nov 2006 • 324 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    Two things:

    How in the Hell does someone admit to what Veitch admitted to and walk out without even an assault conviction? Reckless disregard causing injury?! Are we now to think of this incident as an... accident? I'm speechless. The notion that justice is blind has, IMO, been again revealed as a not-very-funny joke.

    Secondly, I really wonder if all the talk of suicide attempts wasn't just a smart gambit on the part of the defence team, knowing that when the time came it cuold be used to leverage their client out of a custodial sentence.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • ScottY,

    Okay, I need everyone to be careful about what they say and not make actionable claims about Veitch

    I promise to behave now - though I don't think anyone's said anything in this threat that can't be justified in some way.

    West • Since Feb 2009 • 794 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    The actual offence is injuring with reckless disregard for the safety of others.

    Well, that'll teach me for listening to the news media (again.)

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    Just a couple of thoughts about Veitch

    1 It's not OK
    That should be a given but it isn't. He has admitted violence on his partner that resulted in injury. It is simply not acceptable in our society and the sentence reflects that (although some may argue that last).

    2 He was in a bad relationship.
    This is not meant in any way to excuse his actions - but - relationships fail and most times there are two sides to the failure and almost always it is extremely difficult for outsiders to understand exactly what happened. There seems to be some feeling that it was all his fault and frankly I don't think anyone knows, probably not even the two involved really know anymore. That said, failure of a relationship is not an excuse for violence, physical or mental - it's not OK.

    3 Lawyers are paid to protect their clients
    What the Veitch legal team do is done to protect their client. It may or may not be what you or I call moral or "right". Personally I find it best to mute them when they speak.

    4 I'm not sure I have a 4 but I just get the feeling that there is a culture around that says if you can do a cool marketing job then it's all OK. It doesn't really matter what has been done if you can "spin" or market it well the it will be OK.

    But it isn't OK.

    Oh I did have another point. Again this is not meant in any way to excuse Veitch but the fact that his victim broke a vertebrae doesn't really tell you much about the nature of the attack. It is alarmingly easy to break bones and for some people even easier than others. I have no idea how violent the attack was but I would be cautious about inferring from the broken bone much other than an impact occurred. that such an impact should not have occurred at all should be obvious.

    If any of the above sounds like I like Veitch or am excusing him in any way my apologies. I have nothing but disgust for his actions and nothing but disgust for the way he has behaved since those actions, first by not admitting it when it happened then after he was accused and now after he has been sentenced.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4461 posts Report Reply

  • Alastair Jamieson,

    Speaking of the SST (I love how it acronimises just like the Sunday Star Times - destiny in a name, or two), have they asked for his head on a stick yet?

    Last year they (the trust) were keen for him to go to prison if convicted.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 99 posts Report Reply

  • richard,

    I am trying to think what you say about Veitch that was defamatory, but worse than what he just pled guilty. It is a pretty short list.

    Not looking for New Engla… • Since Nov 2006 • 268 posts Report Reply

  • JLM,

    " methinks he doth protest too much."

    Very apt, and I suppose the handlers are trying to avoid this, unsuccessfully it sems -

    "Reputation, reputation, reputation! O, I have lost my reputation, I have lost the immortal part of myself, and what remains is bestial!"

    Judy Martin's southern sl… • Since Apr 2007 • 241 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    3410 - this is an assault conviction. It's just a more serious one that has the injuring in it instead of the word assault.

    [see my post at the top o' the page]

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    And now I see that you have ...

    Oh well.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    There are not enough references to Cheese on this thread.
    This Guy got 180 hours community service and ordered to pay reparation for wilfully damaging a bag of feta cheese.
    Enough is enough I tell you.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Stuart Coats,

    On a happier note, thanks to all concerned for the PA Social last night - great to meet some of you at last....

    I'd like to second that, because I've had a crap day and I'd like to end it on a happy note!
    Great to meet some of you. Thanks to Alastair and Keith for leading to the excellent Malaysian place for dinner. Good, cheap Malaysian food - it was just like being in Wellington!

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 192 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    3410 - this is an assault conviction. It's just a more serious one that has the injuring in it instead of the word assault.

    Thanks. I see that now.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Beard,

    Many thanks, Graeme, for clarifying the hierarchy. The legalese is pretty opaque to some of us ("injuring with intent to wound" vs "wounding with intent to injure"?), and I was trying to find out for myself what the wording of the charge actually meant.

    Google has some interesting results:

    "reckless disregard causing injury"

    -> about 200 results

    "reckless disregard causing injury" -veitch

    -> no results

    It's interesting how every media outlet seems to have reproduced one report verbatim, and that it doesn't match the actual wording of the charge. Without your list, I would have concluded that the charge had been invented solely for cases of veitching.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1040 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    Graeme, I'd started writing before your comment was posted. I do wish that the "Preview" button would update the page as well as previewing the comment.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Surely what Veitch has now admitted doing would in and of itself tend to: "lower a person in the estimation of right-thinking members of society, ... cause the person to be shunned or avoided, or... cause the person to be exposed to hatred, contempt or ridicule."

    But hey, I understand that our glorious justice system lets one protect as much reputation as one can buy.

    I really wonder if all the talk of suicide attempts wasn't just a smart gambit on the part of the defence team, knowing that when the time came it could be used to leverage their client out of a custodial sentence.

    I couldn't possibly comment..

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I do wish that the "Preview" button would update the page as well as previewing the comment.

    Great idea for the cactus elves!

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

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