Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: When that awful thing happens

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  • p forrester jarvie,

    i did not "take" anything. I was MERELY trying to think for a moment outside of the box, as one says.. if YOU think those way-overdressed, totally gussied-up dudes who descend upon every scene of armed crime do not shout with every new creak of their armour HERE IS WHERE THE GOD OF VIOLENCE DOES DWELL and THIS IS WHAT HIS MINIONS SHALL LOOK LIKE then i'd like you to try and express what you think they do shout: "John Boy! Think of the FAMILY!" maybe?

    Since Feb 2009 • 84 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks,

    i did not "take" anything. I was MERELY trying to think for a moment outside of the box

    Well it took you five 'Post reply's in a row to merely try to think for a moment. If you didn't take something, perhaps you should.

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1165 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    P: didn't mean to insult. You're welcome to think outside of the box but it can be hard tracking one argument over five posts.

    if YOU think those way-overdressed, totally gussied-up dudes who descend upon every scene of armed crime do not shout with every new creak of their armour HERE IS WHERE THE GOD OF VIOLENCE DOES DWELL and THIS IS WHAT HIS MINIONS SHALL LOOK LIKE then i'd like you to try and express what you think they do shout: "John Boy! Think of the FAMILY!" maybe?

    Agreed - but sadly I think by the time the AOS are out, safety and reduced visibility trumps non-confrontational sartorial stylings.

    However, it'd be quite cool if they actually did shout like that when they arrived on the scene. Either that or have a nominated singer to croon out "Don't Take Your Guns To Town"...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1611 posts Report Reply

  • Stewart,

    "When they kick in your front door
    How you gonna come?
    With your hands on your head
    or on the trigger of your gun?"

    maybe the Clash would be a bit too provocative?

    Te Ika A Maui - Whakatane… • Since Oct 2008 • 577 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    I/S, without getting into a "neener neener, I was right, you were wrong" on it, that's exactly the response I said you'd get. For exactly the reasons I gave. And your hysterical tone in that post is no less supported by the facts than was your hysterical assertion in here that the PM was obligated in law to notify the House.

    I've emailed you privately, too. Of all the ridiculous claims made in this thread, your statement that the military can prowl the streets with impunity is now topping them all for general idiocy, not to mention its offensive suggestions about the integrity of several of our social organs.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Of all the ridiculous claims made in this thread, your statement that the military can prowl the streets with impunity is now topping them all for general idiocy, not to mention its offensive suggestions about the integrity of several of our social organs.

    Wait, you weren't getting into "neener neener, I was right, you were wrong"? Where weren't you doing this?

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    Kyle, read his blog post, then get back to me. I'm not talking about what he said here.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    And, yes, I didn't word that very well. I meant "relating to" as opposed to "in", though it was initially in this thread that I/S started claiming that using the LAVs was use of military force in line with the Defence Act.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    (like)

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    That was directed at Sams comment..

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    I/S: I think the Irish have a similar law. All through the NI conflict, the Irish Army would patrol the border with a couple of Gardai (police) in tow in case they found anyone arrestworthy.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    Thought these might be interesting to have a look at.

    Easy corrections to current gun laws would be a psyc test, raise the age to 18yrs and have MSSAs & handguns stored in an armoury at a Club/Police Station/NZDF. Of course observing the existing laws and having those faceless beuracrats tracking down expired lifetime license holders could be a good start too.

    http://www.iansa.org/index.htm

    See the two right hand boxes.
    Laws on civilian ownership of handguns in 16 countries

    http://www.iansa.org/documents/Schoolshootings96-09.doc

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    Of course observing the existing laws and having those faceless beuracrats tracking down expired lifetime license holders could be a good start too.

    You mean as they've been doing? From 50,000 people who didn't renew their licences in 2002, they've whittled it down to around 1,000 who they "can't find". That sounds remarkably like "those faceless beuracrats" [sic] doing precisely what you want.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    And those documents are interesting. What they tell me is that of those 16 countries, NZ is 6th for deaths-per-100,000 of population from handguns, and has some of the strictest requirements for getting a handgun. The only box that's not ticked, being "Medical/Psych Report", is somewhat covered under what's involved in getting a firearms licence in the first place.

    Let's face reality: our firearms laws are not woefully inadequate, no matter what Alpers might have to say. Getting any kind of MSSA or handgun legally takes time, and lots of paperwork. If you buy rifles and shotguns, your details will be recorded, and there will be an associated paper trail. If your firearms are stolen, there is a legal requirement to advise the police. There's a legal requirement to advise the police of a change of address. There are storage requirements. And, lastly, firearms crime is not a huge problem here. A single incident should not be sufficient justification to try an experiment that's failed, horribly and expensively, in the countries that have tried introducing such measures within the last decade. We've got enough other stuff to spend money on, and if we held true to Canada's form we could afford the Waterview tunnel option with the sums that would be wasted.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade,

    I hear what you're saying Matthew, it's just every six months (my guess) a cop seems to be faced down with a shotgun of some description. I don't think that's cool for an unarmed force.

    Gunlaw everywhere may be shit, probably is? If you and me were cops should we be worried?

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    Matthew, from your link, it was interesting to see John Howat described as an expert. He is of course the long-time Chair of the lobby group COLFO, whos factions are breaking up. NZ Pistol Assoc & the Antique Arms Assoc have jumped ship.

    "The question I would ask is who is selling those stocks, those magazines and pistol grips? That is irresponsible." Howat is talking about his competition here and doesn't call it illegal or that it should be so, but being irresponsible. If I may, he is saying - "Don't let them sell them, let me".

    As for Tony McLeod Police National Manager. Jan hasn't hidden himself or surrendered his 'collection', Ihaka has brought attention to someone who holds responsibility for allowing this situation to exist. The clear facts of this situation make a lie of this statement by McLeod.

    Of course there is no added cost to any Firearms restrictions. User pays and not to mention the productivity of not having a city frozen by fear.

    OMG - " And, lastly, firearms crime is not a huge problem here."

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • A S,

    Matthew, from your link, it was interesting to see John Howat described as an expert.

    Well, John Howat would certainly be more of an expert than Alpers. Howat at least seems to know which end of a firearm is which.

    OMG - " And, lastly, firearms crime is not a huge problem here."

    Matthew is right. Firearms crime is not a huge issue here, I don't quite see what value "OMG" adds to it.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2007 • 269 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Guess it's easier to charge the girlfriend eh?

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    Molenaar was a legal firearms 'collector' and all that entails at the same time as being a drug dealer.

    "Molenaar had been growing and dealing cannabis for more than 10 years, Mr Drew said."

    2002 was the year old firearms licences lapsed with the new system coming into being.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10573821

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    Just T:

    "Molenaar had been growing and dealing cannabis for more than 10 years, Mr Drew said."

    And the funny thing is, Molenaar was strongly anti-P:

    His loathing for drug-dealing gang members came to a head in 2003 when his brother, Johan, reportedly killed himself after an alleged battle with the methamphetamine P.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5446 posts Report Reply

  • A S,

    Molenaar was a legal firearms 'collector' and all that entails at the same time as being a drug dealer.

    "Molenaar had been growing and dealing cannabis for more than 10 years, Mr Drew said."

    2002 was the year old firearms licences lapsed with the new system coming into being.

    Was there a point in there somewhere?

    Molenaar possessed a lifetime license with a 'collector' endorsement prior to 2002, so what? Presumably at the point at which his license was issued, he wasn't dealing drugs.

    The fact that he didn't renew his license in 2002 points to the fact that the new laws would have prevented him from getting a license. That appears to suggest that the new laws were indeed robust enough to stop criminals from legally owning firearms.

    If your point was it didn't stop him having firearms, I'd simply point out to you that criminals illegally owning firearms has always been a problem. No law, anywhere in the world, has ever solved that problem, apparently because criminals don't mind breaking the law. Who ever would have thought it?!

    Wellington • Since Nov 2007 • 269 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    A S did you have a malt sandwitch for lunch?

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade,

    "Molenaar had been growing and dealing cannabis for more than 10 years

    That's a long time for any business. Stressful?

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • A S,

    A S did you have a malt sandwitch for lunch?

    No. Should we ask the same question of you?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2007 • 269 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    Chalk another one up to our Firearms licensing laws.

    Ah - that good bloke test, again. "He seemed a decent sort of fellow, he didn't say very much. He didn't seem unstable at all."

    WTF? - "This has happened before. This isn't an isolated incident. In February there were a couple of shots in the night and police were at his house the next morning."

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2547859/Paraplegic-gunman-known-to-police

    The solution ain't hard. User pays, psyc test, firearms competency test & registar of firearms.

    I went to primary school across the road for a wee bit as a kid & a few others here went to the high school he back onto.

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

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