But?

qualms about contributing to a charity that was doing what should properly be done by the state in a civilised country

If people are voluntarily helping each other out, why should the government stop them, by forcing people to help each other out instead?

There might be arguments to be?

The issue of the cut from the charity funds for "non-charity" purposes needs clarifying and more and more we are seeing the creaming of funds.

Yes. I think this is more of a problem with the charitable sector in general than anything else.

But a national servicee (aka Fire Service) would a useful addition to the country surely.

It's hard enough to deal with the medical emergency calls they have now without making NZFS the ambulance provider to the nation. Remember that about 85% of fire fighters in NZ are volunteers, in the?

If people are voluntarily helping each other out, why should the government stop them, by forcing people to help each other out instead?

I don't personally object to the role of charities, at all. I'm involved in a charitable event later this month myself. But surely you can see that?

18% looks low, but maybe that spending on PR, marketing, and events gives you enough awareness that the total amount in the end is much higher?

18% looks low, but maybe that spending on PR, marketing, and events gives you enough awareness that the total amount in the end is much higher – it wouldn't be easy to raise $350k without any level of awareness for example?

I wonder if that's the problem. If your operating?

Charity Navigator

What is an acceptable ratio then? It seems a bit rough to make claim that their's is "wrong" without defining what is realistically possible.

That's shockingly low.

As a comparison, Pub Charity last year returned about 40% of its income back to the community. But about another 25% went to?

In the discussion here, some readers expressed qualms about contributing to a charity that was doing what should properly be done by the state in a civilised country.

In a "civilised country", I personally think it would be damn nice if no school ever had to fund raise for anything,?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/social-issues/news/article.cfm?c_id=87&objectid=10586637

Four cents in the dollar on admin, 18 cents on marketing and cost of collection, 78 cents directly to programmes.

That's a bit better, isn't it?

I wonder if that's the problem. If your operating expenses are 80% of revenue, and such a large chunk of that goes in marketing, advertising and PR aimed at bringing in the revenue in in the first place ... isn't the model broken?

But the spend is to GET the?

At the least, as PA reader Dave Nicholas suggested by email, the Charities Commission could usefully do the following:

Sounds like a member's bill right there.

Alternatively, the register is publicly searchable, and so it could be done privately. But it shouldn't have to be.

There is a big difference between charities like Oxfam which are committed to addressing broad issues of?

But to get the shrinking charity money you need to promote your organisation (your brand).

And to continue the rather icky-PR speak, some charities have well-established brands and a high degree of public recognition. Am I the only person who hadn't heard of Kids Can until a week ago, and?

Has anybody identified any need for the raincoats and shoes that KidsCan provides? It looks to me like another opportunity for Adidas (which supplies the branded coats) to obtain yet more free publicity.

Yes, and the No.1 Shoe Warehouse seems to supply the shoes, for its own promotional return. It?

If I were to price a job, of almost any kind, as 25% wages 25% expenses/materials and 50% profit I would consider it "Skimming" So, surely an 80/20 split is not outrageous considering the "product" is just the feel good factor of giving?.

If this was a business and not?

But surely you can see that there's a problem here with where the money actually goes?

Oh, yes. And the suggestion about publishing ratios is a good one. You already mentioned Charity Navigator, which I often use when I'm giving to US-based charities. I'd love a New Zealand version.

The?

What about the fact that all religious institutions get charitable status? Mormons. Catholic schools. The Maximum Institute.

Remove their status and get them to pay rates and, like someone said, the Women's Refuge could cancel their annual appeal.

I think all charitable trusts are exceptions as?

And what of political lobby groups that think they're charities, like For The Sake Of Our Children, and the Sensibles?

Fair question, Deep Red, and I've long been an advocate of a public register of lobbyists (and statutory disclosure of who pays their bills), but I don't want to jack?

Hope they're a cost-effective recruiting mechanism, because they just make me want to go slap a whale. :)

It's funny because it's true ....

Hope they're a cost-effective recruiting mechanism

According to Close-Up last week on this topic, they are the worst of the worst. It can be up to a years worth of your Direct Credits before the Charity sees any of it.

Perhaps the Govt's best play would be providing a centralised, free source to market charities. www.charities.nz or similar with a big billboard, TV etc campaign behind it

Perhaps the government could arrange for some support for the already existing, completely free, charitable resource website which does that, DonateNZ, link here,?

think he said if you were sign up by a chap in the street you'd be two years' membership paying that guy's wages.

What about the fact that all religious institutions get charitable status? Mormons. Catholic schools. The Maximum Institute.

Despite its extensive history of politicking, Maxim is indeed a registered charity.

Its return shows $1.2 million in income last year, almost all of it in donations.

Family First's [[http://www.register.charities.govt.nz/CharitiesRegister/NocAnnualReturnSummary.aspx?nocid=44ac2886-8083-dd11-a406-0015c5f3da29&ref=FAM00002&cid=4bba90db-db89-dc11-98a0-0015c5f3da29|return for the year to June?

the No.1 Shoe Warehouse seems to supply the shoes

F'r real? Because the first thing I thought of when I read that was the Vimes "Boots" theory of social injustice. No 1 shoes are cheap and fashionable but are made of sweaty vinyl and don't last much longer than a?

Despite its extensive history of politicking, Maxim is indeed a registered charity.

Oops, Maxim not Maximum.

Isn't its charitable purpose religious, though? Isn't that why they're members of the anti-bum sex brigade?

Their first value appears to be transcendence.

Neither derived any income from membership fees. Both organisations, which like to depict themselves as the voice of the silent majority, have no membership.

Oooh, nice. I'm going to use that.

. . . if you were sign up by a chap in the street you'd be two years' membership paying that guy's wages.

Steven Crawford posted some interesting info re. Greenpeace the other day, particularly the claim that street pimps are paid $16 per hour. When I was a member?

Someone is having a quiet joke here .

Note also that the location at 49 Cape Horn Rd Hillsborough is the former home of Keith Hay and one of the officers is Jeanette Hay.

Just as well that under National all?

(And then I guess you try not to think about the young Chinese women working in some toxic rubber factory...)

Despite its extensive history of politicking, Maxim is indeed a registered charity.

Its return shows $1.2 million in income last year, almost all of it in donations.

It gets better! Their fourth biggest donor is Middleton Grange School. Private school, government funding, etc.

I can't help but wonder...the Big Night In can't have been cheap to execute...wouldn't it have made more cents (see what I did there?) to just donate the money they spent running the thing instead of passing off a 23 hour ad as fundraising?

I can't remember where I heard?

At that rate, it takes two years just to pay a day's wages to the person who signed you up.

I've worked in the past as a street fundraiser for Greenpeace, for about a year part time, and know that their business model worked on the basis that it took?

And while I donate, when able, to NZ Foundation for the Blind, St John's, the Cancer Society, and the Arthritis Foundation, I rarely donate to any other charity. SAR occaisionally; Amnesty Int, ditto, but I am immune to appeals featuring cute kids?

Interesting that Maxim beneficiaries are listed as "children/young people"

Someone is having a quiet joke here .

No, at least not a funny one. Maxim officially is an educational charity, a status it justifies by publishing pamphlets on the state of education.

Note also that the location at 49 Cape?

They are using television after all to push their stuff — a device which if used properly will make you fat, stupid and incapable of concentrating on anything except your next purchase.

Oh Brickley. You are *so* That Guy.

But I think you have to be careful comparing 'admin' costs. If the charity provides a service then admin costs will be high. An example is a community law centre (disclosure: I used to?

Re Fire Service. I meant that a similar service should/could be set up for Helicopter Rescues rather than under the umbrella of the NZFS. Acronym selection NFG.

However, I now find myself with the ideal opportunity to respond to a group that will listen to facts about KidsCan Charitable Trust, since I am the chairman of that charity.

I?

they're playing on people's instincts not to snarl "get the fuck out of my face" and barging on.

I work in Auckland's CBD, and I am afraid I have been guilty of the above a few times. Usually the days I've been hounded by some wonk with a clipboard four?

Ask away, because I have a lot to do tomorrow, then I'm out of town — so I'd like to get it happening asap.

Anzac collections I dont even?

The first thing to mention is that in NZ only greenpeace and amnesty employ their own fundraisers – everyone else (save the children, red cross) is run by companies which normally take the first year or so of donations.

Absolutely not true Jeremy! I worked for the RNZFB and they?

yes I know things have changed but I can't wear one

I once had an argument with a friend about wearing poppies because she was very Right On (TM) and believed they were all about 'glorifying war'.

When I buy a poppy I think about death, waste, mud, tragedy, stupidity?

Of course as Dannielle says poppies don't glorify war but the horror of it

For me it's all just a?

Here's some questions I have:

Who initiated this year's Telethon?* KidsCan or TV3?

"87% of costs for running Telethon were covered thru corporate sponsorship cash & in-kind. A small amount of $ will be used 4 running costs." – @TelethonNZ

**How much of the $1944225 will go to KidsCan?**?

Mahal – I encountered that problem (a rude ex-serviceperson) in CHCH last year – and yes, I already had my poppy on too: they couldnt blame yooof (I'.m deservedly greyhaired) but maybe they didnt like my response to their 'for god, queen, and country' spiel-

I think one of the?

The question to ask a charity is what is their fundraising ratio? (especially long established charities -it's harder for new charities.)

Few questions, any level of detail appreciated if possible:

1) How much of the (let's agree, high) overhead described above?

What was the cost to build the Big Night In website

Less than the Mission On site. :)

I take it cre8d wasn't approached, then, Rachel?

I think one of the major problems with this sort of charity collection is that people (especially people my age or younger) genuinely *don't* have cash on them very often these days. I never, ever do

I never carry cash on me either, and I'm not 'younger'. Eftpos, bus ticket,?

Wishlist...

Ridgid Pipe Thread Cutting Set
4 x tubes Hylomar universal blue gasket jointing compound (not silicone)
Centre Lathe Cutting Tools 1/2 or 3/4 Shank:
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-L.H. Approach Tool
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-Round Nose Roughing Tool
-Round?

Or when the supermarket checkout person asks if you'd like to donate a dollar for whatever good cause it is. Easy.

Wearing my retail worker hat: these schemes are great if and only if they're run for limited periods. I can safely assert that by the third week of "would?

Thank you for the opportunity to ask questions.

I would like to know:

1 – How much does each raincoat cost to buy from Adidas?

2 – Is a reduction given in the price for the raincoats and is this counted as a donation from Adidas?

3 -?

Thanks for doing this.

I would like to know :

1 – Would it be possible to see the key personnel annual wages?

2 – Does Adidas pay the charity any money to have thousands of walking billboards at schools throughout NZ?

3 – To maintain the huge?

How much did Platinum, Gold, and Silver sponsorship cost the sponsors, and what did those in each category receive in return for said sponsorship?

Thanks for your time.

Has anybody identified any need for the raincoats and shoes that KidsCan provides? It looks to me like another opportunity for Adidas (which supplies the branded coats) to obtain yet more free publicity.

Yes, and the No.1 Shoe Warehouse seems to supply the shoes, for its own promotional return. It?

If I'm reading it correctly, 25% went to the specific KidsCan programmes in 2006, 24% in 2007, and 19% in 2008?

They try everything, yesterday it was stepping in front of me?

The larger revenue number (the $1.95m) comes from a different statement: the one for the KidsCan Charitable Trust Group, which consolidates KidsCan's various activities, including the Big Night In.

Interestingly, in Ireland the Air Corps does air ambulance work, as well as SAR and police support.

Now that would be a useful thing to do with our own air force and their shiny new helicopters.

I don't know if this works in the long run as people are surely jaded?

Well, it certainly seems rather rather *cough* counter-productive to be setting up a mental connection between your organisation and intense irritation. Along as the same lines as my somewhat irrationally strong dislike of Mormons and?

There are some ex Scientology people who protest at an intersection down the road – they cover their faces with masks – all a bit weird, makes me think of the Aum Shinrinkyo types you'd?

Please don't feel under assault with these questions. Clear answers will aid your cause. Mine are:

What others, aside from celebrities who have public relations to organise them, do you have visiting schools?

Which is the more costly exercise for KidsCan?:
Organising the provision of sponsors' products to children?

Yes, but do they need this clothing? Would they be otherwise coatless and discalced? Does the charity identify need or is it just handing out branded goods?

I've always assumed there's a need because the teachers/parents seem so thrilled to have the goods.

But it's a good question – is?

as others have said, thanks for giving us the opportunity to ask you questions directly.

I'm interested in what the long term aims are for KidsCan are. What, if any, strategies, do you have in place for moving from a position where you are simply providing a very?

There are some ex Scientology people who protest at an intersection down the road – they cover their faces with masks – all a bit weird, makes me think of the Aum Shinrinkyo types you'd see scuttling around in Tokyo. Apparently they are scared of being recognised.

Sad and fucked?

There is definitely diverse street life here – not sure why, lots of people yelling at themselves, lots of panhandling, plenty of eccentrics and old hippies?

In his Public Address blog yesterday, media commentator Russell Brown questioned why $1.5 million of the $1.95m raised by KidsCan organisations in the year to December 2008 went in operating costs, leaving 19 cents in the dollar?

Gosh Russell, you sound so reasonable. Why can't you be black or white like everyone else!

Heh. It's odd having to do something like that when it's just something I've written in my blog, rather a fully-fledged story (and when I have other people waiting on my paying work!).

But?

They try everything, yesterday it was stepping in front of me and then trying to shake my hand with a big grin. Mostly it is asking you a question that if you say no to you feel bad:

They where doing that in sydney when I was last there. But?

don't let me put you off :)

Don't worry — the city fathers don't need to put out a hit on you quite yet. Despite incubating the virus that is Starbucks, Seattle is the home of one of my favourite indie comix publishers (Fantagraphics) and they have a store, a?

I think its really commendable that you've agreed to do what you're donig and I look forward to reading your post.

My question — and I apologise if someone has already asked this — is what arrangement exists between the charity, Adidas and the schools, if any? Is there?

Oh Brickley. You are *so* That Guy.

Oh, Danielle, if only you really meant that.

If this was a business and not a charity pulling heart strings, I'd have no problem with a 20% profit.
Since its not your comparison seems somewhat pointless.

Fact is Kyle that these companies that "Maximise" your charities income are business'. They use every trick in the book to guilt you?

On one hand I think the proof of need is a much more important question than the amount that is being spent on admin.

I am also conscious though that there are organisations out there?

I prefer "NGOs" or "non-profit organisations" or suchlike that have a broader feel to them, and less of the?

Does the charity identify need or is it just handing out branded goods?

For those asking this question in this thread, I share your concern. I can't help but wonder who is going to benefit more out of this telethon: Adidas & KidsCan, or the kids?

What's leftover from the exorbitant?

I prefer "NGOs" or "non-profit organisations" or suchlike that have a broader feel to them, and less of the begging, forelock tugging, volunteerism about them.

I'm waiting for the day world leaders decide to disarm completely and turn all their armies into peace corps which are sent around the world?

Mostly it is asking you a question that if you say no to you feel bad:

"Do you care about global warming?"

A dude tried that with me on Courtenay Place.

Dude: "Do you care about children?"
Robyn: "No."

"Do you care about children?"

Whose?

I like that "cake stall to buy bombers" concept myself..

Phew, for a minute there I wondered if i was the only one who remembered that line.

But it's been done.

Dude: "Do you care about children?"
Robyn: "No."

I'm sending your details to a market research company.

In the present climate hopefully such corporate BS won't be allowed to pass unchallenged.

Funniest thing I've read today.

www.bigbuddy.org.nz

www.thepond.co.nz

Perhaps the government could arrange for some support for the already existing, completely free, charitable resource website which does that, DonateNZ, link here, which allows people to find, support and donate to community organisations.

Anyway to attract donations we need to get our name, message and story out there and?

Disclaimer: Richard Aston is my CEO so we're a tag team of link failures.

However the topic and conversation is hugely relevant for us and we thought it wouldn't hurt to add?

Won't somebody please think of the links...

http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/national/ntn/2009/08/12/kidscan_wheres_the_money_going

So please, carry on talking.

However the topic and conversation is hugely relevant for us and we thought it wouldn't hurt to add our view on things (and maybe smoke out a millionaire or two).

Go for it Michael. Up front seems to work over here.I think one message is?

Then go here Nine to Noon and do the following (from the RNZ website):

How do I set up?

And for the Mac-heads (for whom this link doesn't work) – you will need to download the VLC Media Player which is a jolly good bit of software for the Mac.

Actually, the Flip4Mac components for QuickTime are a better solution. WMA streams will just play as a QuickTime movie?

www.angoa.org.nz

A recent report on the govt-community sector relationship by ANGOA (the Association of Non-Governmental Organisations of Aotearoa) is called Good Intentions, and is available on their site

www.ocvs.govt.nz (Office of the Community and?

Volunteer charities must rank right up there with the immigration service as ethical jungle and emotional quagmire.

After maybe 40 or 50 years of involvement in community issues as a reporter, community board member, political party worker,?

Can you talk me through the relatoinship between Kids Can Trust and Invitation Only Events limited and how this relationship works ?

Thanks

Do you have any plans to work with corporate partners that work from a more sustainable basis, for example, providing fresh food rather than processed food, shoes that are manufactured in NZ etc. etc.?

I have to agree. I know some food is better than no food but some of?

But the police school safety advisors are telling us not to to put the children in dark coloured raincoats,?

as Sacha did on another discussion

Bugger – wrong thread, hurrying. Duplicated here:

Russell on RNZ this morning –
streaming (9 mins) or MP3 (7.5 MB).

A touch of sourgrapes from TV One not getting the Telethon?

"Whether the charity relates to our competitors, or ourselves, makes no difference;"

Well – best laid plans and all that!

But, unfortunately, as happened to Russell, the way in which this story was broken, with traditional media picking it up from PA before KidsCan even had a chance to comment properly, has meant that all my time has been taken?

But the police school safety advisors are telling us not to to put the children in dark coloured raincoats, as drivers (especially when raining) find it harder to see little people in dark colours

True.

I don't think the kids would really care what colour they were... although older boys?

"still my intention to try to answer on PA the main questions that have been raised here in due course."

That does sound a little less than committed to a prompt and comprehensive response you promised yesterday.

KidsCan does good stuff, the dial simply needs to be turned?

That does sound a little less than committed to a prompt and comprehensive response you promised yesterday.

lol

all my time has been taken up today and I have not had a chance to come back here

That was my suspicion as soon as I saw CloseUp had flogged the story – (streaming, 11 mins).

Rick, the way you described the in-kind contributions the last of the several?

It seemed to me that they were taking criedit for raising the issues, in a rather self-satisfied fashion.

That fashion may just be part of the show and of TVNZ in general. Smug for no good reason is a phrase that easily unites Paul Henry and Wendy Petrie, for instance.?

Smug for no good reason

Oooooooh...it does get in.

But this, from Stuff ...

KidsCan StandTall Charitable Trust chairman Rick Shera said in a statement that some of the recent commentary relates to historic KidsCan accounts that were filled with the Charities Commission as is required.

While at first sight the conclusions that some?

Money ain't nothing in particular.

Can a person who gives money to KidsCan expect it to go further than it would if the person just spent that money buying some raincoats and gave them to the local decile 1 school for distribution?

(disclaimer: I don't currently live in NZ and I?

Sound familiar anyone?

There is no mention of that income in the financial report of the DHFCT for the same year. Where'd it go?

Perhaps an officer of one or both of?

... really doesn't work for me.

Me neither.

"The single most important factor – that a simplistic focus on financial accounts misses – is that KidsCan receives massive in-kind and non-cash support which it cannot account for under current charities and accounting standards law in New Zealand," Mr Shera said.

?

]]> Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:48:13 +1200 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-where-your-money-goes/?p=125954#post125954 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-where-your-money-goes/?p=125954#post125954

And yes, it might well be cheaper for me to buy the raincoats myself and pop down to the school and hand them out, but seriously, how many people are going to do that? Surely one organisation to centralise it is better.

I absolutely disagree. Compare it to a food?

]]> Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:13:43 +1200 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-where-your-money-goes/?p=125955#post125955 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-where-your-money-goes/?p=125955#post125955 I think a simple blunt Lonergan reply is all that is required here.

The reason there is so much heat to this discussion is obvious. People want to know what percentage of monies raised the organisers are paying themselves. It's as simple as that. Everything else stems from this one?

]]> Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:19:03 +1200 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-where-your-money-goes/?p=125956#post125956 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-where-your-money-goes/?p=125956#post125956

When you're tugging on peoples emotions and wallets, I tend to think complete clarity and full transparency is rather important.

EXACTLY

Julie's refusal to tell Laws their wages ignited all this. And saying "none of your business" when you're a charity maybe wasn't the smartest move.

Certainly not — though I would like someone to ask the triple-dipping Mayor of Wanganui how much Radio Live and the SST pay to distract?

Russell on RNZ this morning –
streaming (9 mins) or MP3 (7.5 MB).

Where's the ogg link? Richard Hulse would thank you for using it:

I do hope that people use the Ogg files because apart from the freedom aspect, the quality is better than MP3 for the same data?

And, after September 11 2001, the Red Cross was forced to do an about face and promise that all the donations that resulted from the attacks would go victims.

Where's the ogg link?

Tim, good point. I support Open Source alternatives in principle.

Because of the way PAS handles links when composing posts, it takes some effort even to offer more than one link option for RNZ's stories. I think you'll find I am one of the few who?

Moreu cartoonage

Ouch.

I just stood on my corner with my bucket silently

Nice work. I always walk past collectors, and if I don't get accosted, I double back, and donate. Especially as these days it seems that the stickers really say 'Do not harass this person, we've already got their money'.

This is the default page for doughowlett.com

So my question for Mr Shera -?

Either the expense is ... or my computer ain't working properly...

Hang on a mo'. I think that's a bit presumptuous, unless of course you have authority? Charities are often business' acting on behalf of a charity. That is not to say the organisation is the needy lot. Whilst one?

I didn't mean to imply any fraud in earlier post.

The Charities register listing for the DHFC charity has the website as doughowlett.com. This along with doughowlett.co.nz do exist but just have a text message displayed. This means that someone has to be paying the hosting charges even though?

The only issue is it's not always clear-cut in terms of disbursements to the?

I've been in contact with Rick, and he won't be able to file his post responding to your questions until next week.

I'm okay with this: he's a volunteer independent chairman and he's been fronting the issue all over the place. He has urgent legal work to do.?