Indiana Jonesing

315 Responses

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  • Deborah,

    Well, Deborah, I don't mean to threadjack but do you refer to gays and lesbians as 'queers'?

    No, I don't. I refer to gays and lesbians as gays and lesbians.

    Manawatu City • Since Nov 2006 • 1315 posts Report Reply

  • Neil Morrison,

    if you want intelligent comment rather than the usual bitching about Hillary try
    TalkLeft.

    It was only pointed out to me a few days ago that one of the main commmentators there is pro-Obama.

    "Hillary" (first name)?

    I think to avoid confusion with Bill.

    Since Nov 2006 • 932 posts Report Reply

  • Tim Michie,

    Now we know why they called North Carolina from exits alone: Obama 66%, Clinton 32%...

    38% counted in Indiana: Obama's gained 1% to 44%.

    Media have often referred to women in public life by their first name, or softened it (Maggie Thatcher) for decades. Perhaps some Edwardian hangover of how to treat a lady kindly.

    Auckward • Since Nov 2006 • 563 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    I really hate the use of "witch" as term of abuse. It derives from wicca which means "wise". I have known practicing wiccans and they are all very nice people, and nothing like the vile nature supposed by your use of "witch".

    I'll grit my teeth and hand-raise to this. I'm a practicing Wiccan.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4366 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    CNN exit polls have half of Clinton voters in Indiana and more than half in NC saying they won't vote for Obama if he's the candidate in November.

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but don't both Indiana and North Caroline have open/semi-open primaries? If a good chunk of these people are Ann-droids and Dittoheads trying to 'spoil' Obama's chances, they were never going to vote for either Obama or Clinton in November anyway. Hell, it's an open question whether the rabid-right's going to turn out for McCain no matter how hard he panders.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11995 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    I hate to interupt all the bitching, whining, groveling and general special pleading but Andrew Sullivan has an interesting post from one of his readers explaining how the NC delegates break down:

    As you watch results come in, important to know this:

    Indiana has 72 delegates...47 will be decided by results in congressional districts. There are 9 congressional districts.

    In congressional districts 1, 2, 7, 8 and 9 there are 6 delegates each. These delegates will be split 3-3 -- you need to win 58 percent or higher in order to get a 4-2 split. So that means all Obama has to do is hold Hillary to 58 percent or lower in each district and they split. Which means he stays ahead.

    (Cong district 1 is Lake County up near Chicago, 2 is the South Bend area, 7 is Indianapolis, 8 is the SW quandrant and 9 is the SE quandrant.)

    Districts 3 (North Central Indiana), 4 (West Central) -- both strong Hillary areas -- and 5 (Eastern and Northern suburbs of Indianapolis (a tossup) have four delegates each. These delegates are also split 2-2. In these districts, in order to get a 3-1 split, the winner has to get 65% or higher! So Obama's task is even easier/Hillary's task is even more difficult there.

    District 6 (Eastern edge of state...Muncie, Anderson, Richmond, also suburbs of Fort Wayne and Cincinatti) has 5 delegates. Winner there gets 3 out of 5. That is a district to watch tonight because it can be a tie-breaker.

    The other 254 delegates are mayors and other elected party officials who go the way of their districts, and of course the superdelegates.

    So far Clinton and Obama have pretty much split them -- but the good news for Obama is, of the three remaining undecided superdelegates, rumor has it all three are eager to go with Obama if given even the slightest excuse.

    Everybody got that?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 901 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Update from TPM:

    First-time voters helped fuel Obama's victory: According to exits, the 18 percent in the state who said it was their first time voting in a primary favored Obama overwhelmingly, 68%-26%.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18888 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    What is the deal with referring to "Obama" (surname) but "Hillary" (first name)?

    On that one, we're following their lead.

    Clinton's logo included the words "Hillary for President", and Barack's using "Obama '08".

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3004 posts Report Reply

  • LegBreak,

    I can’t understand why she’s called Hillary either, and I agree there’s an element of sexism in that too.

    I used to think it was to avoid confusion with a certain ex-president but Bush gets called Bush.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1162 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Remember the episode of the West Wing that deals with whether or not the Hispanic Dem candidate should do the huntin' shootin' photo op? It just seems to be required in US politics. Pandering is expected, genuineness is not.

    And wasn't the whole point of The West Wing that when politicians don't treat citizens with cynical contempt, then the citizenry might just repay the courtesy. Do we just shrug our shoulders and say people like Matt Santos and Arnold Vinnick really are too good to ever be true? Perhaps they are, but if we're never going to demand any better than we shouldn't be too outraged when that's exactly what we get.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11995 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Clinton's logo included the words "Hillary for President", and Barack's using "Obama '08".

    I can’t understand why she’s called Hillary either, and I agree there’s an element of sexism in that too.

    I used to think it was to avoid confusion with a certain ex-president but Bush gets called Bush.

    I think it's a reflection of the Clinton campaign deciding she needed to come across as softer, and the Obama campaign deciding he needed to come across as more professional and authoritative.

    And wasn't that where 'Dubya' came from: to distinguish Bush jnr from Bush snr? Given they were both called George?

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4366 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah,

    I think Graeme's right on the name issue - we're calling the candidates what they call themselves. Always the polite thing to do....

    I suspect that Hillary chose to use her last name to avoid confusion with [Bill] Clinton, but also to defuse the images of a powerful woman. A lot of her photography puts her on the same level as people, c/f standing higher than them and leading them, which is the more usual shot for male politicians. It's a 'come with me' approach rather than an 'I will lead you' approach. Using her given name rather than her family name reinforces that.

    And presumably "Obama" is serving the same sort of purpose, emphasising his fitness to lead as a powerful man. Also, don't forget that a standard way of belittling black men is to refer to them as 'boys' and to use their given name. He's quite sensible to use a form of his name that emphasises equality.

    Also, "Obama 08" (say it out loud) is quite catchy, like "Kevin 07".

    Manawatu City • Since Nov 2006 • 1315 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Do we just shrug our shoulders and say people like Matt Santos and Arnold Vinnick really are too good to ever be true? Perhaps they are, but if we're never going to demand any better than we shouldn't be too outraged when that's exactly what we get.

    Well, the point was that it was a trope of long-enough standing to be an issue then, not something that's just emerged this year. And I'd like to think we don't, but we're starting to see it here, aren't we? Leaders on both sides pretending to be 'ordinary'? Personally I'm with John Stewart, I want leaders who are BETTER than me, not just like me, but it seems an awful lot of people WANT to see candidates on the back of trucks.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4366 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I'm tired of the pandering from both sides - Hilary knocking back the shots was right down there with Obama going bowling.

    I'm not sure they're the same thing at all. They all do photo-ops, but Clinton has had surrogates actively peddling the whisky-drinkin' meme as recently as this week.

    It's part of a new faux personality that included her parading as some sort of gun-rights champion, which was absurd given her legislative record, and most recently the utterly idiotic gas-tax posturing.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18888 posts Report Reply

  • Neil Morrison,

    I'm not sure they're the same thing at all.

    It is the same thing. For anyting stupid you can bring up about the Clinton campaign I can match it with something from Obama's.

    Since Nov 2006 • 932 posts Report Reply

  • David Cormack,

    I have to say, the media has been somewhat biased at even a primal level - illustrations. Hillary's shots as 'news' have mainly been her looking frantic and panicky while Barack's shots have usually been so composed.

    Of course there's the possibility that Hillary is frantic and panicky but I suspect this isn't the case.

    Suburbia, Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 216 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    And wasn't that where 'Dubya' came from: to distinguish Bush jnr from Bush snr? Given they were both called George?

    I couldn't understand why, on the fairly rare occasions they were mentioned in such close proximity there was risk of confusion they couldn't have been referred to as 'former President George H[erbert] Bush.', who begat George W.[alker]'. Then again, folksy diminutives are nothing new in American politics -- Theodore Roosevelt hated being called 'Teddy' (and apparently had a rather formidable temper and the vocabulary to go with it), but couldn't do much about it.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11995 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    I'm not sure they're the same thing at all. They all do photo-ops, but Clinton has had surrogates actively peddling the whisky-drinkin' meme as recently as this week.

    It's part of a new faux personality that included her parading as some sort of gun-rights champion, which was absurd given her legislative record, and most recently the utterly idiotic gas-tax posturing.

    I'd divide between the whiskey-drinking and bowling ('this is the person I am, these are the things I do regularly, just like you'), and the guns and tax thing ('this is what I believe in, what I stand for, how I govern'). To throw away her record, which surely was her main advantage, just so she can claim to be just as dumb as everyone else? Didn't exactly strike me as smrt.

    I have to say I don't much give a shrivelled rat's testicle which one of them gets the nomination. But it sure has shoved McCain out of the spotlight.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4366 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    It is the same thing. For anyting stupid you can bring up about the Clinton campaign I can match it with something from Obama's.

    Stupider than the gas-tax gambit? Have a go then ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18888 posts Report Reply

  • Neil Morrison,

    Have a go then ...

    using insurance industry and Republican tactics to attack her health reform policies.

    And yes the tax holiday is not a great idea - but this is poltics, it's what Clark is doing wiht fuel prices here.

    Since Nov 2006 • 932 posts Report Reply

  • Neil Smart,

    How about Hilary sounding as though she was just a home town girl from the mid west on Morning Report today. I love her new accent

    [url http://www.radionz.co.nz/__data/assets/audio_item/0010/1492957/mnr-20080507-0749-Obama_Edges_a_Lead-wmbr.asx |link text] ]

    Since Nov 2006 • 71 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I have to say I don't much give a shrivelled rat's testicle which one of them gets the nomination. But it sure has shoved McCain out of the spotlight.

    Which I don't think is necessarily a good thing -- he's gotten a near total pass on his own batshit pastor problem (with the important distinction that, unlike Obama and Jeremiah Wright, he's solicited and received endorsements from paranoid bigots). And while McCain gets points for admitting that economic policy isn't his strong suit, I'm yet to see any evidence that he's up to speed where it counts. If a gas-tax holiday is what will pass for serious economic policy in a McCain Administration, God help us all -- because nothing and nobody else will. Nor do I think one should trumpet your foreign policy and military expertise when you're fuzzy on the far from trivial distinction between Shiite and Sunni Muslims.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11995 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    How about Hilary sounding as though she was just a home town girl from the mid west on Morning Report today. I love her new accent

    Yeah, that was a very funny clip. I wonder who goes around afterwards and picks up all the G's she drops ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18888 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    using insurance industry and Republican tactics to attack her health reform policies.

    You're accusing Obama of "using Republican tactics"?

    But it's not the same thing. There is a genuine range of opinion on the respective heath plans.

    With the gas-tax thing Hillary has taken up a policy position that even she knows is bullshit. She hasn't been able to find a single economist from anywhere on the political spectrum -- or even anyone in her own party who isn't on her campaign -- so she goes to war on economists.

    And yes the tax holiday is not a great idea - but this is poltics, it's what Clark is doing wiht fuel prices here.

    It isn't.. I have some misgivings about Labour's action there, but they're delaying the introduction of a surtax -- that's quite different to presenting a six-month "holiday" on fuel taxes as something that will benefit ordinary people, rather than, as would inevitably be the case, actually increase prices at the pump once the "holiday" is over.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18888 posts Report Reply

  • Neil Morrison,

    You're accusing Obama of "using Republican tactics"?

    yes.

    But it's not the same thing.

    it's aways different when it's Obama.

    but they're delaying the introduction of a surtax

    the objective is the same - to keep gas prices down for political reasons.

    Since Nov 2006 • 932 posts Report Reply

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