Island Life by David Slack

Read Post

Island Life: Tune in, turn on, score some Vogels.

146 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 Newer→ Last

  • Hilary Stace,

    Put Marmite on the bread and get a double dose.
    So does Marmite (or vegemite) cause prostate cancer too?

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 2024 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    All good, then, just so long as you eat eleven - count them, eleven slices - of bread each day. As we all do.

    As people have pointed out, folate acid doesn't just come from bread. And I presume even if you don't eat the recommended amount, you still get some benefit.

    That press release from the Coalition of Parents of Children with Spina Bifida seems to me tells a side to the story that should be getting a lot more coverage than some head baker.

    I'd like to see a baker on the news saying "yes, I'd love to help find a way that I can improve the health of future children and prevent families from having to go through this." There must be some who feel that way about it surely?

    Instead I got "some loaves will have to much, some loaves will have too little". Which seemed to me to be irrelevant given that people don't eat the same amount of bread each day anyway.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6155 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed,

    I'm curious how many people up and arms about this happily buy vitamin-fortified cereals? And wasn't "and folic acid for reproduction" a selling point once upon a time?

    That was the ad campaign for Complan maybe 15-20 years ago.

    Given that a lot of "nanny-state" measures like eco-bulbs had connections with global treaties such as NZFSA & Kyoto, I'm not the only one to foresee a brewing shitfight between "free-choice" nationalism and "nanny-state" internationalism. Especially if NZ finds itself at the receiving end of America's Waxman-Markey Act.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4129 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    Even if they have other sources, it sounds to me as though it's still likely that the women for whom it's intended will get insufficient by this means.

    So your logic is because we can't put as much in as we should we should put none in?

    Or

    Because we can't eliminate spina bifida babies and prevent abortions of spina bifida babies - let's instead have more.

    Stupid analogy time - because some people don't wear seat belts we should repeal the seat belt law??

    Thank you for putting the science links in but I fear stupidity has already won this fight.

    Yes you can get B9 from veges but it is somewhat dependent on the soils the plants are grown in. Unfortunately NZ soils aren't great for promoting B9 accumulation.

    It's worth noting Canada and the US fortify flour - which means all flour products get B9 supplementation. A lot of the flour in NZ is made elsewhere which makes B9 supplementation at this point more difficult.

    Note this is a public health issue and an economic issue. Children with neural defects cost a fortune to help live reasonable lives. It is cheaper by far to prevent them developing the disease than to treat it.

    Oh and for the silly woman on breakfast TV complaining about eating "chemicals" - you are made of chemicals and everything you eat is chemical you ignorant .... angry moi?

    Final cynical point - I wonder how many lunches My Key has had with the manufacturers of B9 pills that are at the moment sold to all pregnant and planning women. A public health initiative like this would cut into their profits something awful.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3253 posts Report Reply

  • David Slack,

    So your logic is because we can't put as much in as we should we should put none in?

    No. My logic is: does this work? If not, what might?

    Devonport • Since Nov 2006 • 599 posts Report Reply

  • andrew gunn,

    Thanks B Jones for your take on the 'freedom of choice' argument. That seems eminently reasonable to me.

    Anyone out there want to have a crack at putting the opposing view? I really, really don't want to go to looking for it on kiwiblog...

    Christchurch • Since Apr 2009 • 41 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    Ok.

    So why do you say this doesn't work? Canada and the US seem to have implemented (albeit at the flour level) a successful food supplement program that people seem to think has worked.

    I'm not sure I understand why supplementing a common food product with a vitamin that has been shown to be harmless, but for a group of people is beneficial, is a bad thing at all.

    Could we do better - um maybe sure. Supplementing RTDs and cola might work but I'm not sure the vitamin is stable in such solutions.

    I still think arguing against this because it possibly isn't the complete solution is a weird argument.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3253 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Health Nazis and Vitamin Benign
    The human body was not meant to eat bread or cereals in general. We were eating lots of fat and fruit and veggies before agriculture came along and I was quite healthy back then.
    The whole food pyramid is a crock and the emphasis on cholesterol is just a way to sell more statins.
    And don't get me started on secondhand smoke, grrr.
    The United States Department of Agriculture wants you to eat more bread and cakes. Follow the money. Its all a load of Folics.

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4626 posts Report Reply

  • Glenn Pearce,

    Then again there's already iodine in salt, as David pointed out

    The curious thing is, down the line, an artisan baker somewhere will advertise their bread as "no folic acid added" (analogy here - unpasteurised cheeses.)

    Not quite the same though is it, you can still buy non-iodised salt if you choose, as I understand it non-Folic'd bread won't be allowed.

    Or is that wrong ?

    Auckland • Since Feb 2007 • 345 posts Report Reply

  • David Slack,

    So why do you say this doesn't work? Canada and the US seem to have implemented (albeit at the flour level) a successful food supplement program that people seem to think has worked.

    I'm not asserting that it doesn't work, I'm asking if it does or not, because it seems to be a matter of contention.

    Actually, when I look back at my original post, I can see that I'm being emphatic there. That's clearly wrong. But I still ask the question I've been posing here: does it actually achieve its intended effect?

    Devonport • Since Nov 2006 • 599 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Its all a load of Folics

    Nice.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16414 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    Especially if NZ finds itself at the receiving end of America's Waxman-Markey Act.

    Given that National has gone from climate change denial to denying it can do anything about climate change, it is a matter of "when" not "if".

    As for Katherine Rich, she just goes to show every Tory has a price.

    I wonder how many lunches My Key has had with the manufacturers of B9 pills that are at the moment sold to all pregnant and planning women...

    That'll explain Sue Kedgley then, she is pretty much the shadow spokesperson for crackpot medicine and homeopathic remedies.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1764 posts Report Reply

  • Glenn Pearce,

    I hope the cricketers amongst you all had your feet off the floor when I made that last post.

    Auckland • Since Feb 2007 • 345 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Curtis,

    Its not 4 its more like 40. Those others are aborted, when its detected. For some no big deal , for others to have an abortion may be a terrible experience

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 208 posts Report Reply

  • B Jones,

    I wonder how many lunches My Key has had with the manufacturers of B9 pills that are at the moment sold to all pregnant and planning women. A public health initiative like this would cut into their profits something awful.

    Not necessarily, you'd still need to supplement if you were planning a baby to get to the higher levels they recommend. It's just that fortifying bread would mean that there's a higher baseline population consumption, and therefore a better safety net, for people who were unaware they could benefit from this.

    It interests me that in a world where you could probably get a majority of people to support a total ban on alcohol consumption among pregnant women, the instant that measures to improve babies' health could fall on the shoulders of everyone else, there's an uproar. Sure, this is a sophisticated version of the Helen Lovejoy doctrine, but it's one in which there is evidence of preventable physical harm, rather than an imagined moral one.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 790 posts Report Reply

  • Glenn Pearce,

    It interests me that in a world where you could probably get a majority of people to support a total ban on alcohol consumption among pregnant women, the instant that measures to improve babies' health could fall on the shoulders of everyone else, there's an uproar

    If the analogy was the same you'd have to ban all alcohol consumption by everyone to stop pregnant women drinking.

    Auckland • Since Feb 2007 • 345 posts Report Reply

  • B Jones,

    It's not a precise analogy, Glenn, I won't insist on it. But there is a difference between how people treat freedom of choice for the general population and those responsible for the care of children. I know I do - I get annoyed enough with people exercising their freedom to made perverse choices in direct contradiction of medical evidence, but I get shoutingly angry when they do so on behalf of their kids.

    Some being over at Kiwiblog that seems to have acquired literacy without humanity actually suggested that those women who didn't know that folate was good for their kids would be bad mothers anyway and didn't deserve the benefits of mandatory fortification. There's a gender element to the debate that's very obvious over there.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 790 posts Report Reply

  • Max Call,

    There's a gender element to the debate that's very obvious over there.

    Not just that debate

    Fruit Bowl of New Zealand… • Since Jun 2007 • 152 posts Report Reply

  • Max Call,

    current poll question at Kiwiblog

    "Do you support the requirement for folic acid to be added to bread to reduce the risk of birth defects?"

    with a choice of voting 'yes' or 'no'

    last look saw 9% saying yes.

    Fruit Bowl of New Zealand… • Since Jun 2007 • 152 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    I don't understand what the baker's problem is - is it expensive? make the bread taste funny? not rise? turn green?

    I understand they'll have to change the labeling, is that all this is about (from their end) - just think that can include "with added vitamins"

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2069 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Its all a load of Folics

    Nanny state telling teachers how to teach reading now?

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 2024 posts Report Reply

  • Roger Lacey,

    Sorry, I can't tell if John Key being wishy today or is it washy?
    His party signed up to the policy while in opposition. Didn't they realise that by signing up if they came to power they would have to implement it?
    Perhaps they were too used to other people having to take the consequences for decisions, it sure looks like it caught them by surprise.

    Whatakataka Bay Surf Club… • Since Apr 2008 • 113 posts Report Reply

  • Mark Easterbrook,

    Congrats to the PR bod who came up with "eleven slices", now a compulsory part of the catechism, like plasma TVs in prison and hip-hop tours. Not ten. Not twelve. Too even, too round. Eleven it is, and ever shall be

    OT but related to this earlier comment...why did nobody in the media/opposition puff and pout about John Key's Pacific tour entourage, which included a hip-hop dance crew?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 244 posts Report Reply

  • Roger Lacey,

    current poll question at Kiwiblog
    "Do you support the requirement for folic acid to be added to bread to reduce the risk of birth defects?"
    with a choice of voting 'yes' or 'no'
    last look saw 9% saying yes.

    I can't help thinking that those Kiwiblog readers may be a bit "in-bread" themselves.

    Whatakataka Bay Surf Club… • Since Apr 2008 • 113 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    If the analogy was the same you'd have to ban all alcohol consumption by everyone to stop pregnant women drinking.

    I think the analogy has a mid-point. When my partner was pregnant I stopped drinking (and we stopped doing some drinking type activities) in part to support her and make that easier for her.

    I don't mind having B9 in my bread if it's good for future kids, families, and doesn't cause me any harm.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6155 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

Please sign in using your Public Address credentials…

Login

You may also create an account or retrieve your password.