Legal Beagle by Graeme Edgeler

How many mid-term-elevations of list MPs have occurred? It can't be many, but I'm curious how many people have been paid illegally.

If you haven't yet sent it in, the last paragraph of "Deductions from Suspended Members", second line (as formatted here) says "at lease" when you mean "at least".

It would be nice if salaries were indexed to the median income, but as a feedback measure it loses its power if it doesn't take effect until the following term. I like the idea of Key et al having their pay cut as a consequence of their presidency over a decline in the median income.

How many mid-term-elevations of list MPs have occurred? It can’t be many, but I’m curious how many people have been paid illegally.

I count 22 [via Wikipedia].

I like the three year salary setting proposal, but I think it ought to be inflation adjusted, or adjusted by a percentage increase that is no more that the increase in the CPI over the previous year. Rounded down to the nearest 0.5%, perhaps.

percentage increase that is no more that the increase in the CPI over the previous year

The mean for the parliamentary term during which it is set would be better, since that gives a longer-term metric. After all, if we'd used 2009 as the benchmark year there would've been some pretty nasty CPI figures whereas if it'd been for 2007-2009 it would've been more moderate. If the pay is being set for a term, it's only fair that CPI movements be averaged across a term.

I’d be interested to know how well an “inflation adjusted” figure would correspond to what we actually expect politicians to be paid over the long term; ie. if salaries had been inflation adjusted from some point in the past, would they have ended up where they are now? The appropriate pay for an MP is a very subjective judgement, and it would be good to know how well a formulaic approach would capture that.

A simple experiment* would be to chart actual MP salaries against an inflation-adjusted value starting as far back as we have good data for. You’d have to assume that on the whole, like on a scale of decades, MP salaries do track public opinion; but it would be interesting (for certain values of interesting).

*Not volunteering (:

I’d be interested to know how well an “inflation adjusted” figure would correspond to what we actually expect politicians to be paid over the long term; ie. if salaries had been inflation adjusted from some point in the past, would they have ended up where they are now?

In 2012 CPI-adjusted dollars, I have quickly been able to determine the follow data points:

1892: $44,700 (first salary)
1944: $39,600
1951: $51,700
1961: $61,500
1964: $81,300
1978: $105,800 (the first calculated under the current scheme)
2012: $141,800

A number I quickly calculated from data I/S provided in a post suggested a mid-80s salary at ~$99k.

These are all basic salary component only, ignoring allowances, which are effectively salary, and other support.

edit: ref: http://www.oag.govt.nz/2001/salaries/appendix1.htm and http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/0135595.html

Next stop, comparisons to the median wage where data is available. Although I'm unimpressed by how much MPs' salaries have grown even within my adult lifetime, I'm even less impressed by how divorced they are from the incomes of ordinary people.

Next stop, comparisons to the median wage where data is available.

The Reserve Bank calculator to which I linked includes an option where you can measure wage increases instead of CPI increases. The $18,000 from 1978 becomes $122,500 in 2012 wages.

The $18,000 from 1978 becomes $122,500 in 2012 wages.

If we go use 1978 Q1 and compare with 2012 Q1 it comes out at $131,500

If we go use 1978 Q1 and compare with 2012 Q1 it comes out at $131,500

I used Q3 in each my calculations: didn't want to overstate result, and knew that now, at least, pay upgrades for MPs take effect in the second half of the year.

Inflation was kinda high in the 70s, huh?

Typo, first para: "I think the Committee for the opportunity..." - should be thank, presumably.

Typo, first para: “I think the Committee for the opportunity…” – should be thank, presumably.

They’ll figure it out :-)

Given most submissions they get, I don't think they'll mind too much...

I'd suggest that list MPs who enter parliament mid-term as replacements *were* returned at an election - the general election that decided the composition of the Parliament.

The new MP will have been on a party list. That party got enough votes to elect a number of list MPs. When the original incumbent left, they were replaced by the new MP. That's a continuation of the electoral process that started with the election.

Given that parliament's intention was clearly that all MPs should get paid, I'd suggest that notwithstanding sloppy drafting, it's legal to pay list MPs joining at mid-term.

I’d suggest that list MPs who enter parliament mid-term as replacements *were* returned at an election – the general election that decided the composition of the Parliament.

That's one interpretation, but the consequence of it is that such MPs are entitled to back pay to the beginning of the Parliament.

Given that parliament’s intention was clearly that all MPs should get paid, I’d suggest that notwithstanding sloppy drafting, it’s legal to pay list MPs joining at mid-term.

That may have been the point of the Civil List Act in 1979, however, when we adopted the Electoral Act 1993, that section wasn't amended in a way that covered replacement list MPs. It was a clear oversight, but the usual remedy for such oversights is that Parliament fixes the law up; it doesn't pretend it has been!

Inflation was kinda high in the 70s, huh?

for sure.

In 1975 the average weekly wage was $95 per week (equivalent to around $850 per week in 2012). This rose to $157 per week by 1979

Next stop, comparisons to the median wage where data is available.

1978 MP salary $18,000 divided by average hourly wage (1979)$4.52= 3982.3 hrs
1979 MPs= 92 population=3137800 rep 34106
2012 MP salary $141800 divided by average hourly wage(2012)$26.92= 5267.5 hrs
2012 MPs=121 population=4561000 rep 37694

So roughly and all perks aside, an MP's value is now 1285.2 average working hours (32 weeks) more (24%), The average* number of New Zealanders represented by each MP being roughly 10% higher.