Muse by Craig Ranapia

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Muse: The Good Word, Bad Numbers and The Fake-Fact That Won't Die

80 Responses

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  • BenWilson, in reply to chris,

    I share Chris Waugh's concern.

    You're not Chris Waugh? Doh! I have to stop thinking "Chris, in China", now. Not specific enough.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8521 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Lilith __,

    No, I don't think it stifles protest, in some cases it could be argued that the indelible nature of internet protest takes the wind out of the sails or serve as a surrogate for real world action, obviously in other cases it's the driver. The point I was going for is that in contrast to China, the New Zealand politician seems to feel significantly less threatened.

    中国 • Since Jan 2010 • 900 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks, in reply to Lilith __,

    perhaps worth giving the correct figure in the body of this post?

    If I understand this matter correctly, there is no 'correct' figure as such, in the sense that there isn't an official statistic for the weekly viewers of TVNZ7. (Which itself seems weird to me.) The Minister and the Herald took the monthly cumulative figure and assumed that you could divide it by four to get an approximate weekly figure. The best that we can say is that the weekly figure is probably a lot closer to 800,000 than it is to 200,000.

    Happy to be corrected on this - I find the whole 'monthly cum' reporting a bit strange.

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1154 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to chris,

    internet protest takes the wind out of the sails or serve as a surrogate for real world action

    it's not separate from the rest of the world, and needs to be planned and integrated accordingly

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16659 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Sacha,

    Certainly Sacha. The issue foremost on my mind writing that was the widespread protest against 92a. The subsequent revision passed under urgency still contained forcible disconnection provisions.

    中国 • Since Jan 2010 • 900 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Just to note that Linda Herrick called while I was out and is keen to make a correction. So that's good.

    I believe I can be forgiven for calling back in the morning, rather than on a lovely Sunday afternoon when there is a vegetable curry to be cooked, and savvy Swedish edits of funk, soul and reggae classics to be played to the neighbours.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18881 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Steve Parks,

    If I understand this matter correctly, there is no ‘correct’ figure as such, in the sense that there isn’t an official statistic for the weekly viewers of TVNZ7

    Yeah, I get that. But a good opportunity to clearly re-state a correct figure, I thought.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3447 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to chris,

    That outcome was a reflection of the broader political calculus, but without the online s92 action it would certainly have been worse. The campaign only worked because it tied in with offline lobbying action.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16659 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Steve Parks,

    he best that we can say is that the weekly figure is probably a lot closer to 800,000 than it is to 200,000.

    Correct.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18881 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Also, Adam Bennett tells me on Twitter that he recently asked Jonathan Coleman about the original error.

    Coleman said he got the figure from officials and wasn't concerned that it was misleading.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18881 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Sacha,

    would certainly have been worse

    Without wanting to delve too deeply into this, that qualifier is quite possibly redundant to anyone whose entire income is reliant on them having a functional internet connection. As I said earlier Sacha;

    The New Zealand population takes this into account and is very forgiving

    中国 • Since Jan 2010 • 900 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to chris,

    why would anybody talk about taking their trousers off on campus, even to deny doing it in a joking fashion?!oddly that sounds very familiar...

    – I find the whole ‘monthly cum’ reporting a bit strange.

    Sounds like an average waking dream.
    :-~
    Any hoo. ont he subject of numbers I here Pres. Putin is readying his winning celebrations for the upcoming elections. We have been assured that the latest voting machinery will be in use. (see below)

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4860 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Attachment

    Vote early, vote often, vote how you are told.

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4860 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to chris,

    that qualifier is quite possibly redundant to anyone whose entire income is reliant on them having a functional internet connection.

    the protest campaign helped disconnection be parked for now as an option. without it, would have been in force already. highly relevant.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16659 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Russell Brown,

    wasn't concerned that it was misleading

    and won't be until someone makes him

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16659 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Sacha,

    the protest campaign helped disconnection be parked for now as an option. without it, would have been in force already. highly relevant.

    The termination clause was not removed and can be enabled by Cabinet at any time without parliamentary vote. The act is up for review this month… Lets not rest on our laurels just yet isn't it?

    中国 • Since Jan 2010 • 900 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Just to note that Linda Herrick called while I was out and is keen to make a correction. So that’s good.

    Bloody oath it is, and I’ve updated the post to say so. Credit where due etc. – but could someone kick Ms. Herrick a rung or four up the greasy pole at the Herald because this needs to become a feature not a bug of the Herald’s editorial OS.

    Coleman said he got the figure from officials and wasn’t concerned that it was misleading.

    Officials are always convenient scapegoats for idiot ministers (considering they're professionally restrained from calling their political masters incompetent liars in public), but even if true you'd think he'd be very concerned.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11989 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed, in reply to chris,

    Lets not rest on our laurels just yet isn’t it?

    Indeed. The TPPA in its current perverted form still poses a threat, especially given the lack of scrutiny - which media advertisers exactly have to gain from it? And here's hoping that Silicon Valley wins the SOPA/PIPA shitfight.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4301 posts Report Reply

  • merc, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Coleman said he got the figure from officials and wasn't concerned that it was misleading.

    Then it was his intention to mislead?

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to merc,

    Then it was his intention to mislead?

    Probably not – but it’s hardly unknown for people to be less inclined to be less inclined to run the bullshit detector over people telling them what they want to hear. Personally, I’d be very unhappy about being fed bum information by staffers who are pretty well-paid for knowing their arses from their elbows. Then again, I'm never going to get a ministerial warrant so what do I know?

    To re-jig what I said up-thread: Ministers are perfectly entitled to advance policy agendas, but they’re not entitled to do so by blithely shoveling bullshit.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11989 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Personally, I’d be very unhappy about being fed bum information by staffers

    though if you were a person with lower ethical standards and the misinformation suited your agenda, not so troubled.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16659 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Okay: just to say that Linda Herrick and Rebecca Barry Hill are very sorry that a supportive story turned out like this and Linda is seeing what she can do about a correction and making sure the bogus figure isn’t used again. It’s not a matter of any kind of vendetta.

    Rebecca got the figure from ... the Herald website, which rather neatly shows how bad information stays alive when it remains in publication.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18881 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    Good news. It's nice to know that if you want the Herald to make a correction, you only have to object, object again, complain, disprove, complain again, disprove again, protest vigorously, have others complain, and, finally, gasp in exasperation.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell,

    I wonder how many of us emailed? Possibly quite a few strongly worded messages in the in-box? And this time, the message reached someone who gave a toss. Lesson: Keep kvetching!

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 1571 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    I wonder how many of us emailed?

    More than 40.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18881 posts Report Reply

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