OnPoint by Keith Ng

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OnPoint: 3 News Exclusive Investigation Newsflash: Government Not Profitable

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  • Graeme Edgeler,

    These people ... may have no taxable income.

    Or taxable income that's below the repayment threshold. Or non-taxable income (e.g. via capital gains). And charging interest could encourage that lot to pay up.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 2969 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    If they've got capital gains income and aren't paying back their student loan, why would charging interest change their position? Until capital gains cease to be tax-free, people who have largely tax-free income will have no encouragement to repay their student loans because they'll not be over the threshold.

    The pit from whence crawl… • Since Mar 2007 • 3731 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    What annoys me about this is that Steven Joyce has decided that all students over 55 are a bad risk so can't borrow anymore - which means lots of people being made redundant or mothers who have finally got some time to themselves to go back to study now can't. No one consulted them.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 1901 posts Report Reply

  • Samthecat,

    Hey, give us right wingers a break.

    We are a so called "right wing" household - 1 ex Labour (long term member, electorate committee and all) waiting until they get their act together. One tribal Nat (except for the year he voted for "the other side" which amusingly was the year he chaired the local National electorate committee and Labour won) and a youthful libertarian (aren't they all ?) who has a mate standing for ACT. We ALL shouted at the screen during that story.

    Personally having had to spend 10 years working my way through a law degree in the 70's I would have loved a student loan. It still makes me snicker when I get the youngsters in my office complaining about their student loans while signing up to buy a used car from a finance house. My standard line is "One of these things is an investment in your future, and it ain't the car". They pay no heed.

    Wellington • Since Feb 2010 • 7 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    Meanwhile, there was an actual news story. The Greens announced a Kiwisaver package with significant implications for savers and savings. But that would have been just a tiny bit complex. Instead, we mostly got Gower trying to create a news story by tripping up Delahunty, who responded in good humour.

    The People's Republic of … • Since Nov 2006 • 2078 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    and little lambs eat ivy towers…
    I suspect something horrible and unspeakable happened to ACT members at university, and they’ve been trying to make it an unpleasant experience for all others whenever possible – adding interest to socially-beneficial loans, abolishing student unions, or at least making them voluntary (though they’ll still want their ACT club to be hosted I’m sure) – maybe they were bullied by some brash dons? or rogered drugless? or had prebbles thrown at them so they had to hide in the toilets….
    whatever they are bitter pillocks to swallow.

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 4204 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    I suspect something horrible and unspeakable happened to ACT members at university . . .

    Somehow I'd assumed the opposite, that their resentment stems from not very much happening. I'd like to think that they started out nice to a fault, much too nice to refuse the cosy hand knits foisted on them by colour-blind and dyslexic relatives.

    That kind of thing can really cruel your social life in your crucial years, plus you're unlikely to be offered interesting drugs.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 3291 posts Report Reply

  • the sprout,

    very well said, nice work.

    mind you, you won’t get far with ideas like that in the msm, what with all the bare-faced logic and informed reasoning.

    nz • Since Nov 2011 • 14 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart, in reply to Samthecat,

    It still makes me snicker when I get the youngsters in my office complaining about their student loans while signing up to buy a used car from a finance house. My standard line is "One of these things is an investment in your future, and it ain't the car". They pay no heed.

    Yeah, how dare people be depressed about their new-car-to-half-a-mortgage-sized loans that loom over them before they can begin to think about saving for things like a newer, more reliable car or a mortgage deposit. Are these people all buying Subarus, or something?

    Sure, some of them will get good jobs quickly and pay it off. And some of them won't. Either way, it's a hell of a thing to have hanging over your future.

    Amherst, MA • Since Nov 2006 • 2087 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    Or perhaps we just apply Occam’s razor and assume Brook Sabin got his B-team journalism “degree’ with a minimum of effort and really is just looking for a nice gig in PR, and wouldn’t know journalism if it bit him on the arse.

    I listened/saw two ancient examples of interviewing on the weekend. One, from the BBC radio documentary “After the Dictators” by Owen Bennett-Jones had a 1960’s BBC journalist crisply trying to interview the Malawi strongman Dr. Hastings Kamuzu Banda and the other was Brian Edwards gently teasing information out of a shy lady from Hastings about a shonky photographer on some creakingly old episode of “Fair Go”. Brian Edward’s interview made for riveting television, just to see an excellent interviewer in action for once, and both were, in there own way, examples of interviewing you just don’t get anymore from journalists who were actually journalists.

    Made me sad to hear and see them, and contemplate the utter ruination of NZ journalism today.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1711 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Samthecat,

    Personally having had to spend 10 years working my way through a law degree in the 70’s I would have loved a student loan. It still makes me snicker when I get the youngsters in my office complaining about their student loans while signing up to buy a used car from a finance house. My standard line is “One of these things is an investment in your future, and it ain’t the car”. They pay no heed.

    I did my degrees in the 80s. There were no bloody fees! Sure books cost a LOT some of them were almost $30. And rent was nearly $25 a week for my room! Going to University in the 70s or 80s was essentially a free ride. Something for which I am always grateful.

    Yes I worked multiple part time jobs and no I couldn't afford a car.

    But to dismiss the burden of that debt for the students of today is to demonstrate such an amazing lack of empathy that it leaves me sad for those who have to work for you.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3108 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    As for the 3news story. Did anyone actually mention that the whole frigging point of a government is to spend money. If we didn't need them to spend money on things like education we wouldn't need them at all.

    profitable government
    military intelligence
    ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3108 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    But to dismiss the burden of that debt for the students of today is to demonstrate such an amazing lack of empathy that it leaves me sad for those who have to work for you.

    I totally assumed that it was a joke. Did you not?

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 2969 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed, in reply to Samthecat,

    It still makes me snicker when I get the youngsters in my office complaining about their student loans while signing up to buy a used car from a finance house.

    At least they have jobs in the Great Recession. My heart bleeds for those who’ve gone into debt to upskill, only to find there’s no work. Like my 3 under-employed post-grad friends. No wonder Occupy Wall Street is gaining momentum.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 3901 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to George Darroch,

    Meanwhile, there was an actual news story. The Greens announced a Kiwisaver package with significant implications for savers and savings.

    Significant implications because it's inconsistent with Labour policy and suggests they won't be able to come to an agreement/will only be able to come to an agreement which effects significant costings? Or for some other reason? Because the only way (at this election) that a Green policy on Kiwisaver will actually have significant implications is if their policy becomes the policy of the National or Labour Party's.

    The Mana Party and Libertarianz have policies that would have significant implications for large swathes of people, as well, but they're about as likely to be enacted as the Green Party Kiwisaver policy.Green Party other policy? Sure - there's a possibility. Green Party Kiwisaver policy? Highly, highly unlikely to have any implications on anyone at all (unless of course, they're terming it a bottom line that will have implications for government formation - like the Green Party's GE moratorium policy in 2002(?)).

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 2969 posts Report Reply

  • DCBCauchi,

    Bart's line about the point of governments is extremely funny. And this is a very interesting and generally excellent article. More please!

    No response from 3 yet? How long have they had?

    Wouldn't think you need to take much time to be upfront and honest. Manufacturing a dishonest response though is a different story. Innit?

    Since Feb 2011 • 320 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    I totally assumed that it was a joke. Did you not?

    What - the bit about his unmatched travails going through law school, or laughing at people with student loans? The humour is difficult to discern either way.

    Amherst, MA • Since Nov 2006 • 2087 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    I totally assumed that it was a joke. Did you not?

    Didn't have a lightness to it that one might connect with a joke. But I could be wrong, he might be a charming chap who even gives girls the opportunity to do his filing for him in their heels and miniskirts and I might have just had a humour fail.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3108 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    Where does he get those toys?
    "They are socially quite a long way to left and economically they want to put a lot of costs on businesses and slow down the economy so in that regard they are much more akin to Labour."
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10764359

    Since Dec 2006 • 2468 posts Report Reply

  • DCBCauchi, in reply to merc,

    The voice of reason: 'And Act have been very stable'!

    Since Feb 2011 • 320 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    If they've got capital gains income and aren't paying back their student loan, why would charging interest change their position? Until capital gains cease to be tax-free, people who have largely tax-free income will have no encouragement to repay their student loans because they'll not be over the threshold.

    Depending on the policy, not so. If you charge interest regardless, then their loans will increase when they're not paying it back.

    Many of us had this for numerous years as students.

    If you write off some interest (perhaps to people who aren't earning enough to pay it off) then yes.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6145 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed, in reply to merc,

    Where does he get those toys?
    “They are socially quite a long way to left and economically they want to put a lot of costs on businesses and slow down the economy so in that regard they are much more akin to Labour.”

    In before the phrase, "An entrenched culture of statism and dependency have destroyed the entrepreneurial will of the nation. If NZers want to reject prosperity then I hope they're happy."

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 3901 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to merc,

    slow down the economy

    Another line of bullshit not being countered in any discernable form by the opposition. Overpaid amateurs.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15718 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    Was a Batman quote because you know, how does John get these neat articles in the Herald on a Monday morning, arguably it's a freakin' ad, and why is the Herald constantly signalling for John whether or not he is going to support Banks?
    How, tell me how?
    Question for John, of all your 2008 election promises which one's do you feel you have acheived competently - points off for mentioning Labour or the Financial crises, or Christchurch, or Pike River because you know as well as I do that these were not part of your election promises. Perhaps now that Veitch has destroyed Cunniliff for you, I get to nominate the questioner?

    Since Dec 2006 • 2468 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    Or taxable income that's below the repayment threshold. Or non-taxable income (e.g. via capital gains). And charging interest could encourage that lot to pay up.

    At the expense of drowning everyone but the third group in more unrepayable debt.

    The core problem here is that the "private benefit" of tertiary education, on which the scheme is predicated, isn't all its cracked up to be. A fairly significant proportion of graduates never see that benefit, even using the government's sub-minimum wage definition of it. Which means they end up saddled with debt, with nothing (at least, nothing that Treasury would recognise) to show for it.

    We need some way of dealing with this. If someone left study in 1992, has stayed in NZ and has never made a repayment since, then I think its fairly clear that they're unlikely to, and their loan should be (gradually) written off. Debts that can't be repaid won't be repaid, and it is false accounting to pretend otherwise.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1591 posts Report Reply

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