The tax cuts will mean more in my pocket on pay day, but the GST increase and the other increases in user charges will likely mean at best it's neutral for my family, although I'm personally in the top tax?

This is a tax cut for the rich, yes, but I struggle to get too worked up about it

I'm happy for you. For my part, I know that each dollar saved by the top earners equals one dollar less in the already pitiful services available to my daughter -?

Can't bear to look at the other education?

The argument that Australia?

I'd be quite happy to pay more tax.

As with Sam Morgan, you are welcome to make additional direct payments

O rly? (see "Total Net Change" column).

As with Sam Morgan, you are welcome to make additional direct payments

Oh fuck off already. (Not you, Mr. English.)

"He could look to just write out a cheque to IRD. They won't send it back, they'll bank it," Mr English said yesterday. Though Mr Morgan probably did earn some income and pay some tax, **the?

i was expecting ponies.

ponies :(

i was expecting ponies.

Well, use your extra money in the pocket to buy a pony on easy credit terms.

But bear in mind that with the increase in gst on fodder, you may not be able to feed it. So unless you're buying it in order to?

the already pitiful services available to my daughter – which were cleverly cut ahead of time to make it look like my family is a winner on budget day.

I haven't delved into the disability support figures yet (let alone education, social development, etc), but off the top of my?

Over here, George W Bush gave us a nice tax cut a couple of years ago. Ours went into the bank, but apparently everyone else went shopping, and the economy?

That's the problem with this country. No entreprenurial vision.

Unfortunately, David Harris was right.

only 16% of macroeconomics are wrong, after all.

Frankly I'd much rather have a progressive tax system. I'd be quite happy to pay more tax.

Yeah, I keep hearing that but I don't actually believe it because all too often it seems to turn into "I'd be quite happy if someone else paid a lot more tax, and?

Not only can we not know whether it?s real or not now, but we won?t know whether it?s real or not in 2013/14.

So if they're right fine and dandy and if they're wrong we're F'd.

So is it OK with them if we withhold their salaries until 2014 and?

http://publicaddress.net/6331

This is going to be the norm for the foreseeable future.

you?d only do it if you were deliberately trying to mislead

OMG politician tries to mislead public! Pictures at 10.

cut the funding rates for the 20 Hours scheme from at least $11.42 per child per hour to a max of $10.88 per child per hour

But Julie, all those less-qualified early childhood education workers will be cheaper to hire. Bugger the quality, since when has ECE been a good?

I keep hearing that but I don't actually believe it because all too often it seems to turn into "I'd be quite happy if someone else paid a lot more tax,

Please believe that my class interest and my conscience couldn't be more opposed.

just give me my pony and a pot to cook it in

Socialism! Buy your own food and cookware, comrade..

ponies :(
i was expecting ponies.

Ghostcrawler already gave you a pony*

*note truly random geek link you have been warned.

Sacha if I didn't know you were being sarky I might cry.

Ah yes, sorry about that. I'm trying on that tone, inspired by Danyl and others who admittedly do it far better than me

Buy your own food and cookware, comrade..

nooo... you'll need to subcontract the cooking to someone who owns the pots. make sure you flick the bits you aren't intending to eat on to the city mission.

trickle-down in action. the poor eat sausages after all, we all know which bits?

the poor eat sausages after all, we all know which bits are in there.

good honest bits, the guts of the nation, etc.
know my place, guv

Craig I think you can colour me serious

I'm sure I can, Julie, but you're in the minority. All too often I've heard that statement with more riders and exemptions than your average insurance policy fine print. :)

know my place, guv

good girl. now go take care of the children and cook me some dinner.

Frankly I'd much rather have a progressive tax system. I'd be quite happy to pay more tax.

Yeah, I keep hearing that but I don't actually believe it because all too often it seems to turn into "I'd be quite happy if someone else paid a lot more tax, and?

But bear in mind that with the increase in gst on fodder, you may not be able to feed it. So unless you're buying it in order to make tasty pony stew in the stockpot, then it's not a good idea.

Nono. Hold onto the pony, cover your pony mortgage?

a gross generalisation

ewww

Gross generalisations aren't ad hominem arguments

but "You would say that; you're poor" is.

Hold onto the pony

Just make sure it only lives 50 years, max

We are all fucked.

As with Sam Morgan, you are welcome to make additional direct payments

Whilst "fuck off" was a reasonable response to this comment it is worth, just for the record, pointing out why.

Taxation, whether by the government, the Pope or your feudal lord relies on a collective. They idea is?

So is it OK with them if we withhold their salaries until 2014 and if they're right they get paid? You know like performance based pay.

Sir, you missed the punchline. We can wait till 2014, and it'll still be impossible to know if they were right or wrong.

Community Gaming Association chairman John Burke says GST increase to 15% will mean less money for community groups from proceeds of gambling.

Can't decide whether to go with:
a) Widdums.
b) Silly compulsive gamblers --?

(Isn't Sacha a boy?)

Oh right. Stereotype someone whilst they are down, why don't you...

(Isn't Sacha a boy?)

i consider myself an equal opportunity sexist.

Nono. Hold onto the pony, cover your pony mortgage and expenses entirely from renting it out, and then sell it off with a big capital gain.

Depends on interest rates.

I thought you were against argumenti ad hominem.

Go pick up that bait your lobbed at my head before it leaves a blood stain on the carpet, that's a good chap.

my favourite spectacularly disingenuous Budget reax

Just thought I'd take the chance to agree with you, Craig. :)

Well, spending on children's education has been cut, but at least they'll have roads of National significance [to whore themselves on as adults] for decades to come

will be interesting to see how many parents are forced out of work by the cuts to childhood education subsidies.

one of my?

Hey, Sacha. Fancy a tipple at 6?

Sorry, been in the kitchen. Might be cutting it a bit fine for me tonight.

Rich justice. Mark Bryers gets 75 hours community service and $37,500 fine but is bankrupt so presumably doesn't have to pay it and is living well in Aus, thanks very much.

That's the New Zealand justice system for you. Meanwhile, National are spending billions more on new prisons, and have?

ponies :(

I was expecting ponies.

A "pony" is slang in Britain for a five fivers, or 25 pounds.

So, about $52.75. How's that line up with your expectation?

the suspension of payments to the super fund

note these have now been extended another two years to 2018

Nice of them to choose to not save for our retirement.

Sorry, been in the kitchen. Might be cutting it a bit fine for me tonight.

Well what about 6.30, same pub, same peoples :) I gotta get the gas bottle filled for the heater so running late.

3410, take note. :)

After all the bleating about the borrowing that is going on, the Govt now has to?

a top threshold of say $150,000 with a 38% rate would have taken care of the borrowing

You want somebody who earns* over 150k to pay five more cents in every dollar earned above that bare subsistence amount? You monster!

*(that's got to be a term used quite loosely when?

And yet Vernon Small tells us that the budget is "impressive" and "stunning" budget for debt reduction.

It's only because Labour was so fiscally prudent that National can?

And as Lyndon Hood points out

Seems for his tax cuts Key's example is a young couple, just got married, on $50 000 each. #nohashtagcandojustice

It's a?

take note

I shall.

It's a nice world Key lives in

some call it Parnell, others Hawaii

It's a nice world Key lives in

some call it Parnell, others Hawaii

but no one calls it Helensville

some call it Parnell, others Hawaii

Don't be hatin the rich. When there are more rich people paying less tax we're all better off, no matter what our incomes

It is the same formula – a magical belief in the power of tax cuts, funded by pretending tomorrow will never come.

(And since our media mistake "being fair and balanced" with "having no historical memory" the electorate needs to go through an injection of these policies every decade or so. Until they go – ah, yes, that's why we rejected them last time around!)

However, the continual march away from public?

Palm Nth woman – defrauded WINZ of $39,000 – sentence: 8 months jail (2010)

Southland couple – defrauded WINZ of $38,000+ – sentence: 8 months jail (2007)

Where is the justice?

I think John Key is the token leftie in the discussion.

"The rich people don't pay taxes. There's an old saying in Greece ? the more money you steal the better off you are. If you steal a few euros, a few hundred euros you go to jail ... you steal thousands of euros,?

funded by pretending tomorrow will never come.

Does anybody know of a lobby group for the taxpayers of 2035 or similar? Seriously – a media-savvy group that could actually point out the implications of policy and tax decisions for any 30 year old who actually intends to still be around?

So, what Julie is really saying is that since she wants to pay more tax, everyone else has to as well. I can see how well that line of argument will work.

It actually works quite well in many places actually. And it used to work here. What people "actually"?

will be interesting to see how many parents are forced out of work by the cuts to childhood education subsidies.

one of my workmates has decided against more children for that very reason.

pity you can't just let the little fckers out to roam around a paddock like you can?

I wish PAS had been around when Dr Cullen introduced the 39 cent rate back in 2000. No doubt it would have been cheers and beers all around.

Well it was a very clear election promise that they were going to introduce it, unlike the 'No increase in GST' that?

How did people cope in all the generations before that particular Labour bribe anyway?

Historically, the working wage was sufficient to support a stay-at-home parent, almost always the mother. New Zealand had full employment. The DPB was introduced to support those few mothers who did not have a man supporting?

So, what Julie is really saying is that since she wants to pay more tax, everyone else has to as well?

No, she's saying that she reckons that people in her tax bracket *ought to* pay more tax. Not that hard a concept to grasp, I would have thought.

What will it take for these people to notice the invisible? A Baader-Meinhof Group?

What will it take for these people to notice the invisible? A Baader-Meinhof Group?

No, because these people, the non-aspirational, are the problem. They're not getting rich and wonderful. They're not people, in the sense that media needs people it can identify with.

Meantime – it's a wonder Terry Seripisos hasn't been interviewed by the msm

Remember if you defraud the country and you are well paid it is unfairness that means you need a tax cut!

If you?

Unless you're Greek, you can't run up continued spending with an ever-shrinking tax base.

or american.

seems like the grasshopper generation are voting themselves deferred debts pretty much world-wide.

better start toughening the wee man up for a life of productive work to pay it all back. he's only 18months,?

Interestingly, when using the tax calculator linked to earlier, the difference in 'weekly income' clawed back for my partner and myself from the tax cut between this year while I'm earning ~$13K and next year when i'll be earning $0 is ~$1.50 a week. Why is this?

I don't want?

I wish PAS had been around when Dr Cullen introduced the 39 cent rate back in 2000. No doubt it would have been cheers and beers all around.

I was above the 39% threshold then, as I am now, and I thought it was a good idea. It seems like?

or american.

Well, the one thing that consoles me is that we're not racking up huge debts to pay for military adventures and shiny new fighter jets. Clark bought a few new expensive things, and the occupation of Afghanistan costs us something, but for the most part they keep things?

the suspension of payments to the super fund
note these have now been extended another two years to 2018
Nice of them to choose to not save for our retirement.

Well at least it also makes comparing our tax burden by suggesting we have super covered is a joke! http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10644470?

hmmm?

garth, little word with you on some white-collar crime? hmmm?

And yet Vernon Small tells us that the budget is "impressive" and "stunning" budget for debt reduction.

GLARE.

FISK: ON.

It seems like you think most people are really venal, but I'm not sure that they are. At least I'm not.

It's a core conservative belief: that all people are bastards. Of course if you happen to be a bastard it's probably something of a consolation. At any rate, it's?

there's nothing substantive in this budget to address climate change.

Heh. Our glorious minister for the trucking lobby was on the radio the other day talking about transport policy thirty years from now as if we'll never even run short of oil. If National can't come to terms with peak?

The man behind the tree in this case is the national equity we managed to build up despite the constant clamouring for tax?

The only solace I find in this budget is that they are going back on last year's budget announcement on cutting $45 million from the teacher staffing budget. This will no longer happen.

Where did they announce this?

I thought that part of National's cunning plan was to equalise the top personal rate and the company rate, it has been reduced from 8% to 5%, but that is still quite a gap.

So, the rich get to cheat on their lower taxes. Wonderful.

peak oil (which WILL have happened by 2040)

happened last year didn't it?

Where did they announce this?

Don't be silly, that would make them look weak, especially Tolley the decider. Media will realise it tomorrow, though no doubt it will be spun to death as well.

Historically, the working wage was sufficient to support a stay-at-home parent, almost always the mother. New Zealand had full employment. The DPB was introduced to support those few mothers who did not have a man supporting them.

And basically, we've been scammed out of a person's worth of time.

I?

And does anyone know the source for Cunliffe's 5.9% inflation claim? It seems beyond belief. Usually RBNZ would be all over it, but since I'm overseas I might have missed something.

The BEFU. These are treasury's numbers, not Cunliffe's.

I too will be interested to see the employment effect of this little disaster

Will have to find more time tomorrow, but saw cycleway maestro Key claiming Treasury projecting 190,000 new jobs as a result of all the "growth" caused by cutting rich people's tax (or is it the socking?

Not that people on a salary of $150,000 give a shit about "working an extra hour". That only motivates little people, who actually need money...

"In the end I had to carry out wider responsibilities, but I think I'm fundamentally a nice guy, but have to follow instructions," he says.

Well it was a very clear election promise that they were going to introduce it, unlike the 'No increase in GST' that we heard from the Nats at the last election.

Mike: I'm afraid I've been away from the television this evening. Anyone ask Goff whether Labour will be cutting?

It's a core conservative belief: that all people are bastards.

Just you, dear.

looks a lot like they'll be able to supply the majority of the nation's trucking needs off our poo.

land transport isn't really the worry with peak oil (IMHO), it's plastics. and jet fuel.

Where did they announce this?

It's all on the Ministry site

I thought that part of National's cunning plan was to equalise the top personal rate and the company rate, it has been reduced from 8% to 5%, but that is still quite a gap.

That's what stood out for me. Yeah sure National is going to cut taxes, this is?

those guys working on converting sewerage to biodiesel are smart cookies.

Assuming you are talking about that crowd of shysters in Marlborough, their claims are a load of old clarts and their system is very small scale, inefficient and expensive.

Algal fuels will only become a viable alternative to fossil?

The nation voted Tory. That means I have to put up with that decision.

Well, I suppose you have a point. The producers of Morning Report must agree with you since they got "our" Rob Hosking and Fran O' to provide balanced commentary just now. You wouldn't want to have?

I'd like to do that. I've got interest from others. Haven't actually put any work into it yet, but this is part of my plan for 2011.

Would love to know if and when you do so I can join the fun. I'm sure I can serve the tea?

Oh and Craig, right back at you – in fact, fuck right off.

Thanks, Gio — the contempt is entirely mutual. Now, don't go getting all over-emotional and shoot someone in the head (since we're trading offensively mindless caricatures).

After 6 years of working towards a qualification (combined with beginning a family), next year is pegged for the final push (full time study for 18 months). I'll not have the time to do any paid work while doing the course. We'll be paying for 52 hrs a week ECE?

It's a core conservative belief: that all people are bastards.

That's not up to your usual standard, although I expect you were being a little ironic? I can see how this is personal for you, and I?

Those on $150,000 are, rarely, working by the hour, sure some may charge billable hours but those hours are so ridiculously expensive they cant work the 9 to 5 shift without embarrassment, so they have long working lunches and expense accounts to ease the pain. Poor dears.

You forgot the?

It's a core conservative belief: that all people are bastards.

But I thought that conservatives think that lefties think (stay with me here) that all people are bastards, because we don't trust people enough to assume that in the event of the removal of the welfare system they'll give a?

That's not up to your usual standard, although I expect you were being a little ironic?

Not at all. And I was quoting more or less verbatim from PJ O'Rourke, who ought to know.

better start toughening the wee man up for a life of productive work to pay it all back. he's only 18months, but he'll likely start needing to be at work by the time he's 8 or 10.

I have a chimney that's desperately in need of a clean, especially with?

He'll get a shiny thruppence if he does a good job.

I hope you can claim back the GST.

Also I assume the little one is going to issue a proper invoice, and that this thruppence is going to go through their accounts? I'd hate to see them avoiding paying?

Why I am a conservative.

There is no virtue in compulsory government charity, and there is no virtue in advocating it. A politician who portrays himself as caring and sensitive because he wants to expand the government's charitable programs is merely saying that he is willing to?

Anyway, I did a good job of deflecting aye? You can tell me to fuck off now too if it makes you feel better. I'm just waiting for Craig to do the same.

Pickled kakapo is the only dish for the serious connoisseur.

Guess I'm not up there with the great and the good then. I prefer simpler fare, such as tuatara eggs on a bed of Cyathea dealbata – obviously served by the poor (when they're not too busy rorting the welfare?

No, because these people, the non-aspirational, are the problem. They're not getting rich and wonderful. They're not people, in the sense that media needs people it can identify with.

can we have their oxygen then, please...

those guys working on converting sewerage to biodiesel are smart cookies.

converting pipes n?

Eating babies is just so last year. Pickled kakapo is the only dish for the serious connoisseur.

what happened to the Black Robin Egg Omelette?

I didn't put it that way, PJ did

But you laughed!

Look, I'm not trying to pick fights, just expressing dismay. And it's been a very long week of dealing with the aforementioned public services, so the disconnect between the commentary and reality seems particularly strident.

For me, lower taxes is not the end objective, but creating a society that respects and provides for those less well off is what we should be aiming for.

I dispute that it's just the less well off who benefit. Suppose you found that your child was autistic: even if?

For years my accountant has been trying to sell me on various ways to avoid paying tax?

Edit: and that sounds sort of patronising, but hopefully you'll forgive my poor vocab.

There is this ridiculous portrayal of tax as something evil that must be minimised. Whereas the truth is tax is what we as a society agree to pay to the government to allow the government to do things we can't effectively do ourselves. eg pay for?

what happened to the Black Robin Egg Omelette?

Don't they only go black if you overcook them?

That's the difficulty. If you get them wrong they taste bitter. My personal Michelin-rated chef says the secret is in to sprinkle a little gold dust into the mixture before you heat it.

It is complete nonsense to argue we should try and reduce tax when the evidence of the last century is that those nations that embraced the value of tax and the benefits of government spending are the nations with the best standard of living.

With the exception of Singapore? Although?

The children of the undeserving poor are so malnourished these days that they are either quite flavourless, or having been fed or a steady diet of junk food since birth, tend to leave a slightly chemical?

If as a society decide we want and need better health care then increasing taxation to achieve that is the right and proper thing to do.

To be fair, though: Rob might respond that cutting taxes is the way to increase tax receipts, and Treasury projects that this will happen?

I'd also point out that it's been tried before

Doing the same thing and expecting different results ... isn't that definition of something or other...

I forget if there is a preparation method.

Ah, I see what you did there....

There is this ridiculous portrayal of tax as something evil that must be minimised. Whereas the truth is tax is what we as a society agree to pay to the government to allow the government to do things we can't effectively do ourselves

Gordon Campbell makes the excellent point that?

So who's going to be more productive on October 2nd then? All of us, right? And we're all going to make more money straight away yeah? So tax receipts go up? Right? Guys?

F**kin' stepchanges, how do they work?

(Poss NSFW for language, obviously)

I wonder if they factored in the jobs that will continue to be be lost as public sector budgets stay below the rate of inflation and cost increases? Maybe the private sector will hire?

I do have to agree with my fellow plutocrats that eating babies is overrated.

The children of the undeserving poor are so malnourished these days that they are either quite flavourless, or having been fed or a steady diet of junk food since birth, tend to leave a slightly chemical?

* Whatever you think of the budget itself we have to admit that it was a masterpiece of media strategy: they got the issue of tax-cuts for the rich out well?

Journos are also letting Key and others give examples of $50k salaries as if that is "average" – when it is well above what most New Zealanders bring in, sadly.

Some 3news journo on the midday news yeasterday actually said that 50k was the average income.

Can't work out why?

What sort of average are they talking about? Mean? Median? Or Made Up?

The latter, looking at Statistics NZ information on income in the June 2009 quarter. Unless our economy has grown at a phenomenal rate in the last 12 months – and isn't the Budget predicated on no such?

...on the midday news yeasterday actually said that 50k was the average income.

they should raise their game!
;- )

It seems that the whole underlying premise of this budget (and many others before it) is: 'What tax cuts can we give to make us more popular?'

Not quite. If popularity was what they were interested in, then they would simply have cut the lower and middle rates and shifted?

The fact they didn't do that suggests that delivering that enormous windfall was a core goal. This was about delivering to their donors.

I actually don't think the politics are that stupid. I remember some piece of evidence about tax cuts to uber-rich people. Despite the fact that 99.9% of?

I completely believe in paying taxes -?

Now I just need to figure out what charity or charities I would do the most good giving my tax cut money to. Seriously.

Walk to your nearest soup kitchen. They seriously need your cash.

Walk to your nearest soup kitchen. They seriously need your cash.

Yeah I was thinking about that. City Mission or something, you reckon?

"there are clever ways to not pay as much tax via setting up trusts??" who knew?

Most people in the top tax bracket who have an accountant with anything resembling a pulse, from my experience. Which, admittedly, isn't all of them.

City Mission or something, you reckon?

They had to do an extra unscheduled collection just last week. So you know they need it.

Unless our economy has grown at a phenomenal rate in the last 12 months – and isn't the Budget predicated on no such thing? – the median individual income from all sources is about $28k/year, and the mean is ~$36k.
The only way I can find an "average wage" that?

Walk to your nearest soup kitchen. They seriously need your cash.

Or if you're desperate and jobless, and want to keep the 'jealous masses' in check...