I may actually buy the Sunday Star times! :-)

With the ?War on Taggers? (coined by the ?delighted? Gordon Copeland),

But for his lacking in hipness he might have thought to coin it the war on otara tagg3rs

How do those trends look if you split the 'violence' figures into more specific categories of severity, Keith? Does it change?

and there's maybe 20 years of initiatives to give taggers dedicated spaces in neighbourhoods. somehow?

Who exactly must DT? Where and when? How do we determine the downtrouee and the downtrouer?

As for the execution of the downtrou itself... well I'm not sure I?

great spelling, I'm teaching my PC and phone at once)

I can see how having that saved would be useful.

tagging is always conducted "against property" by those who have none. that's a pretty important variable that someone should be taking into consideration.

Like... we could ban people who don't own property? I can see this might have positive repercussions for the housing affordability issue.

Have these worked in places where they were tried?

I was impressed with an analysis I read that discussed tagging as essentially the personal application of branding (hence the obsession with stylised logo-like text). Taggers want visibility and prestige?

It is this completely natural state of affairs [the old hating the young – I/S] that is, I believe, behind the Government's current war on graffiti (in addition to it being a nice cheap way to gain a few extra votes).?

People tend to imagine a straight-line relation between things like enforcement (or, say, social deprivation) and the amount of crime.

But if you make a model where there the crime is socially influenced, then the more influence there is the more?

Or is this your subtle lawyerly way of exacting revenge for his Werewolf algorithm?

Bloody LARPers :)

For confirmation of this view, check out the name of the anti- graffiti initiative: Stop Tagging Our Place. "Our place", understand? Not your place.

While I understand the point the writer is making, and I'm sympathetic to the "you're just getting down on young people for cheap votes" line.

In?

just like the bloke who murdered that teenager

Pre-judging the trial outcome just a little bit here?

Having recently made the transition from not having property, to having property, and having recently been doing those normal DIY things like painting, mending fences etc. I have to say I would indeed?

this is not about the tagging, but about the taggers

I beg to differ – it's not about the taggers, either. It's about the voters.

I can understand people getting pissed off at taggers. If my fence kept getting bombed I'd be bloody annoyed. I look after my property, I?

Pre-judging the trial outcome just a little bit here?

hmmm... current information is "angry man stabs youth. youth dies".

even if the verdict is watered down, it's murder in my books.

current information is "angry man stabs youth. youth dies".

even if the verdict is watered down, it's murder in my books.

What if the story is, man hears people (more than one) vandalising his property, goes out to confront them and get them to stop. Fearing being attacked when he?

Since graffiti prevention co-ordinator Bruce Wood started last October there has been a decrease in the amount of tagging and an increase in the number of prosecutions for willful damage.

Whilst one story does not a summer make, I'd suggest that the?

Tell you what would interest me anyway. Have penalties for wilful damage kept pace with inflation? Are prosecution rates what they used to be? Maybe?

A particularly interesting piece of research would be to see just how many taggers homes are emblazoned with tags?

I can't imagine very many taggers own their own home. And no landlord (particularly if the landlord is Ma or Pa) is going to be impressed if you've spraypainted all over?

Have penalties for wilful damage kept pace with inflation?

Largely. The fine was $1000 in 1981 when enacted, and this was increased to $2000 from 1998.

I would note that the penalty for the new tagging offence is lower than the maximum penalty for wilful damage. The penalty for wilful?

20 years ago I was never caught...

Ah – therein lies the problem. It's not the penalty, it's the getting caught.

I/O – it's not that anyone is for tagging, per se, it's just how to deal with those kids who do.

Consequences – yes, absolutely. But the key to?

20 years ago I was never caught, so one could argue that little has changed. But back then we knew we could be caught and if we did we would be in a lot of trouble. Nowadays? Nothing really happens if you're caught.

Twenty years ago I was... well, I?

They are not interested in doing proper graffiti 'murals' because that is too hard and they are lazy kids who just want to be 'famous' by throwing up their scrawl wherever they can.

Which seems only partly true. There are some who are only interested in getting their?

FYI – before anyone accuses me of being a hypocrite: I was never a tagger, I did (as part of a crew) whole walls. As I've said before, tagging is just pissing on a lamp-post to mark your territory.

But that's not a distinction politicians or the general public?

What if the story is,[...] Still murder? Manslaughter? Self-defence (i.e. nothing)?

graeme, i'll thank you not to fck up my extreme levels of uninformed outrage with reasonableness.

Dr McCaskill CBE was a conservationist.

Modernisation/improved facilaties might replace this beautiful building, but I doubt it.

If you ever find yourself at Lincoln Uni go to the Library & up the?

I forget the name but there was that movie where they bombed the trains in the stealth of night.

Wild Style
Beat Street
Style Wars (this is the PBS doco they screened on NZTV in the 80s that got kiwi kids started)

The penalty for Billsticking, defacing, etc (which includes spraying any structure) is $200 (increased from $100 from 1998).

What a relief, only a $200 dollar fine for posting bills. I hope that also applies to stencil art in public places. I assume tagging is well defined in law. I dam?

My old man tells me it's been going on at least 60 years, and that the police?

Thanks IO I believe it was Beat Street

Yeah, but the Beat Street plot (vis a vis the train graf) was heavily 'inspired by the Style Wars doco:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Uu1B-AYZhI

FYI: February 10, 2008
Style Wars Director Dies

Director of the legendary hip-hop documentary Style Wars, Tony Silver, died last weekend?

Public Murals very really get tagged. Why is that?

That would be nice if it were true, but more than a few of my favourite murals in Wellington have been destroyed by taggers over the years.

That would be nice if it were true, but more than a few of my favourite murals in Wellington have been destroyed by taggers over the years.

I haven't noticed. I have seen the odd tag over a mural, it's generally rear compared to tags on bland walls.

There was?

]]> Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:16:39 +1300 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-children-come-first-except-when-walls/?p=42382#post42382 http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/onpoint-children-come-first-except-when-walls/?p=42382#post42382

I think I/O and Steven Crawford have outdone themselves with actual useful things to say. The MSM have been friggin doing my head in with their coverage of yoof crime.

Well I tentatively agree with that. I'm feeling like a gaged animal. all this stock standard typography and grammatical regulation?

A good idea, but you know they'll also come back and tagg the sh1t out of the swing set later don't you?

Well, you'd hope that having to 'face up to their community' would make that less like. Restorative Justice and all that.

But even if not, if you tag?

all this stock standard typography and grammatical regulation is nutting me out.

I once read that graffiti is a very conservative artform. The standard form was established in the 1970s and there's been little change to it since then. Very few graffiti artists veer from the template of writing their?

I once read that graffiti is a very conservative artform.

I don't think that Tag-graffiti is an art-form per-say. The big bubble letters, They are typographical design along with most other tags. It can be categorized in a relatively limited artistic context, in my opinion. As Robyn say's, it's conservative.?

the grafitti removal art is really nice – a bit mondrian but less uptight

personally I enjoy the sense of the city as being continually overwritten, palimpsest style...and we might as well like it because change happens with or without an accompanying sense of irony and wry enjoyment that the?

I noticed around the corner from my place last night, that some zany marketing agency for Telecom have put cheeky little stencil arts of that new Okta branding (the swanky avatar/paper-cutout people things) amongst work from Component etc.
Clearly we need to amend the Telecom separation legislation to include anti-tagging?

On the other hand, it is a shame that it has to be for Coke.

Fact of life. Every now and then, Coca-Cola Inc. adopts a campaign embracing "edgy" creative. I'd take the money too.

Red Bull is dreadful sugared caffeine water, but I also don't blame the kids who?

(Or is this your subtle lawyerly way of exacting revenge for his Werewolf algorithm?)

Umm, yeah David – that was it totally!!

And what the hell is a LARKER????

My bad. Again.

I meant Larper.... I don't know what that is either.

I feel?

It started because a middle-aged white male killed a kid. Now, shouldn't we be doing something to get the not insubstantial number of middle-aged white psychopaths (someone who considers that killing is an appropriate response to petty vandalism is, in my book, a psychopath)?

Further, if painted over, it could remove the upper paint layer and restore itself.

If erasure was persistenly attempted, it could proceed to eat the wall and turn it into Grey Gloop.

Many taggers are far too young to buy an Evo and thus are deprived of the opportunity of using the car accelerator as a means of self?

But I love it for its artisitic merit too. Sure some of it is crap, but there's alot of other images out there?

But I love it for its artisitic merit too. Sure some of it is crap, but there's alot of other images out there?

Sometimes where the artist has managed to tag is?

Hillary – are you drawing a distinction between tagging and graffiti art?

Now that's an interesting dilemma for the law makers. What is the difference?

I'm sure anyone can see some art in graffiti of somesort. Say Sir Eds pic on the santioned sit cnr of Riccarton Rd & the Railway track in Christchurch.

This space was set aside for graffiti art to reduce/stop?

Law makers / Councils do draw a distinction between Graffiti Art & Tagging

OK, do you think this would fit the legal distinction criteria? Photo

Kowhai – Graffiti as art even if it's not to your taste can be art. Those who may dismiss it I'm sure would see some value in the subject at least, being Sir Ed Hillary. This is at the top of Riccarton Rd on?

Why not spend $6 Million on starving children?

I could starve children for much less than that. Where do I apply for the tender form?