OnPoint by Keith Ng

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OnPoint: Iraq, from the air

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  • Simon Grigg,

    Please keep us updated, if the situation warrants it

    Word is the Thai Army's Psych Ops is playing the redshirts Boney M right now. Better than water cannons for breaking resolve perhaps

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3284 posts Report

  • 3410,

    Boney M? You could do a lot worse.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report

  • chris,

    The Village People

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report

  • Simon Grigg,

    Bruce Springsteen

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3284 posts Report

  • Sacha,

    Didn't they use the boss at gitmo?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    Nuremberg and Tokyo made it very clear that the primary responsibility for the more wide ranging crimes that led to those orders still lies further up the chain of command, as the sweeping indictments in those trials made evident.

    I'm not sure that the Tokyo War Crimes Trial made all that much of anything clear.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report

  • Simon Grigg,

    I'm not sure that the Tokyo War Crimes Trial made all that much of anything clear.

    Hence the comments posted afterwards by both Joe and myself.

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3284 posts Report

  • Simon Grigg,

    Didn't they use the boss at gitmo?

    And Queen & Aerosmith got Noriega out of his hole in Panama so they could quickly tuck him away in the he knows far too much about us holding pens in Florida for the rest of his life.

    On reflection, Ra-Ra Rasputin sounds quite appealing

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3284 posts Report

  • Joe Wylie,

    On reflection, Ra-Ra Rasputin sounds quite appealing

    . . . Russia's greatest love machine. That's what immediately sprang to mind when I read your post above. Pray they don't use the godawful Ma Baker.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report

  • Danielle,

    Ra-Ra Rasputin

    'There was a cat that really was gone': the greatest ever historical analysis of anything in pop lyric form.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report

  • Jan Farr,

    Thanks for real news Simon. The photos are enlightening and inspiring.

    Carterton • Since Apr 2008 • 395 posts Report

  • Simon Grigg,

    Cheers Jan.

    This is worth watching, from a friend of ours:

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3284 posts Report

  • stephen walker,

    Emperor Hirohito's ultimate authority

    anyone who has read a reasonable cross-section of Japanese history 1850-1945, and especially 1915-1945, will understand that the Showa emperor never had "ultimate authority" even though everything was done in his name. a lot of machinations and manipulations went on in the army, navy and their respective ministries, and a lot of their jockeying took the form of co-opting relatives of the emperor for their own organisational benefit (as they perceived it). the imperial line was revered and feared. it was above criticism. so it was usefully employed by those wishing to engineer a clash with the US/UK. even if the Showa emperor had wanted to stop this impending clash, his actual ability to change the course set by the army and navy was very limited.

    nagano • Since Nov 2006 • 646 posts Report

  • Kyle Matthews,

    From my limited understanding, I believe that U.S. troops are allowed (are almost expected to in some cases) to refuse to obey illegal orders.

    My point was made in response to the claim that they're 'volunteer actions'. Which is a pretty broad statement to apply to the training that US soldiers go through.

    There's plenty of famous experiments that prove that you can make volunteers do things against their will via applying authority. The military command structure is partially designed to force underlings to follow orders that they don't understand and which might place them in considerable danger, for some perceived greater good.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report

  • Jan Farr,

    Thanks Simon - fascinating. What's your take on the conspiracy theory? Looking at Wikipedia on the subject of the two prime ministers things are not straightforward: the unbelievably rich, corrupt, right winger dramatically reduces poverty, launches a healthcare programme and fights drugs. And the also corrupt Democrat is accused by his own party of wanting to get rid of the monarchy and form a republic. The monarchy doesn't seem to have much reason to like either of them. The drug lords probably don't go much for Thaksin Shinawatra. And then the coup-prone army - who controls it?

    Regarding the high baht, this is what Reuters said a few days ago:

    Thai stocks, which have climbed 81 percent over the past 12 months, ended up 1 percent after sliding earlier on concerns over the prolonged protest. The baht currency eased about 0.2 percent, less than some had expected.

    "The red shirts have taken the pressure up another notch," said Tim Condon, chief Asia economist at investment bank ING.

    "But I interpret the reaction in the foreign exchange market and the stock market as evidence that, despite the political noise, negotiations are taking place among key interest groups that are helping resolve political transmission issues, which is investor-friendly."

    Carterton • Since Apr 2008 • 395 posts Report

  • Rich Lock,

    'There was a cat that really was gone': the greatest ever historical analysis of anything in pop lyric form.

    Hmm, I'd argue for The Stranglers.

    Whatever happened to Leon Trotsky? He got an ice pick. That made his ears burn.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Word is the Thai Army's Psych Ops is playing the redshirts Boney M right now. Better than water cannons for breaking resolve perhaps

    It's to my girlfriend's shame that Bony M would bring me to the scene quicker than just about anything.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report

  • Simon Grigg,

    @Jan. There is some irony in the fact that the battle by the rural masses to readjust the power balance away from the urban elite is being directed from a luxury suite in Dubai. And by someone who has the power to say stop to all this but seems to be so self absorbed that he doesn't know how or care.

    As to the conspiracy theory, yes it's increasingly widely held, and there are variations on it although I don't know how far these things go. But this has, they say, knocked 1% off the GDP in the short term, although some people have made a lot of money in the past few days speculating on the currency.

    That said, Thailand is a huge place, 70 million people, and resilient and I think most Thai people are so thoroughly shocked by Saturday that they've taken a big step back and are asking what happened, and how.

    The army..many of the soldiers are from the same backgrounds as the redshirted masses, these must be, in some cases, their friends, families or relatives on the other side.

    The explosion on Saturday night was fairly brief and mostly it's been a reasonably peaceful standoff, but something had to break and when they effectively closed down the 10 huge malls (Zen-Central is the biggest in Asia which is saying something) and the millions they generate daily, along the Chit Lom / Rama 1 strip for almost a week, it was obvious that it was coming to a head.

    The one that shocked me more was Khao San Rd, which is mostly just backpackers and thousands of grinning Euro kids on holiday, but it was a spread when they tried to clear the nearby Democracy Monument which sits on a very main road.

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3284 posts Report

  • Jan Farr,

    Thanks Simon. Any information at all from Thailand is a godsend. All we're getting is the armed conflict story.

    Carterton • Since Apr 2008 • 395 posts Report

  • Jan Farr,

    @Simon again: I can't say any longer that all we're getting is the armed conflict story, because I heard you, briefly, interviewed for RNZ news this afternoon. Nice work.

    Carterton • Since Apr 2008 • 395 posts Report

  • Simon Grigg,

    Thanks Jan, I've just had DomPost on the phone too. Charles Mabbett, the media adviser at the Asia New Zealand Foundation and a twitter buddy pointed them in my direction

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3284 posts Report

  • Sam F,

    Sorry for the brief interlude - it is tangentially related to the original topic - did anyone catch One News' segment on the Featherston POW shootings last night (video is on the other tab)?

    In February 1943 a bunch of Japanese POWs in a camp in Featherston refused to join a work detail, the alleged ringleader was threatened with a pistol and eventually shot at, and then the soldiers had no choice but to open up on the rest of the POWs because they were advancing with big nails, which they had apparently sharpened up to make them even pointier. Ah, right.

    It must have been horrible, says local historian, what with our boys having to shoot because... because one of our boys had started shooting?

    48 prisoners and 1 guard were killed - we saw the grave of the guard, not of the remaining victims - and there was a brief recap of NZ veterans' opposition to a memorial garden on the campsite, then some fluff about the wounds healing over time... and then: "The 10-part series The Pacific begins tonight at 8:30 on TV One".

    So to recap, we had a story in the middle of the news hour, not tied to an anniversary date of any kind, not featuring any new historical findings, and not even particularly respectful to the victims of the shootings, whose deaths were framed, ridiculously, as some kind of extension of the Pacific war onto our own New Zealand soil!!!1! - in short, no news value at all, just lame dressing-up of a really shameful episode in NZ wartime history for the sake of flogging another TV One product.

    Can you tell I was not particularly impressed?

    Anyway, derail over, carry on.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1611 posts Report

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Can you tell I was not particularly impressed?

    I had the same reaction. I was listening not watching the news item, but I wondered why they were covering it until they mentioned the Pacific series on TV.

    Using a massacre of prisoners in our past to flog your TV show. Classy.

    My partner has finally agreed with me that TV One news isn't worth watching, and is switching to 3.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report

  • 3410,

    My partner has finally agreed with me that TV One news isn't worth watching, and is switching to 3.

    3 News is hardly worth watching, unless you require news about Lady Gaga's ex-boyfriend, unusual car crashes on YouTube, odd TradeMe auctions, Tiger Woods' many mistresses, or Madonna's adoptions.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report

  • Steve Barnes,

    3 News is hardly worth watching, unless you require news about Lady Gaga's ex-boyfriend, unusual car crashes on YouTube, odd TradeMe auctions,

    John Campbell will be interviewing the washing machine at 7,

    Tiger Woods' many mistresses or Madonna's adoptions.

    There, I fixed it.
    ;-)

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report

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