We bring it on ourselves, I think. As an industry, we talk ourselves up as bearers of a civic duty, how fantastic the job is, how we'd hate to sell our soul to become a PR hack. It's all true, but damn, it makes for a lousy bargaining position.

That?

We've armed the robots? Is it too late to shutdown Skynet?

It's worse than that – they've called them SWORDs. Hasn't anyone seen Screamers?

Finally, Dominion-Post reporter and Parliamentary press gallery chairperson Vernon Small gave an entertaining talk on "mapping the crossroads between new media and ethics" and where the profession was headed. Like Judy Macgregor before him, he was pretty scathing of the blogosphere, calling bloggers "biased and unfair"?

The point I am trying to make is that internet readers are as real as newspaper readers. Treating them as second class citizens?

There are some unhelpful generalisations there.

Commendable understatement there, Russell. If I wanted to respond in kind, I could point to 'Asian Angst', 'Operation Leaf', John Manukia, and ask how many times has the Herald on Sunday had to retract stories about Sharon Shipton? When it comes to being "fundamentally?

Also on Rural Network: a guest expert blog on the same visitor's claim to glory in the field of soil science, which helped get?

Now tell me again how useless blogs are ...

Well some blogs are thoroughly useless. Just as (sorry Vernon and Judy) there are any number of newspapers and academic papers I wouldn't wipe my arse with, for fear of catching stupid cooties.

To be fair, I can get over my?

I found Judy McGregor particularly bizarre on that score.

So did I. Yes, I know journalists and sources need to get on, but you can't just go around saying things on the record and then deny that you've done it. Key burned her, and tried to use her as?

I deny being a journalist because I don't think I'm good enough (but I aspire to journalism on my better days).

At the risk of sounding like I'm giving you a virtual hand-job, you're perfectly "good" enough. It's a stupid as saying The Nation or The New Statesman are somehow?

"It's easy to say that the New York Times and other newspaper companies are screwed, but sometimes it helps to actually run the numbers. Do you know why they're screwed? It's actually?

Running the Numbers: Why Newspapers Are Screwed

see also

The shift in advertising spending from traditional media to online and digital alternatives is taking place across the globe. Already, some forecasters expect newspaper advertising to be overtaken by online spending in the?

Small and Macgregor make the classic mistake of believing political blogging to be synonymous with blogging per se. It isn't.

If you look at someone like me or Joanna, we've been writing stuff online/blogging for years without making any journalists fear for their jobs. I mean, if I write about?

McGregor, for example, said that Russell was great, but actually, he is a journalist and not really a blogger.?

I wonder though whether a co-op, or a lean little owner-operated business (like PA, or TPM) has the same management cost structures as an old-school paper. I don't think they do. A journalist in?

McGregor, for example, said that Russell was great, but actually, he is a journalist and not really a blogger. (Confusing the content with both the format and the medium.)

Actually, she said I use "old-fashioned journalistic techniques such as research to underpin a point of view," which is most flattering.?

I think it's more productive for all concerned if we let our work do the talking.

Sure – and something else to think about: Does every damn technological or cultural change have to be a zero-sum game and/or the Fifth Horseperson of the Apocalypse? Strange as this may sound, but?

it seems that in russell's case what you have is a slippage away from the medium being the reputable item (i.e. "anything in the?

Jason: yeah, an online-only newspaper is not going to earn the returns demanded by its shareholders.

A big part of the problem, especially at the bottom of the food chain in New Zealand, is that newspapers do make money, but instead of being invested, it's siphoned off to wherever the?

some of it is even believeable.

it seems that in russell's case what you have is a slippage away from the medium being the reputable item (i.e. "anything in the NYT is reliable", to the person speaking being the reputable thing.

That's it. Readers can have a relationship with a blogger that they don't have any?

how we'd hate to sell our soul to become a PR hack

Ah, yes, the scapegoat profession for unhappy journos. PR. Off topic, but having lived in PR land for a little while now, I'd argue most of the stereotypical observations about the 'dark side' are complete hogwash. Its no?

Whereas if Keith or I write something about a particular topic, people will have a fair idea where we're coming from, and choose to disregard it, take it with a grain of salt or give it credence.

In a way, the same thing applies to the comments made here in?

In the end, the differences between the two professions are not that huge

you should take a look at Adam Curtis' "Century of the Self"- or just read up on Edward Bernays. The undeniable convergence of the two professions is unnerving.
I'm with Keith?

Whereas if Keith or I write something about a particular topic, people will have a fair idea where we're coming from, and choose to disregard it, take it with a grain of salt or give it credence.

Good point – and to refer to your Hard News post, is it?

having lived in PR land for a little while now, I'd argue most of the stereotypical observations about the 'dark side' are complete hogwash.

When contemplating war, beware of babies in incubators

More than 10 years later, I can still recall my brother Sean's face. It was bright red. Furious.?

Readers can have a relationship with a blogger that they don't have any more with a masthead. The fact that something appears under the Herald masthead is almost meaningless now.

Curious. You really think so? Is it a result of them trying to be everything to everyone? Do you mean?

Curious. You really think so?

I'd agree, but not quite so broadly. The more you get your news from the internet, the more stories you see on the Herald (& Stuff) that are just lifted verbatim from the wires. If NZH was to only use locally generated material, it would be?

That's it. Readers can have a relationship with a blogger that they don't have any more with a masthead.

I like that model.

Now all I have to do is find a way to make money out of it.

The more you get your news from the internet, the more stories you see on the Herald (& Stuff) that are just lifted verbatim from the wires. If NZH was to only use locally generated material, it would be an awfully anorexic publication.

And the more you look at Scoop, the?

You really think [readers can have a relationship with a blogger]? Is it a result of them trying to be everything to everyone? Do you mean that the trust relationship is gone, too?

imho, absolutely. relationships are the basis of good blogging.

you don't need to be everything to everyone,?

20 articles of 2000 words at 10c a word is what? $4k. Maybe less if I got students and work experience kids to do some of the articles for bylines. Ditto photography.

I guess the real?

I like that model.

Now all I have to do is find a way to make money out of it.

Step 1 would be to turn comments back on on NRT. Relationships are two way beasts.

World's largest PR firm (in 1990) is all sweeness and light, then? "most" is a nice weasel word, eh?

Oohh, thats a low blow don't you think Stephen?. I think you've missed my point and invoked some mutant form of Godwins Law (false baby-killing claims in Iraq no less!)

My?

Believe it or not, there are decent people who work in PR and journalism

Believe it or not, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I never wrote anything to suggest that I think all journalists and PR people are bad. Such a suggestion would be clearly silly.

I think?

So I invoked a famous case in which the world's largest PR firm was shown irrefutably to be completely evil scum. This case suggests that maybe there is something to these "dark side" conspiracies after all

Yeah, well, I understand your point Stephen, and I know the particular case well,?

Adam Curtis' "Century of the Self"

I mentioned this once before, but it's available here.

Jason: yeah, an online-only newspaper is not going to earn the returns demanded by its shareholders.

I think we're waiting for the next generation of newspapers to break open online news.

Currently we have 'traditional' newspapers, that have gone online. The herald, the odt, the press, etc. Based in a?

Agree – find it annoying that there is no two-way relationship, and resent the lecturing tone – even over matters with which I agree with NRT – bad as a newspaper editorial.
– and?

but, maybe he should swtich them back on with kind of membership/registration proviso.

i very carefully?

The bottom line is he is happy to get other people to say what?

Whether he eggs the nutjobs on -?

You're lucky to even have a union in NZ. Just today (August 14), the Denver-based owner of?

maybe he should swtich them back on with kind of membership/registration proviso.

Blogger doesn't offer that option, and even if it did, I'm not sure that I would want to use it. As I said, I have neither the time nor the inclination to vet every comment, and neither?

Maybe you could have an article published here on occasion...

I was going to say that. Any time you do want a conversation I/S, consider the offer open.

Blogger doesn't offer that option, and even if it did, I'm not sure that I would want to use it.

you might want to consider moving your content over to a platform that does.

wordpress lets you vet a commenter the first time, then they're on their own.

but, you?

I'd think that choosing who to let in was a lot easier than worrying over each and every comment. (I'd probably be blackballed for excessive spikiness,?

D4J has just had his 4th ban with each one doubling in size – so this one is for two months.

Um, this could be part of your problem. That does seem awfully lenient for a fourth offense. We kick the little snots' arses out the door permanently after feck-up?

if you do appoint a moderator, please ensure you pay them the correct minimum wage, and look after things like their health, safety, and especially stress levels.

we know what you thatcherite tories are like.

Emma: Sadly you may win that bet. Most people though have responded quite well to the concept of a longer suspension each?

Police spokeswoman Maggie Leask said it was not illegal to remove a body, only to desecrate?