Random Play: He's just an excitable boy . . .
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well they've been pushing it as a "multi-purpose" stadium - but apart from rugby haven't really found someone else who will use it (it wont work for cricket) - they've suggested papal visits, big concerts (but national promoters, when asked, pointed out they couldn't fill it and wouldn't even think of booking acts that size for Dunedin).
Let's fact it planning on 30,000 people attending anything in a city of ~100,000 is, well, a bit silly - sure you might fill it once every few years but, let's assume you can fill it 10 times a year - that's 300,000 bums on seats a year - assuming you get a 20 year mortgage (pushes the $188M cost to $400M at a good rate) - that's 20M/year or we're subsidising $66/bum/seat - you can see why it's not going to be economically viable if the people who attend are asked to pay for it
I think that's the crux of it- what it's been "pushed" as isn't anywhere near the reality of what it will end up to be, and what they're expecting the ratepayers to stump for it seems, at this end of the bargain, the public was being sold if not a swindle or deception, then at least not exactly the whole story.
As I've said, I stopped following the issue in detail when I moved up to ChCh about 11 months ago, but have they actually made any guaruntees as to how it will be funded, and how much the public is expected to stump up for it?
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shambollock
Irish testicle?
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shambollock
Irish testicle?
Asterix character?
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As I've said, I stopped following the issue in detail when I moved up to ChCh about 11 months ago, but have they actually made any guaruntees as to how it will be funded, and how much the public is expected to stump up for it?
the City has committed to a big chunk, so has the regional council (yes we in Dunedin will be double taxed for it) - both are conditional on the other parties coming up with their part by Feb - the private committee coming up with a chunk of private cash from selling corporate boxes, naming rights etc and the regional trust - both have indicated that this may not happen - which would allow them to cancel the thing with appropriate poliitical face saving
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Paul C,
Agree with most of your objections / concerns about the new Dunedin stadium, but must pull you up on one thing.
Carsibrook is a shithole.
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It's amazing that in effect, it really hasn't progressed beyond the stage it was more than 18 months ago, when I wrote a feature on the debacle for Critic.
I was quite in favour of Dunedin having a new stadium. I think stadiums in residential areas are just foolish, and if it had been the first stadium in NZ with a roof on it then I thought that would probably draw in as many events as the additional cost, and improve the quality.
Sadly, Otago Rugby and Cricket can't play nicely together, so you won't be able to play cricket there. I would have thought that someone with a bit of design sense would have been able to contract the field with more seating for rugby, and park those seats under the stands to make the field bigger for cricket.
It's gone pretty much no where over the past two years while they've been arguing about funding rather than actually beginning the process of getting consents and building. And as Paul and Matthew have noted, the people pushing it haven't done a very good job of making their case.
What annoys me is that it will fall over, probably rightly so at this stage, and then money will be thrown at Carisbrook, which is just throwing good money after bad. No one will be brave enough to suggest that Dunedin have a decent venue for another few decades. As Legbreak notes, Carisbrook is just crap, and I've only taken my son there once.
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Oh - I forgot to add - as I said the ORFU is in the hole to the city for a couple of million - they've pointedly NOT committed to sign a contract, or to even play at the new stadium.
Recently however it turned out that they are counting on being able to to sell Carisbrook for a tidy sum (millions) - of course if we build a new stadium the old spot's not going to be a going concern, it's just a piece of industrial land covered in some expensive scrap metal (without the afternoon sun and sandwiched between the motorway and the Hillside Workshops it's not going to get housing)
There's a lot of people counting on feeding at this particular public trough
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Carsibrook is a shithole.
Yeah it is, but so are all stadiums. Like you LB I live in Welli and I have been to the caketin a number of times. It is also a shithole, just a well-placed one. Stadiums must have the highest depreciation rates of any buildings - give 'em a couple of years and they go to seed.
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SC,
While the Caketin is not perfect, and a soulless venue for cricket, it does have the advantage of being a proper stadium, and not a random collection of stands like all other venues in NZ. Eden Park being the worst for that.
And that means you can get from A to B easily without getting wet or windblown.
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Yeah it is, but so are all stadiums.
The MCG is not a shithole, it is a work of art. Living near it was a joy rather than a burden.
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Okay, so maybe I was bit harsh. I went to the SCG last year and it was extremely good, although the catering was awful!
The Caketin is tremendous when it is full. I went a few years back for a Hurricanes-Crusaders game (back when people cared about such things) and the place was buzzing. But when you go to any stadium when it is half-full or less and you can really see the cracks. The Caketin has the advantage of location, which is why I thought the waterfront stadium would have worked in AucklandBen- I haven't been to the MCG recently but went in the mid-90's and had similar misgivings. The Southern Stand was new then and already you could feel the lack of warmth in it's concrete.
I don't think anyone was too worried about Carisbrook a few years ago when Otago/ the Highlanders were regularly filling it for games.
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and that's exactly it - they (the ORFU) are not filling it and the powers that be blame the venue (the same one they've had since before they were little kids) when really the problem is more structural and has more to do with the deal they have with Sky, a changing society that doesn't treat rugby with the same awe (and have other things to do with their lives) , and, well, they keep losing, they need a better team no one wants to see them play if they lose
It's a business now, not even one that has to succeed. It may be that they're just going to have to accept that they've over reached and do what the rest if the economy has done and downsize a bit
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LOL Stuart, the only lack of warmth I felt was in watching the All Blacks getting beat. All right, the food wasn't great, but I wasn't there to eat. And even if they'd been serving champagne and caviar I'd still have shivered every time we dropped the ball.
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What annoys me is that it will fall over, probably rightly so at this stage, and then money will be thrown at Carisbrook, which is just throwing good money after bad. No one will be brave enough to suggest that Dunedin have a decent venue for another few decades. As Legbreak notes, Carisbrook is just crap, and I've only taken my son there once.
Yeah, it's a wasted opportunity all-round, marred by poor planning, pointless infighting and a lack of perspective and foresight. I used to go Carisbrook pretty regularly actually- I don't think I missed a home NPC game in 1998 and 1999, and went to several Super 12/14 matches (although, ironically, I kinda stopped going after my second year of Uni back in '03), and attended the few ODIs we got there (Astle had a habit of scoring centures at Carisbrook!)- but in its current state, it's very, very sorry indeed. The last time I went was for the test match back in 2005 (I think), and the state of the seating was pretty appalling.
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I had a grand time at the MCG. I went to watch India play the West Indies in a ODI, as I couldn't get tickets to see Australia play. The ground was a quarter full. I sat with some Indian supporters, and as the game drew to a conclusion with India well on top we congad all the way round the Great Southern Stand.
BTW every time they say "Great Southern Stand" does anyone else think of Icehouse? -
Apparently World Cup Final tickets are going to be NZD1,400 a pop.
How many NZers can afford that? But we're all (and especially Aucklanders) being taxed to subsidise the millionaires, government, corporate and journalistic liggers that will make up the NZ contingent.
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Rich, you're thinking the wrong way. We don't have the World Cup here so we can save money on airfares and get cheap tickets. It's to gouge foreigners. I'll still be watching on TV, and steering well clear of the entire district of Mt Eden.
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RoO,
If the tickets were cheaper then we’d be bailing it out even more.
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There was me thinking I'd never agree with John Banks about anything but behold!
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It's to gouge foreigners.
It worked well on the Lions tour.
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every time they say "Great Southern Stand" does anyone else think of Icehouse?
Yep.
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every time they say "Great Southern Stand" does anyone else think of Icehouse?
No, but I do when someone mentions Carisbrook.
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BTW every time they say "Great Southern Stand" does anyone else think of Icehouse?
Filked it, back in the day.
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I think when engaging in foreigner-gouging the idea is to *make* money.
Ripping people off and still losing money sounds like a lose-lose scenario.
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@ Emma
You'll need to explain "filked" to me.....
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