Random Play by Graham Reid

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Random Play: He's just an excitable boy . . .

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  • Rich of Observationz,

    Most of my friends are either horrified at the way National is "getting stuff done" without going through proper process, or in the case of the small number of National voters, have gone very quiet.

    It's ridiculous to have to suspend normal planning procedures just because the rugby authorities want us to. It's quite possible that a lot less people than anticipated will make it to the cup - upper class pommy stockbrokers haven't done exactly well in the last few months. We'll probably be able to fit everyone into an unmodified Eden Park.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4501 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    The timing of getting the world cup that everyone will have to travel a million miles to get to, just a few years after the world economy goes to the shitter, is mildly annoying.

    It's looking increasingly likely that the new Otago Stadium won't get the private financing required in time. In which case either it gets dropped, and a whole bunch of money has been spent for SFA, or the local bodies will be persuaded to cough up more. Neither of which is good.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6227 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    The timing of getting the world cup that everyone will have to travel a million miles to get to, just a few years after the world economy goes to the shitter, is mildly annoying.

    I have a funny feeling Boris Johnson is (quietly) eating his own weight in asprin on a daily basis. There's a hell of a lot of money being committed to the 2012 Olympics, and if you know where it's coming from you've got one on me. But I guess that's the risk you take when public money is being spent playing events promoter. I believe Idiot/Savant might describe it as privatising the benefits while socialising the risks.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12073 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Littlewood,

    It's looking increasingly likely that the new Otago Stadium won't get the private financing required in time. In which case either it gets dropped, and a whole bunch of money has been spent for SFA, or the local bodies will be persuaded to cough up more. Neither of which is good.

    It's amazing that in effect, it really hasn't progressed beyond the stage it was more than 18 months ago, when I wrote a feature on the debacle for Critic. I find that horribly depressing and in retrospect I think I was too kind on the pro-Stadium lobby. Of course the worst thing about it is that whatever happens, the Stadium won't be anything like what it was originally envisaged as- certainly nothing resembling a "multi-purpose" venue (way too small to be a Cricket ground, wrong shape for a soccer ground, probably not going to have the proper facilities for conferences, etc). I lost track of the "progress" but when I had a browse through the ODT the other day I couldn't believe how little had been achieved by any of the parties involved. (For or against that is). Mind you, the DCC and ORC have been at loggerheads for years.

    It's ridiculous to have to suspend normal planning procedures just because the rugby authorities want us to. It's quite possible that a lot less people than anticipated will make it to the cup - upper class pommy stockbrokers haven't done exactly well in the last few months. We'll probably be able to fit everyone into an unmodified Eden Park.

    Absolutely. There needs to be a serious reality check here- National's "damn the torpedoes" approach ("select committes? who needs those things?") in their first week has been disconcerting at best, downright insulting at worst.

    Today, Tomorrow, Timaru • Since Jan 2007 • 443 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Absolutely. There needs to be a serious reality check here- National's "damn the torpedoes" approach ("select committes? who needs those things?") in their first week has been disconcerting at best, downright insulting at worst.

    Now where was the outrage when it was almost unpatriotic to wonder whether the Rugby World Cup was really a deserving recipient of millions of dollars of corporate welfare?

    And as far as I can tell, Idiot/Savant was the only one who had a damn thing to say against the Major Events Management Bill -- which used Parliament to protect the commercial interests of sponsors.

    That did go to a select committee -- which received a total of three submissions.

    Still, now we've had the outrage at the death of democracy one can only hope select committee proceeding will get at least equal prominence as a dog getting "manly" cosmetic testicles after being neutered.

    "They're available in a special soft silicone now, if you do want that extra feel," he says.

    Nice to know, and it even explains the "feel" I get watching Three. Fake bollocks is about it.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12073 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Littlewood,

    Well, TV 3's slogan back in the day was " come home to the feeling", after all...

    Btw, Craig, I'm not too happy with that particularly happy about many things surrounding the preparation of the RWC, particularly that aspect that I/S highlighted there, among others.

    (Also, there's the more parochial issue of the "proposed stadium" in my former hometown, which as Kyle and I have alluded to, is something of a mess) I would go into more detail, but y'know, I've got no idea why I'm up at nearly 1am on a Tuesday. :) And I suppose my feelings in regards to National's first week as government belong in another thread.

    Today, Tomorrow, Timaru • Since Jan 2007 • 443 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    Fake bollocks . . .

    Scroll down a bit for the heavy-duty stuff:
    Equine & Bullshit?

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 3631 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Littlewood,

    On another note, did anyone ever figure out what "come home to the feeling" actually meant?

    Today, Tomorrow, Timaru • Since Jan 2007 • 443 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    The Dunedin stadium's been an interesting political issue - it's been pushed by the "tartan mafia" - the usual cartel of downtown good-old-boy business men - it was largely developed in secret and the detailed proposal presented to the city council and voted on in the space of 2 days - no time for research, no public hearings, just rammed through. The city council had done a public opinion survey (only sent to, largely male, heads of households, not at all good stats) - it came out slightly against or roughly even depending on the question.

    The opponents didn't get their act together early enough - at the local body election they put up 2 competing slates of candidates (who split the anti vote) - it didn't help that the loudest anti-voices were far on the rightish side of the spectrum - most people who were against the stadium couldn't bring them selves to vote there

    In that same election there was only 1 guy who actually came out in favour of it, the rest claimed to be on the fence or were against (at least according to their candidate statements and when interviewed in the paper) - in particular the incumbent good-old-boys got re-elected - and promptly claimed a mandate for a stadium.

    It wasn't quite a while until after the election, when the whole stitch up seemed a done deal that the anti-stadium people got their act together - held a packed out public meeting and started providing some real opposition - recently they commissioned an independent survey (actually done scientifically so its demographics could be validated) which was 70% against (73% if you corrected for the demographics). Then they went after the stadium in the zoning hearings - which is where we are now.

    (disclaimer: I'm a member of Stop the Stadium and made a submission to the recent hearings)

    The real problem isn't IMHO that Dunedin needs a $2-400M stadium - we have a perfectly good ground in Carisbrook, we just spent a lot of money on it - the real problem is in the economics of rugby - no one wants to go now that they play the games at night rather than in the afternoon, especially when you can watch it on your big screen TV at home with the fire on. Besides the days of supporting the provincial team because it was full of people you went to school with are long gone - that personal connection is gone - now it's just a bunch of guys playing in your name

    At the moment the local Rugby Union is in the hole to a couple of million to the city - they don't have the money and can't pay it - the solution to this shouldn't be to build them a big stadium - it doesn't really reward sensible fiscal behaviour.

    I can think of a simple solution to this - what they do in the US - black out local games unless they sell out (Sky could easily do it if they wanted). Even better, play local games in the afternoons like they used to - time shift them for the Aussies.

    As others have pointed out if you want to spend $400M ($188M+financing/opportunity cost over 20 years) to fix local rugby - then you'd actually be better off just giving $50 to everyone who goes to a Carisbrook game - it would actually be cheaper

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2201 posts Report Reply

  • James Francis,

    On another note, did anyone ever figure out what "come home to the feeling" actually meant?

    It's the standard vapid feel good but mean nothing fare which passes for branding.

    But now that you raise the question and now that I look at it closely, I figure we really really really don't want to go there.

    No, close that box fast.

    St John's, Newfoundland • Since Nov 2006 • 117 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    I'm sure there's an angsty dark NZ film about the past scheduled for 2030 that uses that deeply symbolically ....

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2201 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    On another note, did anyone ever figure out what "come home to the feeling" actually meant?

    If any potential branding slogan actually meant something, it would be immediately rejected. Impossible is nothing, okay?

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • FletcherB,

    So if I wanted to do something by a certain date, and I foresaw possible delays.... I think I'd get started as soon as possible.

    These people who forsee "possible" delays to their consents for certain parts of the "project'...... I sure hope they've actually started the process of getting them? I mean, that way, you could well be delayed and still complete on time....

    You wouldnt want to wait until only six months out, and then need to get special legislation passed because it just wasnt possible to complete the due process in time, would you?

    I mean, if you'd already started to get consent.... you might even know by now if there were going to be delays or not...

    West Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 801 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    Who was it that posted here a while back about symbols untied from any significance, flapping in the semiotic breeze?

    I think advertisers have moved wisely towards sustainability in generating slogans which can be re-used for retro value decades down the line without any inconvenient traces of meaning. A concept Starkish in its elegant simplicity.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1574 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    did anyone ever figure out what "come home to the feeling" actually meant?

    We're stil talking about fake dog testicles, right...?

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    We're stil talking about fake dog testicles, right...?

    The soft silicone version. No bitch would be fooled by those clunky polyester cheapies.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 3631 posts Report Reply

  • Lyndon Hood,

    . . . or whatever that Irish patron saint of manic urgency is called

    Damocles?

    Though it did set me thinking that, in terms of dangly-slicey things, climate change policy has been more like The Pit and the Pendulum.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1096 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    We're stil talking about fake dog testicles, right...?

    Rofflenui

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16996 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    Damocles was a figure from Greek legend. Full wiki here.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Thanks for the Frank Zappa link. His concert in the Auckland town hall in the mid 1970s was the best music event ever (in my opinion).

    Re the Eden Park thing. Catching the train into Wellington today I noticed that they advertise train fares for events at the stadium. For as little as $4 return you can get an adult train ticket to a stadium event - and from the station it's a short walk to the stadium entrance. No wonder the Wellington region supports events at the stadium so well (and why Aucklanders probably don't eg Beckham).

    But I see John Banks is cutting back on public transport development.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 2171 posts Report Reply

  • Heather Gaye,

    We're stil talking about fake dog testicles, right...?

    shambollock?

    Under the western motorwa… • Since Nov 2006 • 523 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Littlewood,

    The real problem isn't IMHO that Dunedin needs a $2-400M stadium - we have a perfectly good ground in Carisbrook, we just spent a lot of money on it - the real problem is in the economics of rugby - no one wants to go now that they play the games at night rather than in the afternoon, especially when you can watch it on your big screen TV at home with the fire on. Besides the days of supporting the provincial team because it was full of people you went to school with are long gone - that personal connection is gone - now it's just a bunch of guys playing in your name

    At the moment the local Rugby Union is in the hole to a couple of million to the city - they don't have the money and can't pay it - the solution to this shouldn't be to build them a big stadium - it doesn't really reward sensible fiscal behaviour.

    Those are all good points, and part of the wider picture worth discussing, but what has frustrated me most about the stadium issue in Dunedin is that what it was initially promoted as- "Dunedin's answer to the 'Cake Tin'", more or less- is just not going to happen, and chances are it never was in the first place. I do think Dunedin would be very well served by a proper multi-purpose venue (and I'm not just talking one that could be used for a variety of sports, but one that could also be used concerts, functions, etc) with proper ties to the University (e.g. it could be used by the Physio/Sports Med departments,etc ).

    And having it covered, to boot, would've just made sense in Dunedin, as the recent cricket test match has shown. (Also Dunedin has to get real and realise that the days of a 35,000 capacity stadium selling out even once a year, on average, are over as far as this city is concerned).

    The trouble unfortunately, is that as it stands, the current model seems to be replacing one white elephant (i.e. Carisbrook) with oneanother. Stadiums as a general rule don't make money, but wouldn't it be great if there were some foresight to combine a lot of services at once.

    Which is where they still seem to be now. After nearly 18 months of handwringing.

    Today, Tomorrow, Timaru • Since Jan 2007 • 443 posts Report Reply

  • Stewart,

    Foresight V Expediency - a fight with only 1 likely winner when it comes to local politics...

    Te Ika A Maui - Waitakere… • Since Oct 2008 • 572 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    well they've been pushing it as a "multi-purpose" stadium - but apart from rugby haven't really found someone else who will use it (it wont work for cricket) - they've suggested papal visits, big concerts (but national promoters, when asked, pointed out they couldn't fill it and wouldn't even think of booking acts that size for Dunedin).

    Let's fact it planning on 30,000 people attending anything in a city of ~100,000 is, well, a bit silly - sure you might fill it once every few years but, let's assume you can fill it 10 times a year - that's 300,000 bums on seats a year - assuming you get a 20 year mortgage (pushes the $188M cost to $400M at a good rate) - that's 20M/year or we're subsidising $66/bum/seat - you can see why it's not going to be economically viable if the people who attend are asked to pay for it

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2201 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    This is an old trick by a hyperventilating McCully: create a sense of urgency and give people only one option. We gunna legislate!

    We saw this when the clownish idea for a waterfront stadium was suddenly dumped on Auckland by That Other Guy. (Do we need to mention egress? Sixty thousand people leaving the place at the same time and not dispersing in different directions. Yep, that‘ll work!)

    I can't see much equivalence. The 'clownish' idea to build something that would have been incredibly awesome and totally appropriate for the World Cup, would absolutely have required a shitload of urgency and overriding of due process. It was a massive project.

    The alternative, building some pissly enhancement to our own local piece of shit that we embarrassedly have to call our premium sporting venue, is, as you say, on track and not in any need of great urgency. Particularly not when 'too much urgency' was exactly what derailed the alternative.

    I can fully understand leaving town if you live near Eden Park when the time comes. I expect the entire suburb to turn into a congested collection of drunks.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8737 posts Report Reply

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