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		<title>Public Address | Cafe | Southerly: The Science Behind The Three Most Important Words In The English Language</title>
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				<title>Public Address</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18480#post18480</link>
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						<p>Discussion from blog post.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 00:23:16 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Michael  Fitzgerald</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18481#post18481</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18481#post18481</guid>
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						<p>From the 'Profession' that brought the world 'Recoverd Memeory Syndrom'. <br />We now have voyeristic science, oneway mirrors and cameras recording (presumed) social intercourse.<br />Grecian 2000, a leather jacket, status over 18year olds, gidda dang dang dang ... you're own porn music starts when you walk into the lecture room,  and?</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 00:23:16 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Don Christie</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18483#post18483</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18483#post18483</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>most powerful emotions that we know of: grief, love, sexual jealousy</p></blockquote><p>and</p><blockquote><p>Next week on Public Address Science: the equally emotion-provoking subject of biofuels.</p></blockquote><p>Well, next week is going to have to be one hell of a show.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 09:40:34 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>David Haywood</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18493#post18493</link>
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						<p><strong>Don Christie</strong> wrote:</p><blockquote><p>... grief, love, sexual jealousy... biofuels... </p><p>Next week is going to have to be one hell of a show.</p></blockquote><p>You'd be surprised at the tearful and accusatory emails I get whenever I mention the subject of biofuels.  Prepare yourself for something along the lines of a Jerry?</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 11:35:23 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Andrew Stevenson</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18495#post18495</link>
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						<p><strong>Don Christie</strong> wrote:</p><blockquote><p>Next week on Public Address Science: the equally emotion-provoking subject of biofuels.</p><p>Well, next week is going to have to be one hell of a show.</p></blockquote><p>Can't wait for the fun to begin, but is there really that much emotion invested in biofuels? Should probably try to stay?</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 11:51:20 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Neil Morrison</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18519#post18519</link>
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						<p>I'm surprised that gender differences being shown to be a product of evolution rather than culture isn't generating as much heat as those biofuels.</p><p>Males do some strange things to show their genetic fitness &ndash; boy racing is a classic example of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lek_%28mating_arena%29" target="_blank">lekking</a>. But if you really want to impress?</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 15:38:55 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Michael  Fitzgerald</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18534#post18534</link>
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						<p>PSYC 104 and the parade various members of the profession passing by.<br />The relationship specialists (as above),<br />The bearded animal torturers, one with rodent like features and mannerisms, the other simian in appearance fascinated by the live twitchings of monkey brains.<br />The stoned neuro-psychologist.<br />Their work is primarily on themselves.?</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 20:00:59 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Reeves</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18554#post18554</link>
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						Michael---OK, that's what you think of the people you feel are involved, now back to the science. What did you think of that, and why?
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 10:38:37 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18572#post18572</link>
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						<p>At the risk of getting the thread back on topic (or being an anthro-bore, which has been known to happen) I found this really interesting. I just have one, quite big, question.</p><p>The biological basis for couple attraction in heterosexual couples all looks very sound from an evolutionary viewpoint. But?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 11:37:33 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Jeremy Andrew</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18608#post18608</link>
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						<blockquote><p>or do you have one from each perspective?</p></blockquote><p>Wow, that's the same question my mother-in-law (from waaayyy before the PC era) always asks  &ndash; "which one's the man?"</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 12:21:50 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Michael  Fitzgerald</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18631#post18631</link>
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						<p>We don't have the data from the study by which to judge the science.<br />Typically the subjects are students themselves with a small paid inducement. Canty is a consrvative establishment and as such the study risks this bias. <br />And what of the love that we won't study or publish that'll?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 13:11:04 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Neil Morrison</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18633#post18633</link>
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						<blockquote><p>If you have two females in a couple, do they both look for what women look for in a partner, both look for what people look for in a female partner, or do you have one from each perspective?</p></blockquote><p>I imagine that there would be a greater spread of mating?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 13:13:26 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Neil Morrison</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18655#post18655</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Canty is a consrvative establishment and as such the study risks this bias.</p></blockquote><p>In what way could men and women having evolved different mating strategies be considered as "conservative bias"?</p><blockquote><p>And what of the love that we won't study or publish that'll screws up the curve?</p></blockquote><p>Are you referring to?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 13:58:11 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18657#post18657</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Heterosexuality has, presumably, one main genetic cause, whereas homosexuality is most likely the result of a greater number of causes</p></blockquote><p>I'm genuinely not sure what you mean by that, Neil. Sexuality is a continuum, not a binary state. No matter what end of the continuum you're on, the genetic cause?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 14:01:52 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Michael  Fitzgerald</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18668#post18668</link>
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						<p>Neil a small and homogenious study will do that.<br />Yes &ndash; the love that dare not speak its name &ndash; apologies to whom ever wrote that one.<br />The bottom line is the interview didn't qualify the extent of the  study, its limitations etc. <br />We got what the Mills &amp; Boons version.?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 14:21:43 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Neil Morrison</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18671#post18671</link>
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						<blockquote><p>I'm genuinely not sure what you mean by that</p></blockquote><p>I'm making the assumption that for heterosexuals sexuality is more significantly related to the X and Y chromsomes. XX = have sex with men, XY = have sex with women. Whereas with homosexuality there seems to be a larger set of?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 14:27:08 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Joe Wylie</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18676#post18676</link>
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						<p>I have no idea what sort of reward Psych Canterbury offers participants in these tests, but chocolate fish seems to be a popular currency. Here, for example:</p><p><a href="http://www.ling.canterbury.ac.nz/experiments.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.ling.canterbury.ac.nz/experiments.shtml</a></p><p>I'd respectfully submit that such inducements can only skew the demographic, as it takes a certain kind of person to bite the?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 14:32:22 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18681#post18681</link>
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						<blockquote>I'm making the assumption that for heterosexuals sexuality is more significantly related to the X and Y chromsomes. XX = have sex with men, XY = have sex with women. Whereas with homosexuality there seems to be a larger set of possible causes. (I've just debated this, rather hotly, with?</blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 14:39:52 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rob Stowell</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18688#post18688</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Canty is a consrvative establishment and as such the study risks this bias.</p></blockquote><p>This is rolled out <em>ad naseum</em> as if it were beyond questioning. But what, other than it being endlessly repeated, do you base this assertion on?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 14:54:21 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Neil Morrison</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18703#post18703</link>
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						<p>I went looking for something concise and informative on this issue and found this &ndash; <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/10/health/10gene.html?ei=5090&amp;en=94e1f4330f9db14e&amp;ex=1333857600" target="_blank">Pas de Deux of Sexuality Is Written in the Genes</a></p><blockquote><p>Sexual orientation, at least for men, seems to be settled before birth. ?I think most of the scientists working on these questions are convinced that the?</p></blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 15:11:33 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>James Green</title>
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						<blockquote><p>The bottom line is the interview didn't qualify the extent of the study, its limitations etc.<br />We got what the Mills &amp; Boons version.</p></blockquote><p>That seems a fairly inane criticism. I don't recollect the last time I heard some science (with which I'm familiar) being reported in the media where that?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 15:49:56 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>David Haywood</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18741#post18741</link>
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						<p><strong>Michael Fitzgerald</strong> wrote:</p><blockquote><p>We got what the Mills &amp; Boons version.</p></blockquote><p><strong>James Green</strong> wrote:</p><blockquote><p>I don't recollect the last time I heard some science (with which I'm familiar) being reported in the media where that wasn't the case.</p></blockquote><p>I only have a nominal five minutes to do my science report, guys,?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 16:40:58 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Michael  Fitzgerald</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18768#post18768</link>
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						<p>Rob &ndash; That's where I went it is.</p><p>James &ndash; Just because it is the standard of reporting doesn't excuse it and if its noted we might get somewhere on it.</p><p>David &ndash;  my comment was directed towards the Radio Live interview. A link to the study would be interesting?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 17:36:38 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>James Green</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18774#post18774</link>
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						<strong>David</strong> &mdash; I absolutely accept that. It's most glaring when it's something with which you're familiar was my point. Last time I heard Fletcher speak, I'm pretty sure we came up with an equally plausible argument to explain at least some of his findings (which is why I'm not a?
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 17:56:34 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>David Haywood</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18792#post18792</link>
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						<p><strong>Michael Fitzgerald</strong> wrote:</p><blockquote><p>Just because it is the standard of reporting doesn't excuse it and if its noted we might get somewhere on it.</p><p>David &ndash; my comment was directed towards the Radio Live interview.</p></blockquote><p>Fair enough!  I actually know the bloke who does the Radio Live science programme, so?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 19:20:53 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18799#post18799</link>
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						<blockquote><p>So there are maybe some differences in how men and women get their sexuality.</p></blockquote><p>Thanks, Neil, that was interesting, and would tend to suggest that differences in gender brain chemistry would outweigh differences in sexual orientation.</p><p>It is, however, yet another study that ignores the existence of bisexual people. I?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 19:49:18 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18800#post18800</link>
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						<em>affects</em>  research. There goes my English degree...
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 19:50:29 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Michael  Fitzgerald</title>
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						<p>Is it a national desperation or a sycophantic self-supporting circle that any criticism must be fought to the death?</p><p>It was a lightweight interview with no detail by which to judge the veracity of the study. </p><p>David I take it you don't have any details by which to illuminate the?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 20:50:32 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>David Haywood</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18825#post18825</link>
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						<p><strong>Michael Fitzgerald:</strong></p><p>I'm quite happy for you to criticize, don't hold back &mdash; although I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, or why your ex-flatmate is being cited in this discussion.</p><p>I reported on the results of research by a top academic.  His work has been peer-reviewed.  I?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 21:26:43 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Don Christie</title>
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						<blockquote><p>Is it a national desperation or a sycophantic self-supporting circle that any criticism must be fought to the death?</p></blockquote><p>Way to go Michael.</p><blockquote><p>But if you have any suggestions as to how I can pack more information into around five minutes then please let me know.</p></blockquote><p>David, will you stop?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 21:49:46 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Michael  Fitzgerald</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18832#post18832</link>
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						<p>As I said above &ndash; a link to the study would be great. From that we can see the bias (everyone is biased). </p><p>Psycs do good work but they've dropped some clangers as well. Recovered Memory syndrom just one way they've ruined lives (not mine or anyone I know -?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 21:54:04 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Michael  Fitzgerald</title>
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						<p>Don that's the point &ndash; I don't think science has been brought to the public. Just proclaimations from on high. More detail would bring a greater understanding of science &amp; hopefully a raising of national consciousness of what constitutes good science (am I sounding geeky yet).<br />I did think the quip?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 22:05:33 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Neil Morrison</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18836#post18836</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18836#post18836</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Still, it's nice to know my reaction to Angelina Jolie and Toni Marsh is 'relatively indiscriminate'.</p></blockquote><p>Scientists have such a way with words.</p><p>I take your point about the invisibilty of bi-sexuality in all of this. I suppose one problem is that these sorts of studies reflect averages. On average?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 22:45:16 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>steven crawford</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18837#post18837</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18837#post18837</guid>
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						<p>Michael, I think I understand what David is getting at about the prose style.  Here is a sad but real article regarding <a href="http://www.menweb.org/falsemem.htm" target="_blank">Repressed memory</a>.</p><p>I can only assume by your comments :</p><blockquote><p>Recovered Memory syndrom just one way they've ruined lives</p></blockquote><p>That you have some sort of grievance.</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 22:56:21 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>David Haywood</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18838#post18838</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18838#post18838</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><strong>Michael Fitzgerald</strong> wrote:</p><blockquote><p>... a link to the study would be great.</p></blockquote><p>A link to Prof Fletcher's website was included in the <a href="http://www.publicaddress.net/system/forum,6,public_address_radio.sm" target="_blank">original PA radio entry</a> and transcript (under the 'Read more about Professor Garth Fletcher' heading).  You can find details of all his publications there...</p><p><strong>Michael Fitzgerald</strong> wrote:</p><blockquote><p>I?</p></blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 23:01:21 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Don Christie</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18839#post18839</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18839#post18839</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Don that's the point</p></blockquote><p>Oh I see. For a moment there I thought your point was that we were all a bunch of sycophants unable to participate in scientific discourse. At least we have cleared that up :-)</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 23:02:12 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Michael  Fitzgerald</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18841#post18841</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18841#post18841</guid>
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						Steven &ndash; horrendous stuff, hard to read. I'm reffering to the memmories attributed to infants, those who cannot talk. Talking is strongly linked to the time when memory forms. I can't remember anything earlier than when I started to speak and am therefore dubious anyone else can. The situation in?
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 23:32:22 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Michael  Fitzgerald</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18842#post18842</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18842#post18842</guid>
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						<p>Steven (I can't leave that one alone). <br />Having grown up in a couple of family homes and seen the impact of various forms of child abuse. I as we all do have the utmost sympathies for the victims. <br />I do believe there are a very few who have been lead?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 23:58:37 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>James Green</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18864#post18864</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18864#post18864</guid>
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						<p>Michael, at this point in proceedings, it seems worthwhile to take a detour into the philosophy of science.</p><p>The truth of a proposition depends on the weight of evidence for or against it. This balance of evidence changes every time a new study on a topic is conducted. Therefore, what?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 10:13:29 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rob Stowell</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18893#post18893</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18893#post18893</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>The truth of a proposition depends on the weight of evidence for or against it.</p></blockquote><p>Ouch. The 'philosophy' of 'science' must have changed almightily in the last 20 years. Or the 'snigger quotes' indicate we're talking about 'truth' not truth. Or I've repressed my memories of crucial elements in Popper,?</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 11:57:53 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>James Green</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18895#post18895</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=18895#post18895</guid>
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						I'm thinking of a relatively simple (but not 'naive') form of empiricism, rather than the darker depths of the philosophy of science, along with the scientific fact, which rather than being immutable, is very much open to change. Somewhat like the lovely argument that evolution is <em>only</em> a theory...
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				<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 12:12:24 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=19087#post19087</link>
				<guid>http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-the-science-behind-the-three-most/?p=19087#post19087</guid>
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						<p>I happened across this today, which might be, well, relevant to the tangent, anyway...</p><p><qoute> Researchers at the University of Warwick say sexual orientation, as well as gender, affects navigation skills, reports the Daily Telegraph.</p><p>They claim straight men perform better at map reading than gay men who in turn perform?</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2007 21:07:37 +1200</pubDate>
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